Australia v Italy, Suncorp Stadium, 24th June 2017 @ 3:00pm

[Braveheart81]

@Michael - I've got no doubt on your recommendation that Dempsey has a high side on his potential. But FFS in the WBs right now?

Cognitive dissidence big time.

I think it's just the natural progression from him being taken on the EOYT as a development player and is now in the squad again and is getting a run in a test against our lowest ranked opposition this year.

His season has been badly affected by injury but he is healthy now.

I probably wouldn't have picked him either but there is a large group of players Cheika is trying to get involved in the squad and introduced to test rugby. We have debuted about 20 people in the last 18 months.

 

[dru]

I think it's just the natural progression from him being taken on the EOYT as a development player and is now in the squad again and is getting a run in a test against our lowest ranked opposition this year.

His season has been badly affected by injury but he is healthy now.

I probably wouldn't have picked him either but there is a large group of players Cheika is trying to get involved in the squad and introduced to test rugby. We have debuted about 20 people in the last 18 months.

I guess right there, that's where we differ. Nothing natural in it from my perspective.

 

[fatprop]

@Michael - I've got no doubt on your recommendation that Dempsey has a high side on his potential. But FFS in the WBs right now?

Cognitive dissidence big time.

Dempsey is on the same path as Powell, Perese & Koroibete

They are all projects from the last November Tour\last June

Powell has had some time, Perese was at the U21s (I am certain without it he would be in the Wobs mix) & Koroibete hasn't made the cut so far. Dempsey gets some time this week.

 

[Rock Lobster]

I cannot fathom the defense of Cheika and his selection rationale. This is just a classic case of a bullshitter being found out. The excuses he trots out for excluding certain players ie. going o/s, not a certain starter, hasn't earned a spot yet, blah blah blah, are just totally disregarded when it comes to certain other players. He calls for consistency from his players and yet shows none of his own. The Dempsey selection is just ludicrous no matter how you look at it. So he took him on an EOS tour, so what, he's barely played since. He took Tom English on an EOS tour 2 years ago and he hasn't had a look in since. To suggest Dempsey has somehow how "earned" a spot is laughable.

It's the same with Horne, just a total contradiction and yet no one in the press is prepared to call him on it.

 

[wamberal]

It is disappointing not to see Tui get game time in these tests.

Absolutely.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I love the hyperbole in the expectation.

Apparently anything less than Italy's worst result in a decade is a bad performance by the Wallabies.

I would hate to think that anything less than a 20 - 30 point win would be used as justification for the current coaching setup in this Wallabies' side.

 

[dru]

Dempsey is on the same path as Powell, Perese & Koroibete

They are all projects from the last November Tour\last June

Powell has had some time, Perese was at the U21s (I am certain without it he would be in the Wobs mix) & Koroibete hasn't made the cut so far. Dempsey gets some time this week.

That is one of those "surface deep only scratches" that allows a shallow conclusion. Not incorrect, just not a lot of depth.

I focus on Powel v Dempsey. Ask these questions:
x how many games played since this "path" started
x how many minutes in 2017
x how many reasonable position options are there

I'd be considering starting Powel. I don't think it difficult to find better options for loose forwards. I'd also be thinking about how half and back row have been performing. Similar answer. But different actions called for.

 

[TOCC]

pretty uninspired by this team selection..

 

[mudskipper]

Hello did I hear Horne? Even he was surprised... Chekia will be calling in Sir Les Patterson next to play blindside flanker...

 

[Braveheart81]

I would hate to think that anything less than a 20 - 30 point win would be used as justification for the current coaching setup in this Wallabies' side.

Yes. This sort of margin sounds reasonable and is where the bookies have set the line.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Brumby Runner]

Hello did I hear Horne? Even he was surprised. Chekia will be calling in Sir Les Patterson next to play blindside flanker.

I'm sure Cheika's selection notes had Hodge but due to his poor handwriting the PR man thought it was Horne. Once it had been announced, too late to go back and correct it.

 

[jimmydubs]

I think it's just the natural progression from him being taken on the EOYT as a development player and is now in the squad again and is getting a run in a test against our lowest ranked opposition this year.

His season has been badly affected by injury but he is healthy now.

I probably wouldn't have picked him either but there is a large group of players Cheika is trying to get involved in the squad and introduced to test rugby. We have debuted about 20 people in the last 18 months.

Surely the natural progression is to first consistently be one of the best 4-5 backrowers in the country before getting a bench spot for wallabies?

Someone else might mentioned he deserves a shot because he's "an unknown" at test level. I can't buy that either. That's horse in front of the cart.

Both arguments for me are dangerously close to drawing the criticism of cheapening the jersey.

 

[No4918]

The team that lost to the Scots will beat Italy no worries. This is knee jerk stuff.

 

[TSR]

From my perspective, the argument for picking Horne & not Fardy seems arse about to me.

Both Fardy & Higgers were/are in better form than Hanigan or Dempsey. I don't see how Hanigan was any better than Higgers in the last two tests. If you want to
develop young guys I personally don't think giving them jerseys they haven't earned is the right way to go.

At 13, from what I've seen Rona was in better form than Horne. Given Kerevi & TK are out, he was next best for mine. I don't see the value in picking Horne, whose games has clearly deteriorated.

Sure - Rona could consider himself 'lucky' that he got a chance early through injury, but that is part and parcel of professional sport. But by having the form to be the 'next best' he has still earned his crack.

I just don't think the same can be said for either Hanigan or Dempsey.

 

[fatprop]

That is one of those "surface deep only scratches" that allows a shallow conclusion. Not incorrect, just not a lot of depth.

I focus on Powel v Dempsey. Ask these questions:
x how many games played since this "path" started
x how many minutes in 2017
x how many reasonable position options are there

I'd be considering starting Powel. I don't think it difficult to find better options for loose forwards. I'd also be thinking about how half and back row have been performing. Similar answer. But different actions called for.

Well I reckon Dempsey would have been starting instead of Hanigan if he didn't get injured and everyone could have been whinging about Hanigan's selection on the bench for this game. So to me Dempsey's "path" has actually been slowed. And decent young backrower's? There aren't that many. We have foreign players, dwarf 7s and ancients filling up too many places in super rosters. Realistically I don't see other options who are any better, just different options of about the same standard, but with less potential up side

Powell? I haven't seen anything so far to suggest he is the next Wobs 9. Genia may have had a mare vs Scotland, but he is just streets ahead of the rest and Powells effort in the first test would have given no one confidence in him starting this game

I still think the big question was Horne's initial selection, he is our forth choice option to me, but I am less concerned with him replacing Kurindrani in this game because once that selection was made it comes down to effort in training and the tests. Kurindrani was quite average vs the Scots if Cheika thinks he is a better option for this game I think that says more more about the incumbent than the replacement

 

[fatprop]

From my perspective, the argument for picking Horne & not Fardy seems arse about to me.

Both Fardy & Higgers were/are in better form than Hanigan or Dempsey. I don't see how Hanigan was any better than Higgers in the last two tests. If you want to
develop young guys I personally don't think giving them jerseys they haven't earned is the right way to go.

I don't think Hanigan has shown enough physically as I would like, but neither does Fardy excel at getting over that gain line or making dominant tackles

It seems clear that Fardy's strength, attacking the ball at the tackle area, isn't a focus for the Wobs. They fan out and don't commit units unless there is a dominant tackle and then they counter ruck. They have said one of the focuses is cutting out penalties and attacking the ball at the breakdown is a magical penalty fest.

Look at Latu in the Super, he is a leader in turnovers, but he is also up there in penalties conceded

Now I am not sure if that is the best option, but I can understand the approach

 

[TOCC]

Kurindrani was quite average vs the Scots if Cheika thinks he is a better option for this game I think that says more more about the incumbent than the replacement

I think it says more about the coach then the players..

Kuridrani may have been average against the Scots, but he wasn't the reason the backline performed so badly, nor was Nabuli. What lost us the game was poor game management and rubbish kicking, and all the players guilty of those are still in the team..

 

[Inside Shoulder]

We have foreign players, dwarf 7s and ancients filling up too many places in super rosters.
/quote]

too true
Will this improve with 4 teams? Still easier to fill a roster with Dean Mumms than the next big thing: a known quantity versus potential.
The problem is that you have to wonder about the talent spotters. I wonder how much effort was wasted on the fascination with what a bloke like Skelton might be but, predictably, never was.

 

[fatprop]

I think it says more about the coach then the players..

Kuridrani may have been average against the Scots, but he wasn't the reason the backline performed so badly, nor was Nabuli. What lost us the game was poor game management and rubbish kicking, and all the players guilty of those are still in the team..

Really? I thought we lacked punch and effort across the park, we were too passive with too many players more bothered about the next play than the current.

Game management? What do you actually mean by that? How does game management affect second efforts, workrate off the ball and accurate cleanouts

 

[TOCC]

Really? I thought we lacked punch and effort across the park, we were too passive with too many players more bothered about the next play than the current.

Game management? What do you actually mean by that? How does game management affect second efforts, workrate off the ball and accurate cleanouts

So was Kuridrani the back which let the backline down in workrate and cleanouts and everyone else performed to the required standard?

You're really going to try and argue the Wallabies applied good game management against The Scots?

That they took the best options available, that the kicking options taken were the right ones, that they Wallabies found an effective counter to the Scotland rush defence? What was the penalty count, how many times did the wallabies get a kick to the corner

It was Scotland for fuck sake, Australia is supposed to be a top tier nation, losing at home to Scotland in good conditions is absolutely unacceptable.