Australia v New Zealand - Sydney 16 Aug

[Braveheart81]

But a better backline than the crusaders were fielding.

Absolutely, but this discussion point started around me commenting that Palu was very effective in the Super Rugby final in getting over the advantage line and someone else commented that the All Blacks are a different team to the Crusaders.

Anyway - who knows.in a year or 3, we might be talking about Fardy the same way we talk about Kaino.

He better get cracking then! He's only a year younger than Kaino (30 vs 31).

 

[qwerty51]

Are you saying if Kaino was Aussie you'd still pick Fardy because he compliments Hooper and Palu better?

Yes he does compliment Hooper and Palu nicely but at the end of the day you'd still take Kaino over Fardy anyday!

I wouldn't play Kaino and Palu together.

 

[Bullrush]

I remember Kaino routinely falling off tackles as recently as 2010 in test matches. Look at him in 2014 though. In fact look at what he even was in 2011.

I thought he was hard done by in 2011 in terms of IRB Player of the Year....he was such a massive part of that RWC win. That tackle he made on Digby Ioane in the semi where he basically picked him up around the mid-riff right on the try line and carried him back a few meters is one of my enduring memories of that World Cup.

 

[Viking]

I wouldn't play Kaino and Palu together.

I can understand why. Just a difference in mind-set I guess. My mouth waters at the possibility of playing both together.

 

[Bullrush]

Absolutely, but this discussion point started around me commenting that Palu was very effective in the Super Rugby final in getting over the advantage line and someone else commented that the All Blacks are a different team to the Crusaders.



He better get cracking then! He's only a year younger than Kaino (30 vs 31).

Well, for Wallaby fans, hopefully it more like a year than 3...LOL

 

[Dan54]

So no Conrad for the ABs then huh? Well time to see how Fekitoa goes from the start.

 

[qwerty51]

I thought he was hard done by in 2011 in terms of IRB Player of the Year..he was such a massive part of that RWC win. That tackle he made on Digby Ioane in the semi where he basically picked him up around the mid-riff right on the try line and carried him back a few meters is one of my enduring memories of that World Cup.

Kaino was robbed in 2011 but then so was Pocock in 2010. Read should've got in 2012 and Etzebeth in 2013. They never seem to get it right.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Seb,

Good teams are all about balance. In Palu and Hooper with have two tackle breaking back rowers, one who can play quite tight and one that is best loose, who both are average to poor line out options. As they are our 2 best runners in the pack, we need a player to hit the rucks - That's where Fardy comes in. Palu is a great player and a big hitter, but he does not put a lot of pressure on at the breakdown to assist our 7 - That's where Fardy comes in again. Kaino for our back row, to quote Nick Cummins, would be "all sizzle, no steak" so to speak.

The All Blacks have McCaw who is a dominant breakdown player, an excellent back row line out jumper but not the ball runner that he was. In addition he was never a tackle buster. Then they have Read who is an excellent back row line out option and excellent wide runner. In that mix they need a tackle buster and big hitter. Kaino provides exactly what they need in that regard. The fact he is not an excellent line out jumper in the same calibre of Read doesn't matter as he would be the 5th choice to use and ultimately somebody from the back row has to stand at the very back and not be a target.

Even if Fardy was much better, I would have Kaino over him if I was the AB's. But for the Wallabies, with the team we have right now - especially when you consider that Skelton is the reserve lock and Higgers the reserve likely to come on at 8 , I'd have Fardy every day of the week and on Sunday.

 

[It is what it is]

TWAS, your team balance point is really evidenced in Link selecting both Skelton and Higginbotham together on the bench.
When Skelton comes on you basically lose a line out jumper, but when Higginbotham comes on at No 8 you gain a line out jumper.

 

[Viking]

Seb,

Good teams are all about balance. In Palu and Hooper with have two tackle breaking back rowers, one who can play quite tight and one that is best loose, who both are average to poor line out options. As they are our 2 best runners in the pack, we need a player to hit the rucks - That's where Fardy comes in. Palu is a great player and a big hitter, but he does not put a lot of pressure on at the breakdown to assist our 7 - That's where Fardy comes in again. Kaino for our back row, to quote Nick Cummins, would be "all sizzle, no steak" so to speak.

The All Blacks have McCaw who is a dominant breakdown player, an excellent back row line out jumper but not the ball runner that he was. In addition he was never a tackle buster. Then they have Read who is an excellent back row line out option and excellent wide runner. In that mix they need a tackle buster and big hitter. Kaino provides exactly what they need in that regard. The fact he is not an excellent line out jumper in the same calibre of Read doesn't matter as he would be the 5th choice to use and ultimately somebody from the back row has to stand at the very back and not be a target.

Even if Fardy was much better, I would have Kaino over him if I was the AB's. But for the Wallabies, with the team we have right now - especially when you consider that Skelton is the reserve lock and Higgers the reserve likely to come on at 8 , I'd have Fardy every day of the week and on Sunday.

Thats interesting. I am all about balance, Many of my posts support a balanced team. But then again you get a special player like Kaino who I feel can allow an exception to the rule.

I feel Kaino could do anything Fardy would do (plus more). Maybe to a lesser extent but still to a satisfactory level. For example he is tall enough to be a line-out option, he has pilfered before etc.

 

[Train Without a Station]

It Is What It Is, I think that Fardy becomes even more critical to the balance when Skelton and Higginbotham come on. Though different, they are impact players in their involvements in the way Kaino is.

 

[qwerty51]

So we're all expecting Skelton for Carter and Higginbotham for Palu?

 

[Viking]

It Is What It Is, I think that Fardy becomes even more critical to the balance when Skelton and Higginbotham come on. Though different, they are impact players in their involvements in the way Kaino is.

Well if we are talking hypothetical then Kaino would on the bench at least over Higgers. If not starting over Fardy.

 

[KOB1987]

Here's an interesting and highly unlikely hypothetical:

Assume Palu goes down after 10 mins, so Higgers comes on at 8..then sometime thereafter Higgers goes down as well..do you bring Skelton on and move Carter to flanker, Hooper to 8, or do you bring Hanson on and move Charles to flanker..or Hanson straight to flanker?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Surely that would be the initial plan Qwerty. Higgers is an improvement in the line out over Palu but Skelton is a massive drop from Carter.

I'm sure Link wouldn't be married to that plan though.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Big Willie straight to 8 Kob.

 

[Viking]

Here's an interesting and highly unlikely hypothetical:

Assume Palu goes down after 10 mins, so Higgers comes on at 8..then sometime thereafter Higgers goes down as well..do you bring Skelton on and move Carter to flanker, Hooper to 8, or do you bring Hanson on and move Charles to flanker..or Hanson straight to flanker?

Hooper to 8. Carter to flanker.

 

[KOB1987]

Hooper to 8. Carter to flanker.

That's what I'd do too, I reckon we'll see Carter in 6 at some stage in the future..

 

[KOB1987]

Would mean Fardy at open side but with Hooper only a step or 2 behind him it wouldn't be a big drama..

 

[Train Without a Station]

If the scrum is under pressure Hooper with the shortest wingspan in the pack would struggle at 8.