Australia v Italy, Suncorp Stadium, 24th June 2017 @ 3:00pm

[fatprop]

too true
Will this improve with 4 teams? Still easier to fill a roster with Dean Mumms than the next big thing: a known quantity versus potential.
The problem is that you have to wonder about the talent spotters. I wonder how much effort was wasted on the fascination with what a bloke like Skelton might be but, predictably, never was.

You need a balance of guys like Mumm are good to have in a team, and Skelton? I think he was the Tahs best lock this season. He is just getting there, he may have been brought through too quickly, but he is becoming an effective, quality lock. Half our challenge is not being prepared to let guys develop and grow. pigs aren't backs, they require time and patience.

 

[fatprop]

So was Kuridrani the back which let the backline down in workrate and cleanouts and everyone else performed to the required standard?

Nope, his issue was total lack of punch and workrate

You're really going to try and argue the Wallabies applied good game management against The Scots?

That they took the best options available, that the kicking options taken were the right ones, that they Wallabies found an effective counter to the Scotland rush defence? What was the penalty count, how many times did the wallabies get a kick to the corner

The issue was lack of getting over the gain line and no quick ball, we were off the pace all game

It was Scotland for fuck sake, Australia is supposed to be a top tier nation, losing at home to Scotland in good conditions is absolutely unacceptable.

Not happy with any loss, but we are rank 3 and the Scots 5, we aren't that far better than them to gift them a free 14 points head start

 

[TOCC]

Nope, his issue was total lack of punch and workrate

Nah, He made more carries, more tackle busts, more clean breaks, beat more defenders then anyone else in the backline..

Il agree he didn't have a great game nor do anything of note, but targeting his efforts against Scotland when so many other backs underperformed is clutching at straws.

The issue was lack of getting over the gain line and no quick ball, we were off the pace all game

You mean taking the wrong options, passing to players In poor positions, failing to maintain tempo when needed? Sounds an awful lot like game management...

 

[TOCC]

Not happy with any loss, but we are rank 3 and the Scots 5, we aren't that far better than them to gift them a free 14 points head start

Ah please... this was a Scotland team missing their 3 star players to the British and Irish Lions and a further handful of frontline players out with injury, not only that playing at the end of a long season and away from home.

Had this been a test in November in wet conditions, I may have understood a loss, but in Australia, with them missing their best players, in perfect conditions.. there's no making excuses for that

 

[fatprop]

You mean taking the wrong options, passing to players In poor positions, failing to maintain tempo when needed? Sounds an awful lot like game management.

We have a different understanding of game management, all that stuff to me is down to effort and accuracy, we had very little of either and played off the back foot for most of the game

 

[Brumby Runner]

TK comes in for a lot of criticism from a few Tahs' fans here. He was one of the few average to good performers last week, but did seem to be below full pace with ball in hand. He didn't have his usual hard running game but assuming there's no injury problem he wasn't the poorest performer warranting replacement this match.

And before I am accused of Brumbies' bias, I have posted earlier on this thread that imo Hodge should have been tried at 13 before bringing back an underperforming Horne.

 

[No4918]

Foley, Genia (how many minutes did the sub get again despite a poor showing?) and Folau weren't ever going to be dropped. Hunt has been good. That leaves the wings and TK. Nabuli is gone. DHP probably could be but wingers are in short supply.

So, sorry TK, Cheika said changes would be made and you're the unlucky one this week.

 

[TSR]

I don't think Hanigan has shown enough physically as I would like, but neither does Fardy excel at getting over that gain line or making dominant tackles

It seems clear that Fardy's strength, attacking the ball at the tackle area, isn't a focus for the Wobs. They fan out and don't commit units unless there is a dominant tackle and then they counter ruck. They have said one of the focuses is cutting out penalties and attacking the ball at the breakdown is a magical penalty fest.

Look at Latu in the Super, he is a leader in turnovers, but he is also up there in penalties conceded

Now I am not sure if that is the best option, but I can understand the approach

Fair observation FP.

To be honest, I can understand the retention of Hanigan, even though I'd personally prefer Higgers & Timani.

But The inclusion of Dempsey & Horne has zero justification, IMO.

Maybe if Dempsey wasn't injured he'd be starting for the Tahs and he would have form to justify his inclusion. But, as it is he has neither form, nor experience, nor past reputation. What's wrong with demanding these young guys actually convert some of their potential before handing the a test jersey. Haven't we seen enough of these 'next big things' never go on to realise that promoting them ahead of their actual level of performance is not an effective strategy.

As for Horne, he has been a reliable and whole hearted test player. After continual injury set backs early in his career I was happy to see him kick on and become a valued test regular. To some degree I can accept his selection on the basis of experience. But he is now slower and a less reliable defender. There are better players, with significantly more upside fit and available. On balance I don't think there is justification for his selection.

I hope they prove me wrong.

 

[TOCC]

I'l say what I've been saying all year...

Folau should be on the wing and either Hunt or DHP at fullback..

Yes Folau is a talented athlete, a great player yes, but I don't think he is a great fullback, i think his ability at fullback is a hindrance to the team, his passing game isn't great so he doesn't link up well on kick returns, his own kicking game is average and limited in variety, his strength is his running game and aerial skills but that leaves him quite predictable in what he will do from a kick return.

Put him on the wing and he can still do everything he does well..

 

[fatprop]

Ah please. this was a Scotland team missing their 3 star players to the British and Irish Lions and a further handful of frontline players out with injury, not only that playing at the end of a long season and away from home.

Had this been a test in November in wet conditions, I may have understood a loss, but in Australia, with them missing their best players, in perfect conditions.. there's no making excuses for that

you have a different impression as to where the Wobs are at the moment than I do it appear.

I expect Aus to be ranked 4th or even 5th by the end of the Rugby championship, we aren't that good at the moment as our Super rugby efforts demonstrate

 

[TOCC]

If we maintain current selection policies and game plans we certainly will be, but they don't have to be

 

[fatprop]

Fair observation FP.

To be honest, I can understand the retention of Hanigan, even though I'd personally prefer Higgers & Timani.

I think Timani would have definitely been first choice, if he was fit, unfortunately he wasn't.

Dempsey? we have a long history of giving younglings bench minutes in these and the November tests. Often it is all they ever get, sometimes it is the start of a long and successful career

I would have preferred to see others playing out of their skins and demanding their opportunity first.

Horne? He is a placeholder for one game to me, a safe option and a kick up the team's pants

 

[cyclopath]

So was Kuridrani the back which let the backline down in workrate and cleanouts and everyone else performed to the required standard?

You're really going to try and argue the Wallabies applied good game management against The Scots?

That they took the best options available, that the kicking options taken were the right ones, that they Wallabies found an effective counter to the Scotland rush defence? What was the penalty count, how many times did the wallabies get a kick to the corner

It was Scotland for fuck sake, Australia is supposed to be a top tier nation, losing at home to Scotland in good conditions is absolutely unacceptable.

We shouldn't keep dismissing Scotland like this. I agree we really should beat Scotland at home, but they are not mugs, and haven't been for a while. And I really think we are not at the upper floors in the top tier, and haven't really been for a while, consistently. Sadly, we are far closer to Scotland than anything higher.

 

[cyclopath]

TK comes in for a lot of criticism from a few Tahs' fans here. He was one of the few average to good performers last week, but did seem to be below full pace with ball in hand. He didn't have his usual hard running game but assuming there's no injury problem he wasn't the poorest performer warranting replacement this match.

And before I am accused of Brumbies' bias, I have posted earlier on this thread that imo Hodge should have been tried at 13 before bringing back an underperforming Horne.

Who are the few, or is this yet another "my impression plucked out of thin air" posts? Don't sling bias claims at others and then hide behind your straw man, when really, your most trenchant leaning is against anything or anyone remotely to do with the Tahs. Maybe you could say " a few posters" rather than what you did?

 

[TOCC]

We shouldn't keep dismissing Scotland like this. I agree we really should beat Scotland at home, but they are not mugs, and haven't been for a while. And I really think we are not at the upper floors in the top tier, and haven't really been for a while, consistently. Sadly, we are far closer to Scotland than anything higher.

Read my further posts, I'm not simply dismissing them..

They were missing their best 3 players to the B&I Lions and have a handful out with injury, even if the were at full strength it's an away match in Australia at the end of a season and played in conditions which are historically suited to Australian Rugby, not that which suits Scotland(I.e Newcastle 2012).

 

[hammertimethere]

I'm sort of in the middle between the Cheika POV I.e only select old dogs or exiting players if they are nailed on starters and the opposite POV i.e Wallaby XV's and squads are not to be selected on potential/development goals ever.

I'd say I'm maybe 70% the latter, 30% the former and as such I think Cheik took it too far in terms of bringing in rookies this year (especially given it was open season on the debuts in 2016).

I think the squad balance was wrong, the obvious example being we didn't need both Hanigan AND and under done Dempsey (or both Nabuli and Koroibete etc.)

 

[The torpedo]

Why do I get the feeling that we are gonna get rolled

 

[wamberal]

Why do I get the feeling that we are gonna get rolled

No way, Jose. We will win in a canter. You can quote me on that.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'l say what I've been saying all year.

Folau should be on the wing and either Hunt or DHP at fullback..

Yes Folau is a talented athlete, a great player yes, but I don't think he is a great fullback, i think his ability at fullback is a hindrance to the team, his passing game isn't great so he doesn't link up well on kick returns, his own kicking game is average and limited in variety, his strength is his running game and aerial skills but that leaves him quite predictable in what he will do from a kick return.

Put him on the wing and he can still do everything he does well..

TOCC, Folau and Hooper are probably the only two Wallabies who would be considered for spots with either the ABs or the English, and I don't think I'd be mistaken in saying they would be considered in the positions they are now playing. Yet, we Aussies think that both are playing out of position; Folau should be on the wing and Hooper should be at 12. What is it with fan and coaching selections in Aus that we always seem to want to move our best players to cover a perceived weakness elsewhere? Why play Pocock at No 8? Why was Foley playing 12 last year? Why continually switch props from one side to the other? Sometimes it works, but majority of time I think it weakens both the positions involved.

Hunt to 12 shows promise, but I'm yet to be convinced. DHP to wing has been good and bad, but mostly ok because these days teams do need the benefit of a kicker on one wing to complement the No 15 or whomever the primary kicker is. Timani to lock (by the Rebels) is just a waste and imo weakens the overall strength of the team. Folau was certainly less than impressive in his extended stint at 13 with the Tahs, and it is apparent the Tahs are stronger with him back at 15.

 

[TOCC]

I never said Hooper should play 12..

DHP at wing is already playing a player out of position

Imagine larkham never moved from fullback