• Welcome to the forums of Green & Gold Rugby.
    We have recently made some changes to the amount of discussions boards on the forum.
    Over the coming months we will continue to make more changes to make the forum more user friendly for all to use.
    Thanks, Admin.

Australia A - Back on the Cards

dru

David Wilson (68)
As much as I’d like to see NRC#3, I’m glad it isn’t a thing this year as it couldn’t help but be half arsed. Next year, let’s hope to see it.

If they are moving to a Domestic comp in 2024 they will need something to aid the transition, surely.
I imagine the concept is to give all in the squad game time as whilst want to do well would be seen as development opportunity for all players to showcase what they can offer whilst getting exposure at higher level.

Everyone get's a ribbon? <great>
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
I’d just like there to be a distinct plan

Agree, but if a "everyone wins a prise for joining in" policy is real, I just lost a huge amount of enthusiasm for the series. Can't imagine the Pacific Nations could be particularly impressed either.
 

Drew

Bob Davidson (42)
Agree, but if a "everyone wins a prise for joining in" policy is real, I just lost a huge amount of enthusiasm for the series. Can't imagine the Pacific Nations could be particularly impressed either.
I was more talking about NRC 3. I’m with you that they should chose the best selection for every match.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dru

Lightblue

Arch Winning (36)
If they are moving to a Domestic comp in 2024 they will need something to aid the transition, surely.


Everyone get's a ribbon? <great>
Not really ‘everyone gets a ribbon’… more it’s a squad of Wallaby possibles and they all need game time… what’s the point of picking a squad of developing players and only picking the so called best 23…. no point.
 

Adam84

Rod McCall (65)
Not really ‘everyone gets a ribbon’… more it’s a squad of Wallaby possibles and they all need game time… what’s the point of picking a squad of developing players and only picking the so called best 23…. no point.
i don't think we even know who the best 23 are yet either, some players step up when put in higher environments, some don't
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Simon Poidevin (60)
A team, nrc all good concepts as need more game time (and at higher level then club rugby) but also need pathways (which australia a addresses for super players but not top club players).

Solution keep Australia A but also have nrc mark 3. I am concerned hearing nothing about when nrc mark 3 may be put in place as god we need this.

I'm a fan of the Super Rugby A comp structure. Keep the players in as streamlined a path as possible following from academies like Gen Blue etc...

Whilst I think it's a fun idea of getting behind a local area its just a cluster fuck (at least in NSW as per usual) The Rays had various versions/partners. The Stars were initially linked with a Subbies club (Balmain) which is now in Div 5 of Subbies. They also had so many spots to fill some players were being hounded to play. Clubs all want control and don't get along due to old ties and rivalries.

Rae Rae
 

liquor box

Peter Sullivan (51)
I'm a fan of the Super Rugby A comp structure. Keep the players in as streamlined a path as possible following from academies like Gen Blue etc...

Whilst I think it's a fun idea of getting behind a local area its just a cluster fuck (at least in NSW as per usual) The Rays had various versions/partners. The Stars were initially linked with a Subbies club (Balmain) which is now in Div 5 of Subbies. They also had so many spots to fill some players were being hounded to play. Clubs all want control and don't get along due to old ties and rivalries.

Rae Rae
The best way to avoid the cluster fuck is to have each super franchise control 2 x teams under their name, think of how QLD ran their teams.

This allows for a 10 team competitions, Run each week end with 2 x double headers and 1 x single header and then in the second round swap the home ground.

eg -
Rd 1 - QLD Country v Rebels 1, Brisbane City v Rebels 2 at QLD
Rd5 - Rebels 1 v Brisbane City, Rebels 2 v QLD Country at Melbourne.

If you are not involved in a double header then you play Friday night at home with your own 2 x teams.

Double Headers would be Saturday and Sunday.

Maybe player loans could be allowed to ensure that all teams are up to standard.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
The best way to avoid the cluster fuck is to have each super franchise control 2 x teams under their name, think of how QLD ran their teams.

This allows for a 10 team competitions, Run each week end with 2 x double headers and 1 x single header and then in the second round swap the home ground.

eg -
Rd 1 - QLD Country v Rebels 1, Brisbane City v Rebels 2 at QLD
Rd5 - Rebels 1 v Brisbane City, Rebels 2 v QLD Country at Melbourne.

If you are not involved in a double header then you play Friday night at home with your own 2 x teams.

Double Headers would be Saturday and Sunday.

Maybe player loans could be allowed to ensure that all teams are up to standard.

The problem is that not only are Rebels unlikely to be able to manage two teams, they are not on their own. If you were able to pick up Fiji it might balance that element, but even then things are tricky.

You have the SRU/NSWRU issue to broach. There is surely a way through this but maybe seek 3 teams in NSW and put out offers to the SS clubs for interest, then spread the Waratah players and coaching staff through whatever happens. I'm not convinced you will assuage the more noisy club politics with 2 teams.

Qld with two teams is probably a given, though both being based in Brisbane would have it's pros and cons. Moving "Country" to IDK, Gladstone, would be interesting but again pros and cons. They are more likely to end up on the Gold Coast, which may not be "City" but it's not country either.

Brumbies have solid ties to Vikings and as I understand it the rest of the club scene has seen itself 'left right out'. So maybe something could happen there with an amalgam of "the rest" and spread the Brumby talent, BUT fan base? ACT is limited. If you don't have two in the capital there is a complete mis-match in terms of strength. For the comp you would need to move a stack of players into other clubs - can you imagine trying to negotiate that with a highly successful Brumbies outfit?

Would uncle Twiggy fund two teams? He's more likely to consider how they would go in the resulting comp, or god forbid look to re-align with NZ as he has threatened previously. Groan.

I think the result could be really interesting but the work getting there is immense.

Try this:
1. Waratah A - Manly?
2. Waratah B - Gordon?
3. Waratah C - Eastwood?
4. Brisbane City
5. Qld Country - aka Gold Coast
6. Vikings
7. We hate the Vikings
8. Melbourne Rebels
9. WA Force
10. Fiji Drua

With the right talent retention, the right funding (NOT equal, has to be needs based), talent levelling, and some considered scheduling - there are bells on this approach.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
If we're looking at a replacement to Super Rugby in 2024 I'd think you'd start with 8 teams because adding more than 2 teams from the get go would be hugely challenging.

Keep the current 5 Australian teams plus the Fiji Drua and add another team in NSW and Qld that are both privately owned.

The NSW team is presumably Western Sydney based out of Parramatta.

Not sure on the Queensland team whether you'd have a second team based out of Suncorp or instead look to base them in the Sunshine Coast.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
If we're looking at a replacement to Super Rugby in 2024 I'd think you'd start with 8 teams because adding more than 2 teams from the get go would be hugely challenging.

Keep the current 5 Australian teams plus the Fiji Drua and add another team in NSW and Qld that are both privately owned.


The NSW team is presumably Western Sydney based out of Parramatta.

Not sure on the Queensland team whether you'd have a second team based out of Suncorp or instead look to base them in the Sunshine Coast.

That comp, with out further changes, is simply going to change "Kiwi teams" with Brumbies for lop-sided progress. A second team in Sydney without opening to the clubs will hit problems, unless something has drastically changed since the days of NRC.

It is an easy entry to a local comp but also needs a lot of work, not just the two new teams.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
If we're looking at a replacement to Super Rugby in 2024 I'd think you'd start with 8 teams because adding more than 2 teams from the get go would be hugely challenging.
Yeah, even 2 would be tough in the timeframe.

Fiji would be desirable but resources would be needed to get them in as they have an option.

Would uncle Twiggy fund two teams?
Possibly not.

Although he has funded more than two before - outside Australia.

Others have also funded rugby o/s.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
That comp, with out further changes, is simply going to change "Kiwi teams" with Brumbies for lop-sided progress. A second team in Sydney without opening to the clubs will hit problems, unless something has drastically changed since the days of NRC.

It is an easy entry to a local comp but also needs a lot of work, not just the two new teams.

The Shute Shield would continue running at the same time.

We have to create new teams. Sydney and Brisbane are really the only markets where that seems viable.

In my view it is essential to bring in private equity for these teams and not have them fall under the umbrella of NSWRU/QRU.

Personally I am strongly against not using the existing teams in a new comp. The Waratahs and Reds are some of our best IP and have established membership bases. For a new comp that needs everything to go right it would be insane to do away with that in favour of entirely new teams everywhere like the NRC had (even if some of them are basically just the Super Rugby team by another name).

New teams probably will struggle but we also don't improve our competition by bringing everyone down to the lowest common denominator.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Yeah, even 2 would be tough in the timeframe.

Fiji would be desirable but resources would be needed to get them in as they have an option.

8 teams seems like the minimum viable number for a new comp in my view. I don't think we can go back to 5 or 6 and proclaim it as a step forward.

Would Fiji have an option elsewhere? They're somewhat reliant on Australian Commonwealth funding aren't they? Plus World Rugby still helps fund them. Hopefully they are tied to us.
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Simon Poidevin (60)
Kanaloa Pacifica could still be floating around and looking for a place to play. They are completely self funded and not tied to NZRU like Moana Pacifica. Strong NZ ties but they wanted autonomy over control of the team which NZ would not allow.

Rae Rae
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
The Shute Shield would continue running at the same time.

We have to create new teams. Sydney and Brisbane are really the only markets where that seems viable.

In my view it is essential to bring in private equity for these teams and not have them fall under the umbrella of NSWRU/QRU.

Personally I am strongly against not using the existing teams in a new comp. The Waratahs and Reds are some of our best IP and have established membership bases. For a new comp that needs everything to go right it would be insane to do away with that in favour of entirely new teams everywhere like the NRC had (even if some of them are basically just the Super Rugby team by another name).

New teams probably will struggle but we also don't improve our competition by bringing everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

Agree on the IP re the Reds and Waratahs. And whatever way forward is going to have plenty of warts. It's not just new teams that would struggle, but also the emasculated Reds and Waratahs. That's 4 teams in the 8. With 1 team set to dominate - Brumbies. Agree, that this may simply be issues that have to be accepted and/or dealt with. Going domestic would not be easy.

Still setting up a Western Sydney team, without buy in from the clubs, and the Warataahs continue as it - sounds like a suicide pact. Unless you relocate MP (Moana Pasifika) (unlikely as they as with NZ) or Fiji - which doesn't solve the 8 teams issue.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Agree on the IP re the Reds and Waratahs. And whatever way forward is going to have plenty of warts. It's not just new teams that would struggle, but also the emasculated Reds and Waratahs. That's 4 teams in the 8. With 1 team set to dominate - Brumbies. Agree, that this may simply be issues that have to be accepted and/or dealt with. Going domestic would not be easy.

Still setting up a Western Sydney team, without buy in from the clubs, and the Warataahs continue as it - sounds like a suicide pact. Unless you relocate MP (Moana Pasifika) (Moana Pasifika) (unlikely as they as with NZ) or Fiji - which doesn't solve the 8 teams issue.

This isn't like the NRC. They are professional teams that need to sign full time players. I don't really see what involvement you want from club rugby sides. Why would it be more than the Reds/Tahs currently have? Those players can play club rugby after the season finishes just like everyone else not in the Wallabies setup.

I don't see how you're emasculating the Reds and Tahs. Sure, you're adding competition in their market but it shouldn't make those teams substantially more likely to sign their players when off-contract than any other Australian team. The one benefit the players would have is not having to relocate.

Teams have to catch up to the Brumbies whether we like it or not. There's no value in trying to weaken them and anyway, how would you do it? They are stronger through nothing more than good recruitment and coaching. They don't have a strong catchment nor more money and bigger crowds than the other teams.
 
Top