Australia v New Zealand - Sydney 16 Aug
- Thread starter Scrubber2050
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Train Without a Station
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I think Read will be more influential than Palu.
The other 7 forwards in the NZ pack do their grunt work properly so Read can be more effective playing looser.
Palu is not able to do that because he is required to too often punch it up in tight, hit rucks and do all the things he's supporters champion him for that aren't really a loose forwards job.
On Super Rugby form, Palu has been immense, but for the Wallabies, he will only be effective as the rest of our pack allow him to be.
The other 7 forwards in the NZ pack do their grunt work properly so Read can be more effective playing looser.
Palu is not able to do that because he is required to too often punch it up in tight, hit rucks and do all the things he's supporters champion him for that aren't really a loose forwards job.
On Super Rugby form, Palu has been immense, but for the Wallabies, he will only be effective as the rest of our pack allow him to be.
But what does falling ratings in Australia really have to do with the IRB?
Rugby, particularly at the breakdown has sped up markedly in the last 20 years.
- Use it or lose it at the maul rather than awarding a scrum to the team going forward.
- Having to roll away at the ruck and actually enforcing it.
Go back and watch some tests from around 2000 and often the ball stays in the breakdown for an eternity. There seems to be far less situations these days where the whole forward pack ploughs into the breakdown and the ball comes out incredibly slowly.
I think it is a folly to think that changing a few laws is going to swing the balance in favour of rugby union compared to league in Australia. The average mentality from NRL fans is that they hate union and it has very little to do with the actual game that is being played because I don't believe many of them are giving it the time of day.
How would it be a good plan for the IRB to try and focus changes on trying to improve the situation in Australia when our problem is entirely unique?
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
Only time will tell. I would predict the same but then again I agree Palu was more influential in the super rugby grand final.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
I'm not sure that we can extrapolate too much from the Tahs v Cru game into Bledisloe.
From memory, there are 7 Tahs and only 4 Cru in the respective run on sides for Saturday.
The Darkness are past masters at making the sum of the whole greater than the sum of the parts.
From memory, there are 7 Tahs and only 4 Cru in the respective run on sides for Saturday.
The Darkness are past masters at making the sum of the whole greater than the sum of the parts.
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
Kaino is an absolute beast defending the pick-and-go. I don't know how many times this year I saw Kaino drive forwards backwards around the ruck in classic pick-and-go-backwards tackles.
Ball in hand he almost always beats the first tackle even when caught flat-footed. His ability to stay on his feet and either get an off-load away or wait for support instead of going to ground and getting isolated is awesome.
And he just does everything with a matter-of-fact manner as if that's just how rugby is played by everyone......he's worth at least 1-and-a-half Fardy's...in my book anyway.
Ball in hand he almost always beats the first tackle even when caught flat-footed. His ability to stay on his feet and either get an off-load away or wait for support instead of going to ground and getting isolated is awesome.
And he just does everything with a matter-of-fact manner as if that's just how rugby is played by everyone......he's worth at least 1-and-a-half Fardy's...in my book anyway.
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Yeah the IRB couldn't give a stuff really. The game is booming everywhere but Australia unfortunately. It's not all doom and gloom, the world pull of rugby will always keep the game reasonably afloat here. Just look at players like Te'o and Inu who have left the NRL, not to Aus rugby but to rugby and they can pass on experiences to their mates. SBW, Folau, Burgess, Hunt will be at the RWC next year, the biggest names of the NRL.
You guys are comparing the wrong players. It's Palu/Kaino and Read/Fardy.
You guys are comparing the wrong players. It's Palu/Kaino and Read/Fardy.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
That is true. But super rugby is our only measure of a players form at the moment.
And you would have to agree that this is the best chance Palu and Hooper have of getting the best of McCaw and Read.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
Agreed. Although Fardy still is one of the better wallaby performers it just seems he has a impossible task ahead of him.
There are 5 Crusaders in the starting All Blacks forward pack.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Whichever way you look at it, @Bullrush is on the money with Kaino = 1.5 x Fardy.
The other loosies more or less cancel each other out.
Advantage is with The Darkness.
teach
Trevor Allan (34)
He might make it back it time. Hopefully his baby realises the importance of the occasion and arrives in a speedy fashion.
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Fardy's been critical the wide expansive game the Wallabies have brought in, he does the runs in the wide channel ala Read and is there to secure the breakdowns out wide. Let's not forget those tries he set-up Hooper last year on the EOYT. They were Read-esque. He won't be getting in a tight tussle with Kaino, in fact they'll probably barely tackle each other all game. Palu's the one that will be in Kaino's space.
teach
Trevor Allan (34)
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I can't believe that people will bang on about the effectiveness of a player who's not even playing tomorrow at the breakdown, when it's their only strength of their game yet be willing to say that Fardy is greatly inferior to Kaino.
Kaino has greater impact in his involvements, that's unchallenged. Fardy though has a strong breakdown presence, can be a strong wide runner and offloader, is great in the line out and gets through a shitload of work.
Considering we have Palu and Hooper with their impact points of difference in the back row, Fardy is the best player we could have at 6 to compliment them.
Kaino has greater impact in his involvements, that's unchallenged. Fardy though has a strong breakdown presence, can be a strong wide runner and offloader, is great in the line out and gets through a shitload of work.
Considering we have Palu and Hooper with their impact points of difference in the back row, Fardy is the best player we could have at 6 to compliment them.
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
Just thinking about it....Fardy could become very Kaino-esque. Kaino didn't start his international career nearly as well as Fardy has and it took him a little bit to become the player he is today as well as being shuffled around a little bit (like Fardy). Fardy's demeanour and manner on the field reminds me a bit of Kaino and he seems to have the same kind of 'hard man' edge to him. I wonder how they compare in terms of size??
Anyway - who knows...in a year or 3, we might be talking about Fardy the same way we talk about Kaino.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Not denying that Fardy is the best that we have for the job.
It is just that the best we have is not as good as that which the team from Mordor will be bringing to the contest.
It is just that the best we have is not as good as that which the team from Mordor will be bringing to the contest.
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
If anything happens to Fekitoa and Crotty ends up starting, I'll be having heart palpitations...LOL
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I remember Kaino routinely falling off tackles as recently as 2010 in test matches. Look at him in 2014 though. In fact look at what he even was in 2011.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
Are you saying if Kaino was Aussie you'd still pick Fardy because he compliments Hooper and Palu better?
Yes he does compliment Hooper and Palu nicely but at the end of the day you'd still take Kaino over Fardy anyday!
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