Aussie Player Exodus

[qwerty51]

And another.

McKibbin off to London Irish

 

[Quick Hands]

I also think you'll find that at least some of the clubs denied the possibility of professional rugby and so were in no shape to get it going.
Even so:

1. S15/professional rugby has been a good thing for Australian rugby;
2. There was no other source of money that could possibly have bankrolled a move from amateur to professional in the 1995/96 offseason;
3. We got lucky with the super league war which meant that Rupert was not going to lose any winter turf in Oz to Packer who had the ARL.
4. The whole debate assumes that if the clubs had gone pro enough people could have been convinced to watch club union to justify the money now thrown at AFL and NRL - I reckon that's wishful thinking.

And let's not forget that in the last days of amateurism, forerunners of Super 12 already existed:
1992 - Super 6 (Auckland, Canterbury, Wellington, NSW, Qld & Fiji)
1993-5 - Super 10 (Waikato, Auckland, Otago, North Harbour, Natal, Transvaal, Northern Transvaal, NSW, Qld & Samoa.

Interestingly the Reds won 3 years out of 4.

So it's simply ludicrous to suggest, as some have, that Australia could go alone in 1996 and set up a national club competition instead of being part of Super 12.

EDIT: Note how the Pacific Islands were part of the original set up.

 

[Bullrush]

Again....money's not everything. I hope Kaino stays.....

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...cal-could-keep-Jerome-Kaino-on-NZ-Rugby-books

 

[wamberal]

Again..money's not everything. I hope Kaino stays...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...cal-could-keep-Jerome-Kaino-on-NZ-Rugby-books

Maybe not, but my money will be on the Auckland Nines outdrawing the Wellington on and off the field.

Money's not everything? Could have fooled me.

 

[Bullrush]

Maybe not, but my money will be on the Auckland Nines outdrawing the Wellington on and off the field.

Money's not everything? Could have fooled me.

You don't think that a few of the current ABs have been offered bigger money to play in France or Japan or somewhere else in Europe?

And yet they have stayed.....

 

[qwerty51]

Maybe not, but my money will be on the Auckland Nines outdrawing the Wellington on and off the field.

Money's not everything? Could have fooled me.

I'd take that bet it won't.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^^ I haven't been able to find any numbers for the 2014 Wellington 7's but a figure of 89K was widely reported for the Auckland 9's which is getting on for 3 times what Westpac holds I.e. attendance-wise the 9's kicked the 7's arse. How much of that was novelty factor? I guess we'll find out this weekend...........

 

[Quick Hands]

You don't think that a few of the current ABs have been offered bigger money to play in France or Japan or somewhere else in Europe?

And yet they have stayed...

For the moment
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/news/9909018/French-club-rugby-money-looms-for-NZ-players

But rugby holds a far bigger place in the national pscyhe in NZ than it does in Australia. While most Australian rugby players are anonymous outside the small pond of rugby followers, everyone knows the ABs and the top provincial players in NZ. I know Kiwis who could name just about every player in all 5 super teams , plus a second XV for each.

Comparing rugby in NZ and Australia isn't comparing apples with apples.

 

[Bullrush]

For the moment
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/news/9909018/French-club-rugby-money-looms-for-NZ-players

But rugby holds a far bigger place in the national pscyhe in NZ than it does in Australia. While most Australian rugby players are anonymous outside the small pond of rugby followers, everyone knows the ABs and the top provincial players in NZ. I know Kiwis who could name just about every player in all 5 super teams , plus a second XV for each.

Comparing rugby in NZ and Australia isn't comparing apples with apples.

But we aren't talking about fans. Do Wallaby players and aspiring Wallaby players value the jersey as much as their AB counterparts do?

If they do then money isn't everything....


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[Quick Hands]

But we aren't talking about fans. Do Wallaby players and aspiring Wallaby players value the jersey as much as their AB counterparts do?

If they do then money isn't everything..


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The point is that the cultural expectation is different. All Black status in NZ is such that there is a greater motivation to stay part of NZ rugby as it provides a certain status in society that money can't buy. Representing NZ in rugby is the pinnacle of national sporting achievement. It's just not the same here, so there's not the same hold on the emotions of the players. I'm not saying they don't value playing for Australia, but it's just not as black and white (no pun intended) as you make out.

 

[Strewthcobber]

But we aren't talking about fans. Do Wallaby players and aspiring Wallaby players value the jersey as much as their AB counterparts do?

If they do then money isn't everything..


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Genuine question.

Do Wallaby players and aspiring Wallaby players make as much money as their AB counterparts do?

 

[Bullrush]

The point is that the cultural expectation is different. All Black status in NZ is such that there is a greater motivation to stay part of NZ rugby as it provides a certain status in society that money can't buy. Representing NZ in rugby is the pinnacle of national sporting achievement. It's just not the same here, so there's not the same hold on the emotions of the players. I'm not saying they don't value playing for Australia, but it's just not as black and white (no pun intended) as you make out.

I'd find it hard to believeABs stay for some kind of societal status.
The ugly side of rugby being so popular is what happens when you lose. Just ask Taine Randell or John Hart


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[Bullrush]

Genuine question.

Do Wallaby players and aspiring Wallaby players make as much money as their AB counterparts do?

i don't know to be honest but I don't think, on average, the difference is that much. Someone like McCaw mite be on a huge pay but the difference between a Nic White and a TJ Perenara wouldn't be I reckon....in fact White is probably on more given how many Wallaby games he played last year

But he wants to leave the Wallaby jersey behind.....


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[Quick Hands]

I'd find it hard to believeABs stay for some kind of societal status.
The ugly side of rugby being so popular is what happens when you lose. Just ask Taine Randell or John Hart


Sent from my iPhone

Hasn't your whole argument been that there is an intangible benefit from playing rugby for your country that money can't buy?

If so, this intangible benefit differs from country to country dependent of the status of rugby in that country.

I presume that you agree that rugby holds a higher place in NZ society than it does in Australia?

If we were to compare cricket for example, we would see that historically far fewer Australian players play overseas than do NZ cricketers, esentially because cricket is a more important sport in Australia than it is in NZ and there is an intagible benefit from playing cricket for Australia which I suspect far outweighs the benefit from playing for NZ.

 

[Bullrush]

Hasn't your whole argument been that there is an intangible benefit from playing rugby for your country that money can't buy?

If so, this intangible benefit differs from country to country dependent of the status of rugby in that country.

I presume that you agree that rugby holds a higher place in NZ society than it does in Australia?

If we were to compare cricket for example, we would see that historically far fewer Australian players play overseas than do NZ cricketers, esentially because cricket is a more important sport in Australia than it is in NZ and there is an intagible benefit from playing cricket for Australia which I suspect far outweighs the benefit from playing for NZ.

The intangible benefit is the knowledge that one is good enough to represent their country. Or being considered the best player or the top hooker or flanker or whatever...not a societal status?!?

You don't think Kaino could have hot more $$ staying in Japan or going to Toulon? Money isn't everything.

And the cricket comparison doesn't work because you can play overseas and still play for the Black Caps


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[Inside Shoulder]

The intangible benefit is the knowledge that one is good enough to represent their country. Or being considered the best player or the top hooker or flanker or whatever.not a societal status?!?

On the contrary.
The intangible benefit was the doors it opened in your post rugby life.

 

[Bullrush]

On the contrary.
The intangible benefit was the doors it opened in your post rugby life.

Those are pretty tangible intangibles

I'm starting to understand why rugby is fucked here though


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[Inside Shoulder]

Those are pretty tangible intangibles

I'm starting to understand why rugby is fucked here though


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Really?
I'm not suggesting that doors literally opened

 

[Quick Hands]

And the cricket comparison doesn't work because you can play overseas and still play for the Black Caps


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Exactly, but you can't play for Australia unless you play here.

You've proved my point, different countries different circumstances.

With respect, I think you're taking a rather simplistic view of things.

 

[Bullrush]

Exactly, but you can't play for Australia unless you play here.

You've proved my point, different countries different circumstances.

With respect, I think you're taking a rather simplistic view of things.

Errrr no. its the same in NZ as well - we dont select from overseas so comparing the Black Caps to the ABs (what you did) is pointless.

And it is simple. Again, money isn't everything. Is the Wallaby jersey enough for Australian players to stay here for? Not for White, Higgers etc


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