Australia v England @ Twickers 17 Nov 2012

[thierry dusautoir]

but we don't have a wider game, Timani will crash ball with Digby & possibly Cummins from the blindside through the 12 channel from first phase.

I don't think England is the kind of team Australia want to get into a dockyard brawl/slobber knocker type game, where we try and bludgeon there defence with our "club" Timani because we will lose that battle 8/10 and I think Timani will come up short when he versus a team whose bread butter is playing up front.

We will never play this way but i watched the England vs Fiji game and when Fiji made metres it was through hitting the fringes opening up the ruck defence. ........We could really do with Horwill, Genia and Higgers right now.

I also think that we won't lose to much by playing Pocock and Hooper at the same time at least for 30 minutes as the English Backrow only average 6'3 themselves

 

[wamberal]

Pocock is injured, though, isn't he?

Our forwards will have to earn the right for the team to go forward, which means that they will have to engage the Dodgers up front, before the backline nancys do their strutting and prancing. But, hopefully, both piggies and nancys will show a tiny bit more nous than they did last week, and a lot more heart.

 

[centurion]

Don't like our chances in this one.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

Especially if we are choosing an all waratah front row....not because they are the waratahs but as individuals they arent really the best scrummagers

 

[qwerty51]

Actually they are

 

[Braveheart81]

Especially if we are choosing an all waratah front row..not because they are the waratahs but as individuals they arent really the best scrummagers

Huh?

Benn Robinson is our best loose head prop at scrum time, TPN is as good as Moore in the scrum and Kepu definitely holds his own with the rest of the THP options (except Palmer who is injured).

Our scrum absolutely sucked last Sunday morning but it sucked at all points of the match regardless of which combination was on the field.

Hopefully part of the problem was that it was our first ever game with the new scrum calls. We need that to be the case because the scrum must improve this Saturday night against the English.

 

[fatprop]

Especially if we are choosing an all waratah front row..not because they are the waratahs but as individuals they arent really the best scrummagers

Well name your front row for this game then.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

Actually they are

Oh yes your right they are the best and showed that on the weekend.

It's not that they're bad but they are definately not in form. Alexander scrums could hardly warrant the call of best Loose head prop scrum wise in OZ anymore.

I believe our scrum guru scott allen has made comment before, on the fact that all are not poor scrummagers but are not the best.

Moore is easily our best option come scrumtime that is probably so he would be my starting 2 to take the brunt of a fresh english scrum.

Robinso scrumming has been very ordinary this year i would drop him for either Alexander or Slipper but in the end probably alexander as his partnership at club level with moore worked very nicely.

I would probably play kepu to start as i feel off the bench slipper is invaluable to us considerign he is the msot apt at playign both sides.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

i will mention though that the props i would choose to start for oz arent on tour.

A;so interesting to note only tahs fans seemed to be so shocked by statement....guys its ok we are allowed to accept people form our province have shortcomings in some areas.

 

[Sully]

A scrum is more than 3 guys! Time we got over front rowers and looked at scrummaging 8's. Notice that includes backrowers.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think almost everyone on the site (Waratahs fans or not) think that Moore should get a start ahead of TPN. Prior to now Moore has been injured so it hasn't been surprising that he has either been out of the team or on the bench.

Slipper was definitely the most disastrous prop out of Robbo, Kepu and Slipper on Sunday morning.

Paddy Ryan struggled as well but it's hard to pin too much blame on him when he was on debut and our experienced scrummagers were getting smashed.

I think the front row will be Robbo, Moore and Alexander.

TPN, Kepu and Slipper will probably be on the bench.

Of course, TPN may start again.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

A scrum is more than 3 guys! Time we got over front rowers and looked at scrummaging 8's. Notice that includes backrowers.

Everyone has accepted that this is a problem and the answer is untill we can clone pocock or splice his dna with hooped we are on the road to nowhere

I think the front row will be Robbo, Moore and Alexander.

TPN, Kepu and Slipper will probably be on the bench.

.

am i the only one who would rather kepu to robbinson? and it seems a waste to have alexander at THP with more when he is LHP in club with him. Also i think on current form robbo will get a mauling from england in all facets of the game....he really needs soem time off just to reinvigorate himself physically and mentally.

 

[Braveheart81]

Robinson has got better in the scrum as the season has progressed.

I think he is now clearly our best scrummager again. Aside from the French test where the scrum got smashed at all times, our scrum has got weaker everytime he has been off the field in the Rugby Championship.

 

[qwerty51]

Slipper is by far the worst scrummager of the lot, he is penalised the most.

Go look at the difference Kepu made when he came on against the ABs at Suncorp.

 

[TSR]

This is the same as the continual debate re the centres. We aren't picking Australian versions of Nonu & Smith because we don't have any. Likewise the starting Australian front row may have been sub par on the weekend, but Slipper was worse and Ryan worse still. Alexander hasn't been in outstanding form come scrum time either. Palmer isn't available. Who else is left?

Robinson & Kepu may not be setting the world on fire, but I am struggling to see how the alternatives are much better - particularly for Robinson who has improved over the later half of the year. I probably would start Alexander marginally in front of Kepu - the both seem on par in scrums so we might as well take Alexander's better work rate.

I would like to see Moore get a start over TPN, but that has more to do with lineouts & around the field.

Agree with the point that scrumming is about the whole 8, but it starts up front and, IMO, changing the starting props brings to mind deck chairs and the titanic.

 

[vidiot]

I don't want to look like I'm wearing my reds propeller hat, but the wallaby scrum was pretty consistently worked over on the weekend, no matter who the front row was. They did win a tighthead with Ryan, Moore and Slipper.

There's a nice little review of the scrummaging over at the roar, but I disagree with the title. We were that bad.

Missing the engagement, or whatever you call it now, missing binds, trying to wheel at the wrong time - just an extension of the little things that you need to do right 90% of the time to perform well.

Having said that, start Robinson/Moore/Kepu.

 

[nathan]

Good changes with the exception of TPN and Phipps - There's way better guys on the bench.

Closing your eyes and holding your hands over your ears won't make the pain go away early Sunday morning. I'm still scarred from the last time I was surrounded by poms screaming "Goooaaarrrnnnn Chrissy Goooooarrrrnnn" in 2010. At least this time it'll just be me in a dark lounge room and the ability to change the channel.

 

[nathan]

Oh and for those that haven't seen:

1. Robinson
2. TPN
3. Alexander
4. Sita
5. Sharpe
6. Dennis
7. Hooper
8. Palu
9. Phipps
10. Beale
11. Badger
12. Taps
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Digby
15. Barnes

Bench: Slipper, Moore, Kepu, Samo, Gill, Sheehan, Harris, Mitchell

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

i actually think that, genia being out aside, that is as good a team as deans has named. cummins played great last week so he deserves his spot.
love taps and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in the centres and barnes has looked quality at 15. so glad mccabe is out.
pack will improve with timani, but they should start gill at 6 and play wide and fast.

 

[qwerty51]

Dennis has to be there if with Timani. I'd say if Douglas was fit Deans would've dropped Dennis for Gill.