Australia v New Zealand - Sydney 16 Aug

[Viking]

Cooper's form when he last played for the wallabies was great. (EOYT 2013) His last game against the AB's in NZ was near perfect. His kicking was great too. Much better then Foley's. As mentioned before his combination with To'omua is one of the strongest we've seen in a long time. I would be getting him back into the squad as quickly as I could. Of coarse I wouldn't rush him back this rugby championship but definitely should be considered a bench option for EOYT.

It would be hard on KB (Kurtley Beale) to miss out at Coopers expense, but it would be best for Aus rugby and the wallabies getting Cooper back in as soon as possible.

Just my opinion.

 

[Tip]

TWAS has nailed it. Quade was Vice captain of the Wallabies last year. By the sounds of it, Quade (&Genia) will have 7 games in the NRC to regain fitness & form before the 3rd Bledisloe cup game. (What a boon for the NRC!) http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-speight-on-track-for-nrc-20140801-zzgxh.html

Foley was average at best against France. Unfortunately a Super Rugby title gives one amnesia. I am very worried about our defense in the 10 channel.

I also doubt we'll be seeing AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13 just yet (*sadface*). He may be a little bit wasted at 14, but that's only if he stands on the chalk all day!AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) needs to be Digby-esque in injecting himself into the action.
I can't see McKenzie playing him there until Speight is available. Moving him into 13 means we'll have to play 2 players on the wing who's preferred position is 12... (and NO, Tomane is not fit enough yet for a Bledisloe encounter)

 

[Marcelo]

I'm very concerned about Nathan Charles

Can he handle the pressure of playing his first starting game against ABs?

Mmm...

 

[KOB1987]

I'm very concerned about Nathan Charles

Can he handle the pressure of playing his first starting game against ABs?

Mmm.

More often than not, debutants rise to the occasion and pull out a blinder.

He was definitely in the top third of hookers in the whole super comp, he'll get through it ok

 

[Marcelo]

Cooper's form when he last played for the wallabies was great. (EOYT 2013) His last game against the AB's in NZ was near perfect. His kicking was great too. Much better then Foley's. As mentioned before his combination with To'omua is one of the strongest we've seen in a long time. I would be getting him back into the squad as quickly as I could. Of coarse I wouldn't rush him back this rugby championship but definitely should be considered a bench option for EOYT.

It would be hard on KB (Kurtley Beale) to miss out at Coopers expense, but it would be best for Aus rugby and the wallabies getting Cooper back in as soon as possible.

Just my opinion.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaahhh, Cooper's performance on the last EOYT was perfect!

His performance against ABs in Dunedin was amazing:

 

[Train Without a Station]

Here comes the QLD cavalry now!

If Bernard Foley has a couple of very good games, then my point becomes moot, which based on the business end of the season, could very well happen. But the onus is on Foley to take the jersey whilst he has the opportunity, not on Quade to regain it due to incumbency as some claim.

If Bernard Foley hits form better than Quade did in 2013 that will be great for Australian rugby. If he doesn't, we know the guy that got the job done well last year will be fit for the back end of the international season.

 

[Pfitzy]

TWAS has nailed it. Quade was Vice captain of the Wallabies last year. By the sounds of it, Quade (&Genia) will have 7 games in the NRC to regain fitness & form before the 3rd Bledisloe cup game. (What a boon for the NRC!) http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-speight-on-track-for-nrc-20140801-zzgxh.html

Foley was average at best against France. Unfortunately a Super Rugby title gives one amnesia. I am very worried about our defense in the 10 channel.

Well that is a very compelling argument... don't mind if I leave this here do you?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Pfitzy, why do reasonable arguments like mine always have to come down to petty provincial bias?

 

[Braveheart81]

Jumped the gun a bit earlier.

The Wallabies 23 for the first test will be announced next Tuesday at 12pm.

Whilst I hope Genia and Cooper do really well in the NRC it strikes me as unlikely that they will get selected in the Wallaby 23 for the 3rd Bledisloe unless there are injuries or the team is really struggling. They will surely both be on the EOYT though.

If Foley doesn't lock himself into the 10 jersey, Beale will get a crack during the Rugby Championship.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I'd actually like to hope under Link we have moved on from rushing back a few of the anointed ones under all circumstances and now back the team as a whole to perform, even if a few of those links in the chain aren't the first choice.

If that means Quade hasn't had the opportunity to recover from his injury and get some NRC game time under his belt and therefore doesn't play in the 3rd Bledisloe than so be it.

I will say I'd rather have a 100% Foley than a 75% Quade anyway.

 

[cyclopath]

Foley was average at best against France. Unfortunately a Super Rugby title gives one amnesia. I am very worried about our defense in the 10 channel.

I don't have the stats on my work computer, but I seem to recall looking some over on my home computer last week, and Foley's tackle completion rate was actually pretty bloody good (I think). I appreciate there are factors such as where he plays in defence that might influence this, but he was not the apparent turnstile you seem to be suggesting. I think.
When is Cooper due to play again, and does anyone have any inside word on how his rehab has been going? I will be intrigued to see how he and Genia come out after their "breaks". I would expect both to be pumped up and raring to go with points to prove, and that has gotta be good for us.

 

[Braveheart81]

That SMH article suggested both would return around mid September to the NRC so potentially they only miss the first couple of games.

 

[Tip]

Well that is a very compelling argument. don't mind if I leave this here do you?

In fact, I do.

Instead of dismissing reasonable arguments as provincial bias, how about you come up with some counter-arguments?

Could you please read TWAS's post again, in which I was agreeing with, and then read mine. Because it's pretty clear you didn't.

Let me spell it out for you: Quade has 7 NRC games to regain fitness and form to push his case for the 3rd Bledisloe and EOYT.

Foley was very average in the Tests against France and missed ~15 tackles throughout the series. Therefore I am worried about our defense in the 10 channel against the Darkness. What numnut wouldn't be?

Firstly, enlighten me, what exactly don't you agree with here?

Secondly, Argue the point, not the man.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Scrubber "Foley is the incumbent" is a stupid statement.

Laurie Weeks is the "Incumbent" reserve tighthead. Is he even in the squad? No. Why? Because he was only the "incumbent" due to injury.

Foley was an injury replacement in the starting line up in June. That doesn't mean the jersey is automatically his. Continuing his great Super Rugby form into the Rugby Championship will.

Calling somebody the incumbent in a position is only relevant if they are the first choice if all players are fit. Being an injury replacement gives a player an opportunity to become the first choice though.

Nearly laughed myself off the shithouse when I read this post.

Stupid, stupid, you say - hereis the definition, just for such an "ignorant" statement
in·cum·bent
[in-kuhm-buh

nt] Show IPA
adjective
1.
holding an indicated position, role, office, etc., currently: the incumbent officers of the club.

Based on your logic Michael Hooper would not be classed as the incumbent because Pocock is injured. Think most posters on here would agree

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

QC (Quade Cooper) is out of the frame for now and pretty much irrelevant to the discussion. If he recovers soon and has a good NRC then he'd be considered, same with Genia. For the moment Foley is our best option at and should stay there unless he proves to be not suitable. I personally think he's really grown into the job this season and think he'll improve more through the RC. He's our best option right now and that's the end of it for mine. Any discussion about QC (Quade Cooper) is purely hypothetical IMHO.

 

[cyclopath]

In fact, I do.

Instead of dismissing reasonable arguments as provincial bias, how about you come up with some counter-arguments?

Could you please read TWAS's post again, in which I was agreeing with, and then read mine. Because it's pretty clear you didn't.

Let me spell it out for you: Quade has 7 NRC games to regain fitness and form to push his case for the 3rd Bledisloe and EOYT.

Foley was very average in the Tests against France and missed 15+ tackles throughout the series. Therefore I am worried about our defense in the 10 channel against the Darkness. What numnut wouldn't be?

Firstly, enlighten me, what exactly don't you agree with here?

Secondly, Argue the point, not the man.

You can't be very average. By definition, it's the mean. You're average, or not. Like unique.
The stats I was looking at were Super rugby season, and I don't have them at hand, but I also don't have the Test ones either. I accept, I may have recalled them incorrectly. Sorry if so.
Maybe we play McCabe at 10? He'll shore it up. But in all seriousness, of our realistic current options, given McKenzie seems set on To'omua at 12, who would be better?
As you were!!

 

[KOB1987]

I'm still pushing my Beale on the wing barrow..I know link has him down as a fly half in the squad currently, but assuming QC (Quade Cooper) does eventually work his way back in to the squad then that's going to make it even harder for Beale to get in the starting side. He's too good to not have somewhere in the team, and he's the walk up 15 if something happens to Folau, so looking forward to the RWC if he is going to be in the starting XV as a permanent fixture his future is as a back three player..no time like the present, especially given the current lack of experienced wingers.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I am not saying QC (Quade Cooper) will not get the 10 jersey back at all. But he will have to take it, either by playing very well and Foley not performing as well. Its just the way it is.

Same goes for Pocock. Hooper would have to be playing shithouse (and i dont see that happening at all for years and years) and Pocock playing out of his skin. I don't think Pocock will get the 7 jersey off Hooper at all. To add to that Poey will find it hard to get the big $$$ top up from the ARU, next time around....

 

[Train Without a Station]

Scrubber clearly you ignored my last sentence which further explained my statement. But if you want to debate the technicalities of what is literally an incumbent then go for it.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Scrubber two completely different situations.

Quade has a 3 month injury, and Foley has replaced him and is yet to play well enough for Australia to keep that place if Quade is fit. Quade does not have to take it off Foley. Why? Because based on Foley's form so far, if Quade was fit today, he's be back in.

David Pocock has spent the best part of 2 seasons injured with the same injury. Michael Hooper has won the John Eales medal and become the test captain. Pocock has to take the position off Hooper because Hooper has performed well enough to be considered first choice in the position when he got his opportunity. Hooper has stepped up dramatically and there are doubts of Pocock's ability to come back as good as he was.

Let's not compare the two again.