Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Just the thought of Moggy in the Green and Gold again scares the shit right outa me. Fuck this game is against the ABs
Australia v New Zealand - Sydney 16 Aug
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T
Train Without a Station
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Cooper was one of our best test performers in late 2013 from the SA tour to the EOYT. His partnership with To'omua was one of the strongest 10-12 partnerships we have had in some time.
In June even Waratahs supporters were saying Foley is struggling at 10 at international level.
Players can improve certainly so I'm not saying Foley can't nail down a spot, but to say Cooper will struggle to get back into the 23 is ignoring the test form against an average side only 6 weeks ago. Foley has to show he can translate his good Super Rugby finals form into test form, something he previously hasn't quite done.
In June even Waratahs supporters were saying Foley is struggling at 10 at international level.
Players can improve certainly so I'm not saying Foley can't nail down a spot, but to say Cooper will struggle to get back into the 23 is ignoring the test form against an average side only 6 weeks ago. Foley has to show he can translate his good Super Rugby finals form into test form, something he previously hasn't quite done.
When is Cooper likely to get back into the matchday 23 though? It's really hard to see a guy who has played zero rugby since mid May being rushed back into the side.
I think he'll go on the EOYT but he'll be waiting for an opportunity to present itself whether through injury or a substantial drop in form.
He has two players ahead of him in excellent form right now who are both likely to get multiple cracks at the 10 jersey before Cooper is considered.
I'd be surprised if he's added to the Wallaby squad after his first NRC game. Does anyone know when that is likely to be?
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Cooper will have to prove himself again. Foley is the incumbant. We are winning ATM.
Foley will have a crack and doesn't rely on the "X" factor that Quade has and he doesn't. Foley seems to be a relatively conservative 10 that relies on his outside men to do the real damage. We seem to now have those blokes out wide to take advantage of quick ball.
No doubt Quade will be in the wings awaiting Foley's failing. Whether that happens remains to be seen but ATM I'm am OK with Foley.
Foley will have a crack and doesn't rely on the "X" factor that Quade has and he doesn't. Foley seems to be a relatively conservative 10 that relies on his outside men to do the real damage. We seem to now have those blokes out wide to take advantage of quick ball.
No doubt Quade will be in the wings awaiting Foley's failing. Whether that happens remains to be seen but ATM I'm am OK with Foley.
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Train Without a Station
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Scrubber "Foley is the incumbent" is a stupid statement.
Laurie Weeks is the "Incumbent" reserve tighthead. Is he even in the squad? No. Why? Because he was only the "incumbent" due to injury.
Foley was an injury replacement in the starting line up in June. That doesn't mean the jersey is automatically his. Continuing his great Super Rugby form into the Rugby Championship will.
Calling somebody the incumbent in a position is only relevant if they are the first choice if all players are fit. Being an injury replacement gives a player an opportunity to become the first choice though.
Laurie Weeks is the "Incumbent" reserve tighthead. Is he even in the squad? No. Why? Because he was only the "incumbent" due to injury.
Foley was an injury replacement in the starting line up in June. That doesn't mean the jersey is automatically his. Continuing his great Super Rugby form into the Rugby Championship will.
Calling somebody the incumbent in a position is only relevant if they are the first choice if all players are fit. Being an injury replacement gives a player an opportunity to become the first choice though.
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
The juxtaposition of these two statements is interesting - considering Mogg has been bitched of late.
A mutterer
Chilla Wilson (44)
foley has form and has really built that over the second half of the season.
he has done the job for province and national teams.
those on the 'quade train' should be careful about displaying their confirmation bias in public ......
he has done the job for province and national teams.
those on the 'quade train' should be careful about displaying their confirmation bias in public ......
All will be revealed in less than an hour and a half.
Will be interesting (or possibly completely uninteresting if there are no surprises).
I tend to think we'll see one or two unforced changes because I think McKenzie likes to make it clear that form has a big influence on his selections. Most likely one for me is Phipps starting.
Will be interesting (or possibly completely uninteresting if there are no surprises).
I tend to think we'll see one or two unforced changes because I think McKenzie likes to make it clear that form has a big influence on his selections. Most likely one for me is Phipps starting.
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Ow fuck. So much for a "cork"!
All this inference that Quade will walk back in is amusing. I hope he gets onto the park in the NRC (along with Genia) and helps put some real pressure on the incumbents who fully deserve their spot.
Whether Link thinks rushing Quade back is up to him, but Foley was instrumental in securing the Waratahs their title - beyond the goal kick, and made valuable contributions all over the park.
I've been watching the game back in fits and starts and while Beale seems to be running the whole show, Foley is calling just as many, and is seeing the holes too. That long ball of Beale's was all Foley's work off the ball, and he got through a mountain of work on defense too. Beale threw some key passes but to say he was running the whole show is a bit rich.
Scoey
Tony Shaw (54)
Yeah just threw it out there. I would realistically go with Tomane and one of Horne or McCabe. I just wonder what Mogg might've been like at Test level had he been trialled on the wing and not at the back. But really, it was more of an out loud ponderance.
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Train Without a Station
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Why is it amusing to discuss the best test flyhalf performer we have had recently as to when he would be back, when his replacement is yet to stamp his mark at international level, and seemed to struggle at times only 6 weeks ago against a well beaten French team? How is that amusing at all?
I think Foley was the best choice at 10 for June.
I think he's still the best choice at 10 for the Rugby Championship disregarding his improvement since even.
I think his Super Rugby Finals form showed he has the ability to be better at international level than he was in June.
But he still needs to actually do that before he is our first choice 10 in all conditions.
I think Foley was the best choice at 10 for June.
I think he's still the best choice at 10 for the Rugby Championship disregarding his improvement since even.
I think his Super Rugby Finals form showed he has the ability to be better at international level than he was in June.
But he still needs to actually do that before he is our first choice 10 in all conditions.
T
Train Without a Station
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Charles and Hanson are the incumbent hookers now. Geez Moore and TPN are going to have to work hard to get their spots back!
I agree TWAS. I just don't think Cooper will be rushed in after such a long layoff.
It also needs to be considered that none of our fly half options have excelled against South Africa and New Zealand.
If Foley is marked down because the French aren't world beaters then it's hard to consider that Cooper put himself a long way ahead of the competition with wins over Italy, Ireland, Scotland and Wales on the EOYT.
We've got three guys clearly vying for the 10 jersey and currently Foley and Beale are fit and in form and Cooper will have been out for more than three months when he returns to the NRC.
I agree that any talk of an incumbent beyond that word purely meaning they played there in the most recent test is silly.
I don't think any of the three are close to having a mortgage on the jersey. Foley and Beale seem like they're in the box seats because they are likely to get multiple tests to strut their stuff before Cooper even comes back into consideration.
It also needs to be considered that none of our fly half options have excelled against South Africa and New Zealand.
If Foley is marked down because the French aren't world beaters then it's hard to consider that Cooper put himself a long way ahead of the competition with wins over Italy, Ireland, Scotland and Wales on the EOYT.
We've got three guys clearly vying for the 10 jersey and currently Foley and Beale are fit and in form and Cooper will have been out for more than three months when he returns to the NRC.
I agree that any talk of an incumbent beyond that word purely meaning they played there in the most recent test is silly.
I don't think any of the three are close to having a mortgage on the jersey. Foley and Beale seem like they're in the box seats because they are likely to get multiple tests to strut their stuff before Cooper even comes back into consideration.
ACT Crusader
Jim Lenehan (48)
I think KB (Kurtley Beale) is the perfect bench option for the Wallabies right now. To my mind it seems a no brainer given Foley and To'omua are in very good form and both provide what the Wallabies need in those positions. To'omua is basically Matt Giteau circa 2002-03, an excellent attacking player (but more robust) and a better defender.
The bench has been a critical reason why the ABs have had decent success in the last decade. OZ need that impact and versatility and KB (Kurtley Beale) gives you a test ready 10, 12 and 15 option when needed. He's not a wing or a centre, but that allows someone like McCabe or Horne to be on the bench also.
The bench has been a critical reason why the ABs have had decent success in the last decade. OZ need that impact and versatility and KB (Kurtley Beale) gives you a test ready 10, 12 and 15 option when needed. He's not a wing or a centre, but that allows someone like McCabe or Horne to be on the bench also.
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Read my post again: it is amusing that you Queenslanders think he'll just walk back in, when Foley is proving that he's a good man for the job, and Beale is right there too.
I guess Foley hasn't "stamped his mark" in the three Tests he's started at 10 so far, but the underlying tone of the posts that you and your little maroon mates are putting about, is that he's just holding the jersey for Quade.
Note that I back Quade 100%, and cheer him on like I would anyone wearing the Gold Jersey. He'll be burning with desire to get back into the team and try to get his jersey back, and that is a great thing for Australian rugby to have some depth at flyhalf.
T
Train Without a Station
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I didn't say he'll "just walk back in". I merely noted that he had performed quite well, from our SA tour last year, was vice captain and we developed a really good 10-12 combination. My objection was to the comment that he would find it hard to get back into the 23. Currently, after a 3 test series I fail to see how that is the case. Foley gets the opportunity to change that though, as is the case with injuries.
I'd back him likely to come back when ready - that includes physically fit and if it's during the RC, match fit with the NRC to now play in. But as noted, Foley gets the first opportunity to change that.
I'd back him likely to come back when ready - that includes physically fit and if it's during the RC, match fit with the NRC to now play in. But as noted, Foley gets the first opportunity to change that.
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