Australia v Argentina, Sept 14th in Perth

[Ash]

Selection of backs (unless you have a couple of absolute world beaters in the backline, which we don't) means nothing if you can't get your forwards right.

I just don't know who we can select. We don't have a starting THP. Moore is so far from good form it's hilarious, he looked like a 3rd grade nose picker half the time. Our one good prop is maybe Slipper, and I can't even tell if he is doing OK because the rest of the tight 5 around him are sucking so much.

Our locks are all over the place, and the next lock brought in (Timani) was fucking horrible against a club side, let alone a test side. Our best lock and captain, who is in pretty average form, is going to be out next week again.

Our backrow is getting bitchslapped by all and sundry, the only one carrying his share of the work is Fardy and even he is getting outplayed. Our best two backrowers - Pocock and Higgers - are gone and the best of the rest is barely carrying his weight, and none of them are combining as a unit.

Here's the rub. Who have we got to select instead? No-one. Will parachuting this player or that player in within the next week make a real difference?

I don't know what to do. Hope the Boks game was just an aberration? Clearly not the case, but nothing else we can do.

Oh, and people arguing about backs whilst ignoring forwards after that game shows why Australian rugby is truly in the shit.

I guess I just sit here hoping for the best come Saturday, because sure as fuck there's nothing else that I know we can do.

 

[lewisr]

Ash feeling just as lost mate... I can't pick it. If Ewen wants to show his merits, sooner rather than later would be nice. If that requires tossing everything out the door and starting again, then do it. That's what he did with the Reds in 2011, they had an extremely average start to the season. Fingers crossed he steps up. This week is going to be tough for them.

 

[Hawko]

Given the Argie performance in the scrums on Saturday, where they basically dominated a pack who dominated us totally last week, it will be necessary to shore up that first before we do anything else. What I think we need to do is:

1. Bring Robinson in to start and Sio to back up from the bench.
2. Moore stays despite his poor performance. Fainga'a's scrummaging is not even Super quality.
3. Move Slipper to tight head with Alexander to the bench. Kepu drops out. Tell Slipper that while he should defend tight, he must conserve energy for the scrum so leave others to do the attacking. It is desperate times.
4. Select Timani as our tight head lock for his scrum push. Tell him to stay out of the backline and he is required to do three things only: Push hard in scrums (1), move bodies in rucks (2), tackle in tight as though his life depends on it (3).
5. Fardy to loose head lock and he will have to be one of our three jumpers. I hope his scrummaging will hold because Robinson and Sio will need help.
6. Mowen (captain) to six, Gill to seven and McCalman to eight. Gill is the fourth jumper. The Argie lineout is not so hot - that will assist our jumpers.
7. Simmons and Hooper to the bench. Hooper doesn't deserve it but we have to boost our scrum and lineout. Gill is bigger and better over the ball.

Because we are so bad at set-piece, we have to conserve our resources, particularly our strength for the scrum. Fatigue has to be avoided. Forwards must concentrate on set-piece, tackling and ruck cleanout on attack and defence. Attacking running is to be left to the backs and we will need to do more field-position kicking.
Our best backs lineup has to be White, Cooper JOC (James O'Connor), Lilo, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mogg, Folau with a bench of Genia, To'omua and Cummins. To'omua and Cummins should get 20 minutes for Cooper and Mogg. These players will have to shoulder the burden of the attack.
How has it come to this? This is the sort of thinking a team rated 10th has when playing the top two or three. Ugly stuff, but next Saturday we have to limit our losses and maybe scrape a win. Then we can start rebuilding. The player squad must, MUST be kept together for the two weeks before the away games. There is a lot of work to be done.
I can't believe I just wrote this. But then I can't believe what I have been seeing on my TV screen on Saturday nights. I even paid $300+ for a seat at the last Lions test, which God knows I can't really afford. It is like I am living in some weird parallel universe where everything I hoped for got turned on its head.

 

[Intruder]

Moore has been targeted at the set piece in particular Scrums, started with the collapse against the B&I Lions both late in game two and the decider. However he is our best option with TPN still out injured. IMO against Argentina the only way we will compete is to go with;

1. Robinson - Get him out of club rugby and into the Test Arena
2. Moore - While TPN is out injured he is our best option. Fainga'a will get murdered
3. Palmer - It's a bloody long shot but he knows the weakness and strengths of Moore and was basically the scrum technician in Canberra. SOS to France ASAP. Our next best option is Kepu (Has played Argentina on tour with NSW Barbarians)
4. Timani - Agree with Hawko
5. Douglas - Simmons has been OK up to date but Douglas will do a lot more dirty work in and around the tight
6. Fardy - Solid performer
7. Gill - Not bothered by who starts however Hooper for me will provide a lot more spark of the bench
8. McCalman - Mowen out

Bench:
16. Slipper
17. Fainga'a
18. Alexander
19. Simmons
20. Hooper
21. Mowen

 

[Braveheart81]

I think a few heads definitely have to roll after a performance like that.

Whilst I completely agree that the backs are of little concern in terms of us winning football games while the forwards are so poor, I also don't think they're immune from selection changes. There are clearly plenty of problems in the backline as well as the forward pack.

Benn Robinson needs to be given a crack. He's been playing very well in the Shute Shield finals and has been our best scrummager for several years. When he was dropped at the start of the Rugby Championship people speculated that he just wasn't suited to the new scrummaging laws. After the way our scrum has been smashed, that decision deserves to be questioned and Robinson deserves a go.

If Matt To'omua wasn't the answer at 10 then Quade Cooper wasn't either. His performance was a definite backwards step from To'omua's second test against the All Blacks. Most people have commented that Cooper's 2013 form hasn't been near his best and I think that remains true. I think we should either go back to To'omua and continue blooding him or give Bernard Foley a run.

Will Genia needs to get benched and possibly dropped. He is at a really low ebb in terms of form and there's no point persisting with him currently.

Sitaleki Timani should be strongly considered to start this next test. Kepu has been roundly criticised but the shape of our locks in the scrums was terrible and that can't have been helping.

The Wallabies have to go back to trying to pick a forward pack that can compete at set piece and then base our gameplan around those forwards.

There's no point trying to play to a certain game plan if the players selected for that plan get smashed across the park.

My team for the next test would be:

Robinson
Fainga'a
Slipper
Fardy
Timani
Mowen
Hooper
McCalman
White
To'omua
Cummins
Leali'ifano
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
JOC (James O'Connor)
Folau

Alexander
Sio
Moore
Simmons
Gill
Phipps
Mogg
Foley

 

[Slim 293]

I like the look of your starting XV braveheart, but I'd still have Genia on the bench..........

Fainga'a is not in Moore's league, but like Genia Moore needs a rest...........

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Robinson
Fainga'a
Slipper
Fardy
Timani
Mowen
Hooper
McCalman
White
To'omua
Cummins
Leali'ifano
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
JOC (James O'Connor)
Folau

Alexander
Sio
Moore
Simmons
Gill
Phipps
Mogg
Foley

Shows how quickly halves go in and out of fashion in this country - and I'm not saying I disagree

 

[Slim 293]

Genia will be back, but for now he needs a good rest and a kick up the ass.........

Bob Dwyer has supposedly been told he "doesn't take advice".......

It's time for a few more egos to be crushed........

 

[Braveheart81]

I think a message has to be sent that Saturday's performance was so far from being acceptable and that no one is immune from that.

Genia would be the fall guy to convey that message. His form has been really poor and I don't see how leaving him out of the matchday 23 for a week can be the worst idea ever.

Let's just hope the Wallabies have got close to their nadir. If we're looking back at the South Africa test and thinking that things weren't that bad then I don't want to know what we're in for next.

 

[Ignoto]

If Matt To'omua wasn't the answer at 10 then Quade Cooper wasn't either. His performance was a definite backwards step from To'omua's second test against the All Blacks. Most people have commented that Cooper's 2013 form hasn't been near his best and I think that remains true. I think we should either go back to To'omua and continue blooding him or give Bernard Foley a run.

I'm curious, with Cooper and To'omua not playing badly, but not playing amazing, why should either one be dropped for Foley. Is there something Foley has that should warrant his inclusion (I haven't watched or followed any Shute rugby so I'm unaware of any games he's recently been in).

To be fair, I'd much prefer we settle the backline on something similar and concentrate on getting them momentum to work with.

I agree with your Forwards BH, although I'd give Gill a go over Hooper. He'll I'd even call big Will over to Perth to see how he trains, while he's green as hell, he seems to be a kid who'll give you a performance from the heart.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm curious, with Cooper and To'omua not playing badly, but not playing amazing, why should either one be dropped for Foley. Is there something Foley has that should warrant his inclusion (I haven't watched or followed any Shute rugby so I'm unaware of any games he's recently been in).

To be fair, I'd much prefer we settle the backline on something similar and concentrate on getting them momentum to work with.

I agree with your Forwards BH, although I'd give Gill a go over Hooper. He'll I'd even call big Will over to Perth to see how he trains, while he's green as hell, he seems to be a kid who'll give you a performance from the heart.

Personally I would go back to To'omua (and wouldn't have dropped him in the first place), but Link dropped him after the last test. If his thinking was that To'omua hadn't shown enough then I can't see how Cooper did
either.

We have three 10s in the squad and at this stage I can't see how it is a bad thing to hand Foley a debut. It's not like the two players ahead of him have secured the position and Link's selections have agreed with that. Foley's Shute Shield form certainly hasn't hurt his chances (although I also think that it doesn't really improve his chances. It is chalk and cheese to test rugby).

A record defeat at home is definitely the time to give a few more of the squad members a run rather than picking close to the same team again and expecting the result to be dramatically different.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

Im heading down the the open training session tonight hoping the boys will be flogged!

 

[Braveheart81]

Im heading down the the open training session tonight hoping the boys will be flogged!

50 lashes per starting player and 30 lashes per bench player sounds like an appropriate punishment.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

50 lashes per starting player and 30 lashes per bench player sounds like an appropriate punishment.

iv already got my rotten fruit and veg ready for the walk of shame

 

[Zander]

Im heading down the the open training session tonight hoping the boys will be flogged!

Actually flogging them in training this week will do more harm than good in a Test week. That's always unfortunate for coaches.

 

[Nathan's]

Starting XV:

1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Slipper
4. Timani (as much as I don't like him)
5. Fardy
6. Mowen (c)
7. Hooper
8. McCalman
9. White
10. To'omua
11. O'Connor
12. Lilo
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Mogg
15. Folau

Alexander
Fainga'a
Sio
Gill
Simmons
Genia
Foley
Cummins

- Strength and size in the forwards. Not willing to get rid of Hooper as he has been our best forward.
- White for Genia
- To'omua for Cooper
- Mogg on the wing, great back 3 attack. Mogg, Folau and JOC (James O'Connor)
- Provides us with a left and right boot, instead of JOC (James O'Connor) kicking for touch
- Foley's versatility, having the ability to also play 15
- Mowen will improve when playing in his bread and butter position, 6.

 

[tigerland12]

Personally I wouldn't be changing too much in the backs this week. I actually thought Quade went OK, so he should stay in the 23 at least.

Genia should be dropped to the bench, he's been awful.

Apart from that all changes should happen in the pack. Benn Robinson & James Slipper as our 1 & 3 is a no-brainer, it's just a shame that it looks like it won't happen.

Moore needs a kick up the arse, so I'd bring Fainga'a in. Would have been better to have Polota-Nau or even James Hanson there to come in.

Then the likes of Mowen, Hooper, Simmons, Douglas should all get the chop, but realistically there is no one better to come in at this point.

Fuck we are missing Higgers and BamBam.

 

[Zander]

I'd say you're missing Palu the most. Lamented on this forum for no reason and still can't even recognise his impact when he's gone.

 

[Joe Blow]

No-one can seriously suggest Fainga'a should start over Moore against Argentina. Getting rid of our last forward with some decent test experience just does not make sense. Bringing Robbo back in does. Timani as well.
Fardy to partner him in the second row with Mowen to 6 and McCalman to 8.
The pack still will not be great but we may have a chance of holding Argentina.
We really are missing Palu. Also Higgers, Pocock and TPN.
Tough times for the Wallabies but they will come good eventually.

 

[A mutterer]

i think dropping robinson needs to be reviewed in light of the shellacking we have gotten up front.

but to be honest, i would be happier taking a punt with the untested players, who at least should be hungrier and willing to bleed for the jersey. i would be far more forgiving of an unblooded player coming in and giving it a fair crack - because in the back of my mind i would be thinking that at least its better than having to sit through the appalling attempts at scrummaging and forward play we have been inflicted with recently. i wanted to put the word 'rugby' in that sentence but that would have been too far of a stretch to describe what the wobbs have inflicted on their fans in recent games.