Australia v England @ Twickers 17 Nov 2012

[It is what it is]

I thought Barnes work under the high ball was fantastic, really stepped up when the pressure was on and diffused some bombs.

Yes he caught a few high balls but it's a sad situation when a guy does what he's supposed to do and we get excited about it.
He's a paid professional player and countless fullbacks over the years have done what he did last night, week in week out without fans getting too excited.
It's reached a stage where any Wallaby back who can catch 2 high balls in a row is feted as a star by us frustrated fans.

 

[Schadenfreude]

I'm also looking at Tuialagi's try, I reckon he lifted himself up to go forward again, and lost control of the ball before it hit the chalk.

Both line calls. But I wouldn't have given it.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ In live mode, it looked like he did the dreaded "double movement", or did not immediately place the ball, but the TV slomo seems to indicate it was momentum and he appears to lift his upperbody only to reach out for the try. I think this is allowable under the laws.

The photo in the Age appears to show that he was in control of the ball when it was on the ground. This was not all that clear from the TMO feed on the TV.

Still a line call requiring a fair amount of technology to make a decision.

 

[BDA]

A few thoughts on the game from my point of view:-

- Cummins had an outstanding game (as did Hooper, which is really just par for the course these days).
- In the forwards Palu, Timani, Sharpe, Alexander, Robinson all had good games.
- pretty much all of the backs played well.
- AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) again shone at outside. please leave him there.
- Ioane looks like he could use a rest and recharge for next year.
- Great experience for Phipps who was inconsistent but again proved he can create a linebreak when needed. Im glad he's had a chance to develop this year so that he wont be overawed when coming off the bench next year.
- The Wallabies back line looked much better without the predictable mccabe at inside centre. dont get me wrong im a mccabe fan but having such a one dimensional player at 12 is damaging to us. I'd like to see Tapuai and O'Connor act as our no.12s in 2013 and McCabe and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can play at no.13
-For those who are criticising TPN, he was definitely poor in the lineout, however he was certainly very strong at scrum time, and it was our early dominance in the scrums which set the tone for the rest of the game. He also made his physical presence felt around the field. I still think there is merit to playing him in the first half (as oppose to the second half (when the game becomes more about accuracy and less about aggression),

Finally a comment on Robbie Deans (i think this is the appropriate forum for these comments). I'll stand by my view that Deans is not getting the best out of the Wallabies. The performances remain inconsistent. Prior to the game my friend said he thought we'd get pump. I simply shrugged and said "who knows?". It all depends on which Wallabies team turns up. Our coach is there to get the best out of our players and Im not sure Deans is achieving that (simply not on a consistent basis). Deans is no doubt a decent coach, but its more about whether he is getting the most out of our talent going forward, and i remain unconvinced. I think the fact that Deans continues to choose McCabe at inside centre is a good illustration of what is wrong with our approach. In my personal opinion we should have an Australian at the helm. but im going to leave it at that for now and tip my hat to the boys (deans included) on a strong performance and one that is very satisfying.

If someone asked me two weeks ago who I prefer to beat, out of England and France, Id pick England in a heart beat., very satisfying

 

[thierry dusautoir]

If robshaw isn't fired from captain something is wrong

 

[troxler]

A few thoughts on the game from my point of view:-

- Cummins had an outstanding game (as did Hooper, which is really just par for the course these days).
- In the forwards Palu, Timani, Sharpe, Alexander, Robinson all had good games.
- pretty much all of the backs played well.
- AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) again shone at outside. please leave him there.
- Ioane looks like he could use a rest and recharge for next year.
- Great experience for Phipps who was inconsistent but again proved he can create a linebreak when needed. Im glad he's had a chance to develop this year so that he wont be overawed when coming off the bench next year.
- The Wallabies back line looked much better without the predictable mccabe at inside centre. dont get me wrong im a mccabe fan but having such a one dimensional player at 12 is damaging to us. I'd like to see Tapuai and O'Connor act as our no.12s in 2013 and McCabe and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can play at no.13
-For those who are criticising TPN, he was definitely poor in the lineout, however he was certainly very strong at scrum time, and it was our early dominance in the scrums which set the tone for the rest of the game. He also made his physical presence felt around the field. I still think there is merit to playing him in the first half (as oppose to the second half (when the game becomes more about accuracy and less about aggression),

Finally a comment on Robbie Deans (i think this is the appropriate forum for these comments). I'll stand by my view that Deans is not getting the best out of the Wallabies. The performances remain inconsistent. Prior to the game my friend said he thought we'd get pump. I simply shrugged and said "who knows?". It all depends on which Wallabies team turns up. Our coach is there to get the best out of our players and Im not sure Deans is achieving that (simply not on a consistent basis). Deans is no doubt a decent coach, but its more about whether he is getting the most out of our talent going forward, and i remain unconvinced. I think the fact that Deans continues to choose McCabe at inside centre is a good illustration of what is wrong with our approach. In my personal opinion we should have an Australian at the helm. but im going to leave it at that for now and tip my hat to the boys (deans included) on a strong performance and one that is very satisfying.

If someone asked me two weeks ago who I prefer to beat, out of England and France, Id pick England in a heart beat., very satisfying

This

 

[CTPE]

I thought it was a solid display by the Wallabies and a well contested game. I for one was surprised by how well our scrum went. Perhaps that was because England are deficient in that department, but I didn't read any suggestion of that in the lead up to the .

Robinson and Alexander were excellent but we shouldn't underestimate the impact Timani provides at blindside lock. I'm sure Alexander salivates at the prospect of getting the hit right then having the driving power of Timani behind his arse.

 

[Gnostic]

Credit where it is due. This was the first game apart from brief 5 or 10 minute spurts where we actually attacked. Previously the game plan was to throw to a pod waiting 5 metres away from the ruck or to kick long and defend. This morning they actually had an attacking pattern. It wasn't very good and few players moved in depth but it was a start.
That is the good.

Don't get carried away with this, I strongly suspect it is another false dawn, and a game against Italy is not likely to show this isn't the case. I say this simply because England are pretty poor. It would have to be the weakest English forward pack I have seen since the ill fated 1998 tour. If anybody need proof of that check how the Irish humiliated Fiji and compare that with the performance England put on against the same side.

As far as I am concerned nothing has changed for me with regard to Deans. I lost faith a long time ago and since the RWC pool matches nothing at all achieved by the Wallabies under him would regain it. If anything the stark contrast in mode of play and the results achieved shows us what could have been achieved by now if they had been playing to a decent plan AND selected appropriately for that plan. Some will no doubt hail this a massive turn around when it was another case of being the only thing left to do and the only selection left, one that had been resisted and actively avoided all year.

 

[chasmac]

Ben Robinson created the first try through being in the English defensive line. Phipps went through the hole that Robbo created ( he kept their #5 from going sideways in defense ). It reminded me of McCaw when he opened up a hole for Dagg in one of the bledisloe games this year. Very subtle work but very skilled and very effective.
Robbo was great.
I liked Taps as well.
KB (Kurtley Beale) seemed to crab a bit.
TPN should have gone to the head bin.
This was a good result.
Chip kicks are back in vogue it seems. This is a worry.

 

[CTPE]

Just some observations:

1. Barnes provided plenty of composure at 15 both in attack and relieving pressure.
2. Can't fail to appreciate the attitude that Cummins brings to the game - just love it.
3. Tapuai brought plenty of skills to 12 - can step, pass, kick and tackle.
4. Very impressed with Beales defensive efforts - AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) didn't give Tuilagi too many opportunities either.
5. Phipps has copped plenty of bagging over past weeks but his was a much improved effort - he did some really good things and scrambled well in defence.
6. Thought the Poms were very ordinary at the breakdown allowing us to dominate.
7. Dennis did a heap of unseen work and his effort was also improved.
8. Hooper was just sensational - love the way he talks so much on the field for someone with a handful of tests to his name and backs the talk up big time.

 

[centurion]

Awesome. Loved Cummins and Hooper. Good young talent.

 

[Tigger]

It all depends on which Wallabies team turns up.

I thought we were England in disguise not the French...ha ha! In all seriousness agree with your call. Loved Taps at 12, Hooper being rampant and the Honey Badgers ferocity!!
Thought I would change the avatar to celebrate the win...I guess I'll next do that in December with the current win one lose one policy...

 

[TOCC]

Don't get carried away with this, I strongly suspect it is another false dawn

Definitely a false dawn, the same England team lost Samoa last week...

However I revel in any occasion where Aussie sport beats the English!

 

[DPK]

Definitely a false dawn, the same England team lost Samoa last week.

...no they didn't. They thumped Fiji.

 

[tigerland12]

The Honey Badger has found himself a new fan.
I always liked how he played, but fucking hell I never thought he could step up to the International level like he did last night. Absolute beast, even the crowd were loving it when he got the ball, an absolute animal.

Palu looked at his strongest, hit hard with his tackles and ball carries. I like the combination of Tapuai and Ashley-Cooper in the centers as well. I think Taps is the right player to have at 12, at least untill O'Connor is ready.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

As much as I am the president of the local chapter of the ABE club, we shouldn't get too carried away with a victory over the 5th ranked team in the World. 3rd vs 5th should be the foregone conclusion that it was.

Obviously it is always a bit harder to win away from home, but the 5th ranked team of Soap Dodgers was never going to beat us.

I see parallels of previous RWC (1991 IIRC) when Campo did the old Brer Rabbit on them and embarrased them into trying to play an expansive game which they famously failed to execute.

One wonders how much of the Soap Dodgers failure occurred in the build up when they started to believe the hype in the media about the poor Wobs performance against the Garlic Munchers. According to many, all they needed to do was turn up in their new seasons colours and stand around for 80 minutes and the Men in Gold would simply part like the Red Sea for the Israelites, allowing the vaunted Englanders to stroll over the chalkline for countless 7 pointers as is their divine right.

 

[Gnostic]

As much as I am the president of the local chapter of the ABE club, we shouldn't get too carried away with a victory over the 5th ranked team in the World. 3rd vs 5th should be the foregone conclusion that it was.

Obviously it is always a bit harder to win away from home, but the 5th ranked team of Soap Dodgers was never going to beat us.

I see parallels of previous RWC (1991 IIRC) when Campo did the old Brer Rabbit on them and embarrased them into trying to play an expansive game which they famously failed to execute.

One wonders how much of the Soap Dodgers failure occurred in the build up when they started to believe the hype in the media about the poor Wobs performance against the Garlic Munchers. According to many, all they needed to do was turn up in their new seasons colours and stand around for 80 minutes and the Men in Gold would simply part like the Red Sea for the Israelites, allowing the vaunted Englanders to stroll over the chalkline for countless 7 pointers as is their divine right.

HJ IMO you are in error in this post on two fronts.

1) 1991 England side did the only thing they could to compete with the Wallabies. In the test played at the Sydney Football stadium they were comprehensively outplayed by the Wallabies with their best team on the paddock where they played to their traditional strong forward conservative game. They lost that one 5 tries to 1. Campo 2, Willie O 2 (Scored right through the guts of their forwards) and Roebuck 1. They didn't dominate the scrum and lost the lineout. Come RWC time the Wallabies had improved their game in most aspects and given a dryish Twickenham track they really had no choice but to play a different game to the conservative plan they usually trotted out and IMO Dwyer & the team expected them to, Campo may have criticised and bagged them but nobody ever thought they would change or were capable of it. (Perhaps somebody could ask Bob about that BTW). Fact is by changing their tactics they almost pulled it off. They executed the new plan very well, as they were a very very good side.

2) This England side as I said has a pretty weak forward pack, average at best. They are generally young and will develop but that development will not be in their traditional style IMO. The game they are playing should not be any surprise to anybody as they have been moving to this style since Johnson was shown the door. So there was no real change here as in 1991. For those who thought the scrum would be anything other than what it was when has Dan Cole been rated has a top scrummager? I have always had him about on par with Alexander and Co. Indeed I don't think there was a clear scum victory to anybody.

In all likely-hood the Wallabies will achieve another two victories against a still one dimensional Italy and a woeful Wales, I am astounded at how poor Wales have been, they have regressed a long way since the RWC IMO, perhaps complacent against 6N sides that had generational and coaching changes.

 

[Lindommer]

Just finished watching the replay (without knowing the result), well done Wallabies. To see our scrum monster the Pommy 8 was a joy. A few thoughts:

• The Pom defence in the first 30 or so minutes was excellent, their technique driving us back in the tackle was first rate.
• We really must do something about restarts. Where were the lifters putting our tall timber up to grab an overhead ball? When was the last time an Australian jumped and tapped the ball back from his own kickoff? This isn't rocket science, it's relatively easily fixable at training.
• The recent disease of dropping high balls kicked to the fullback (or whomever's lurking around at the back) must be eradicated. Immediately! I've spouted long and loud we should use our AFL cousins to improve these skills, with a bit of help on the side to improve our kicking out of hand. The AFL fellas could also give us a hand to catch the ball overhead at kickoffs. We could, of course, engage a hooker from a 3rd grade side in Wagga to polish up all these skills, they're simply second nature to those brought up in Aussie rules.
• The SOP adopted by Australian forwards of standing around at ruck time seems to be incurable. There was a passage of play at about 35 minutes when Timani wandered over to a breakdown, stopped and looked at it, wandered over to the next one, etc. He wasn't the only one. Was there any counter-rucking from the Aussie pigs all game? The Pom forwards were very good at securing their ball at the breakdown with at least two hitting the breakdown hard and driving past it. This practice of Australian forwards lining up next to the tacke/ruck/maul in expectation of doing something meaningful at the next one shits me to tears. Bugger the next breakdown, get stuck into this one!
• I'm no expert in the dark arts of the front row, but what happened when Fat Cat went off? From where I sit I don't think Deans, or Blades, know which side suits Slipper and/or Alexander best. That scrum at the 65/70 minute mark was a shocker, especially after we'd towelled them earlier in the match. Was Alexander found wanting at 1? Is Slipper any good? The Italian match will be a stern test for these two.
• I hesitate to bag a bloke wearing the gold jumper but Phipps really is down the pecking order of Australian halfbacks. And why Dingo didn't bring Sheehan on for a good half an hour remains a mystery, Sheehan's physicality and narky competiveness would've been perfect for a Pommy test.
• Cummins exhibited all we expect from one playing for the Wallabies: full steam ahead and damn the consequences! Well done, Nick.
• Tapuai put in a promising performance at 12. Let's mark him a bit more severely after he's had another run there, but it was nice to see a few breaks lead to something.
• Hooper's (obviously) an outstanding talent; however, I'd like to see a bit more traditional openside breakaway play at defensive breakdowns. Does anyone have any numbers for his pilfering?

 

[Beefcake]

For all the Deans bashing, Hooper & Pocock make a case that it is not the structure as much as it the players themselves who continually let down Aus rugby...

The calls for the Aus rugby to return to smart and a tactically astute style of yesteryear is absolutely the way of the Wobs, and maybe Deans has given that space for players to express themselves as it is E.MacKenzie styles (given the 2011-12 Reds).

Enjoyed the Samoa win v Wales game because their standard is to punish everyone and all and thats the way they played as expected... I'd imagine the players themselves were given the space to express themselves as masters of the structure not to be mastered by it..

Im not pumping up Deans, like most of you can see the individual brillance of each player

I may have been half asleep however, i did see glimpses of this smart rugby in the Aus v Eng game... . Which is why players like Hooper, Pocock, Cooper, Beale, O'Connor & now Taps (questionable based on 5 tests) are important not to play like robots or to be pea-hearted (in terms of going beyond the structure but not rogue - Cooper).... unfortunately the back end of the game the old kick and chase game crept back...

Hooper certainly appeals as an 6 or 7, offers near standard as Pocock as 7 and outstanding as ball-carrier, i argue better than Higgers, with a settling on-field demeanor....

And Beale in my mind is growing as international class 10...given relatively short time compared to Flood (Eng 10 @ 50+ caps) just needs better 9 service and surround himself with leaders (i.e. Pocock, Genia, Big Kev, Barnes) to lead team around the trot. Further he has a more balanced game than Cooper ad-lib play....

Anticipating the line up with Higgers and Pocock available

 

[Torn Hammy]

A big difference this week was that the backline took four steps backwards which allowed the centres extra seconds to run at, and assess "what was in front of them". This is why AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Taps looked so much better than last week's debacle of dropped balls and misdirected passes.

I'm woundering if I should attribute the fantastic 'back to the wall defence' we saw last night as one of Deans' legacies. I think so.