Aussie Player Exodus

[Slim 293]

Sure, we can all talk about the hypothetical merits or downfalls in Hodge’s game at 10 (it was mainly bait I admit, surprised I got any nibbles) but the real point I was making is that I would take a novice over Bernard.

Talk about cutting your nose to spite your face.........

 

[RebelYell]

I wonder if there is any scenario where Cheika doesn't coach at the RWC. If we're 0-4 in TRC, does Johnson say "sorry mate, the group isn't playing for you", and take over as interim HC until Rennie next year?

Heaven forbid if we went 0-5, surely he can't go to Japan?

 

[RugbyReg]

I wonder if there is any scenario where Cheika doesn't coach at the RWC. If we're 0-4 in TRC, does Johnson say "sorry mate, the group isn't playing for you", and take over as interim HC until Rennie next year?

Heaven forbid if we went 0-5, surely he can't go to Japan?

there is every likelihood that we will be 0 and 4. I can see a scenario where Johnson steps in as caretaker as you suggest. I think that will definitely happen if we don't win before Samoa.

 

[Brumby Runner]

No, the logic goes - use whoever you want its not going to suddenly turn this team into a winning one.

Tired of people banging on about Foley after every match as if he was the determining factor. He isn't.

Derpus, in my view Foley is quite a good rugby player,but not a world class No 10. All of his good plays last weekend came about when he was playing like or on the wing. His try was vintage winger backing up the mid field line break while his kick assistfor the non-try by DHP was entirely play on the wing. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have the pace tobe a true test quality winger, but he doesn't have the ability tobe a stand out test No 10. A bit like Michael Hooper, good footballer with skill but doesn't fitthe requirements of any position in a conventional rugby sense.

 

[Derpus]

Derpus, in my view Foley is quite a good rugby player,but not a world class No 10. All of his good plays last weekend came about when he was playing like or on the wing. His try was vintage winger backing up the mid field line break while his kick assistfor the non-try by DHP was entirely play on the wing. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have the pace tobe a true test quality winger, but he doesn't have the ability tobe a stand out test No 10. A bit like Michael Hooper, good footballer with skill but doesn't fitthe requirements of any position in a conventional rugby sense.

Yeah, i mean i actually agree. I think he's long past his RWC15 form and hes behind all his counterparts in the RC, be it Sanchez, Pollard, BB, Mo'unga etc.

I just don't think it's a case of Cheika picking a poor player over a better one. I think all our options are subpar and nearing retirement. I want to see Lilo given a chance and i would not even be upset if QC (Quade Cooper) was run out at some point.

The thing i take exception to is the bollocking the guy gets after every single test. He certainly was nowhere near our worst last test. He doesn't deserve it.

Hooper is our best 7 until McReight takes his rightful place as Pocock's heir.

 

[Braveheart81]

The reality is that Leali'ifano is our only other reasonable 10 option at test level currently.

This suggestion by Bobby Sands that literally any player would do better at 10 than Foley is complete garbage. It's become pretty apparent that several very experienced players who have played a lot of 10 (To'omua, Beale) can't do a better job there.

Cooper is past it and his form fell apart badly in the back end of the Super season.

We have two options currently and I think we will see Leali'ifano get a run as soon as he is healthy (which may be this week).

 

[KOB1987]

They were also just saying on the Rugby Ruckus that Foley was making good decisions on the weekend but wasn't getting any support. 'Rust'.

 

[Strewthcobber]

They were also just saying on the Rugby Ruckus that Foley was making good decisions on the weekend but wasn't getting any support. 'Rust'.

It is interesting that Foley isn't getting any credit even for the big Kerevi bust/forward pass. He handled the ball plenty in that movement, set up the backs v forwards mismatch and then gave the final miss pass to put Kerevi through the hole.

He has his flaws (kicking especially!), but does plenty of little stuff well throughout a game.

I don't think there's any conflict in saying he isn't a world class five eight, but is probably still our best option at 10.

Hopefully Lilo can show he's a better option this week and moving forward because we defiantly need one. Looking at this last start against the Jags though, I'm not sure he's going to be a the panacea everyone's looking for.

 

[Bobby Sands]

I don't think there's any conflict in saying he isn't a world class five eight, but is probably still our best option at 10.

Hopefully Lilo can show he's a better option this week and moving forward because we defiantly need one. Looking at this last start against the Jags though, I'm not sure he's going to be a the panacea everyone's looking for.

Fair & reasonable post.

I don’t think anyone expect Lilo to be the “new sound” of rugby, but I think most expect that he be given a decent chance to prove himself. We know what Foley brings, the sample space data is huge, and the results underwhelming. Let’s take some more data and see what we find - just like the decisions of any other business when something isn’t working, you change the input.

 

[eastman]

Derpus, in my view Foley is quite a good rugby player,but not a world class No 10. All of his good plays last weekend came about when he was playing like or on the wing. His try was vintage winger backing up the mid field line break while his kick assistfor the non-try by DHP was entirely play on the wing. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have the pace tobe a true test quality winger, but he doesn't have the ability tobe a stand out test No 10. A bit like Michael Hooper, good footballer with skill but doesn't fitthe requirements of any position in a conventional rugby sense.

You just said it above yourself- he's a fly- half without the ability to be truly world class. That statement that he doesn't have a conventional position is ridiculous.

 

[liquor box]

there is every likelihood that we will be 0 and 4. I can see a scenario where Johnson steps in as caretaker as you suggest. I think that will definitely happen if we don't win before Samoa.

It would be good, but I cant see it happening.

What possible benefit could there be, the results wont improve with the same team, same set up, same development pathways etc.

I want to see us win every game but can see a benefit of losing a lot of games and forcing the hands of RA to make real changes from the bottom up instead of top down, the top is just the sweet flavored topping that makes you forget about the massive amount of people involved in having a national game.

 

[fatprop]

Fair & reasonable post.

I don’t think anyone expect Lilo to be the “new sound” of rugby, but I think most expect that he be given a decent chance to prove himself. We know what Foley brings, the sample space data is huge, and the results underwhelming. Let’s take some more data and see what we find - just like the decisions of any other business when something isn’t working, you change the input.

Lilo's challenge is his propensity to get deeper and deeper against the good rush defenses, which is frustrating because like Foley, playing flat at the line he does great stuff through contact

 

[KOB1987]

This weekend is probably the biggest test for Cheika during the RC. We were at long odds to beat the Saffas on the weekend and no one would really be expecting us to beat the All Blacks. We are expected to win this weekend however, and if we don't it's going to be a very, bad sign. I think we are half a chance in Perth (because I think the ABs will experiment a bit for some squad spots) but in reality we just want to be competitive in both Bledisloe games and build from there.

 

[RugbyReg]

It would be good, but I cant see it happening.

What possible benefit could there be, the results wont improve with the same team, same set up, same development pathways etc.
.

A change in voice. A change in motivation. I have heard many stories of top players not respecting Cheika and just being over his antics.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yeah, i mean i actually agree. I think he's long past his RWC15 form and hes behind all his counterparts in the RC, be it Sanchez, Pollard, BB, Mo'unga etc.

I just don't think it's a case of Cheika picking a poor player over a better one. I think all our options are subpar and nearing retirement. I want to see Lilo given a chance and i would not even be upset if QC (Quade Cooper) was run out at some point.

The thing i take exception to is the bollocking the guy gets after every single test. He certainly was nowhere near our worst last test. He doesn't deserve it.

Hooper is our best 7 until McReight takes his rightful place as Pocock's heir.

Looking for a No 7 who competes first and foremost for the ball at the breakdown, I have to say I am now wanting to see Liam Wright given a go at 7. No need for MH to camp out in the backline to cover for defensive frailties, so no need for him in the 23 unless the starting 7 is injured.

But seeing that the likes of Pocock and Liam Gill have consistently been passed over in favour of Hooper over the past 5 years, there is no chance in Hell of Wright getting the jersey unless Hooper breaks a leg.

I do agree that one day McReight is likely to take the spot. He is the second coming of David Pocock.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The reality is that Leali'ifano is our only other reasonable 10 option at test level currently.

This suggestion by Bobby Sands that literally any player would do better at 10 than Foley is complete garbage. It's become pretty apparent that several very experienced players who have played a lot of 10 (To'omua, Beale) can't do a better job there.

Cooper is past it and his form fell apart badly in the back end of the Super season.

We have two options currently and I think we will see Leali'ifano get a run as soon as he is healthy (which may be this week).

There is no guarantee that CLL will be better either, but he certainly does warrant a couple of chances as he was the best performing No 10 in Super rugby (Aussie style) this year. I would also argue it is a bit early to discard To'omua from consideration too. He has had one or two opportunities only recently and hasn't stood out, but he probably should have another opportunity to show whether he has the goods or not for No 10 given the lack of an outstanding option.

Maybe it's just the way Cheika wants his No 10 to play that makes them all look a bit meh.

 

[Brumby Runner]

You just said it above yourself- he's a fly- half without the ability to be truly world class. That statement that he doesn't have a conventional position is ridiculous.

What is ridiculous about saying a player who hasn't got the kicking game required of a No 10, can't defend in his own channel and is lacking in ability to set up backline play doesn't have the skills to play as a conventional No 10?

 

[Rugrat]

No, the logic goes - use whoever you want its not going to suddenly turn this team into a winning one.

Tired of people banging on about Foley after every match as if he was the determining factor. He isn't.

That is most of the problem with Foley though, his general play doesn’t determine outcome win or lose. Just consistently average.

 

[Brumby Runner]

It would be good, but I cant see it happening.

What possible benefit could there be, the results wont improve with the same team, same set up, same development pathways etc.

I want to see us win every game but can see a benefit of losing a lot of games and forcing the hands of RA to make real changes from the bottom up instead of top down, the top is just the sweet flavored topping that makes you forget about the massive amount of people involved in having a national game.

I would dispute the results won't improve. Many a team going bad will have almost an immediate improvement when the top man who has proven to be unsuccessful is replaced. Could be for a couple of reasons. The top man might have lost the troups and getting him out of the system will straight away lead to a more committed team willing to work to their full potential. The game plan being implemented by the top man might be totally unsuitable for the players available, or ineffective against certain opposition and a new approach might bring with it an immediate response.

Replacing Cheika before the RWC would not cost a fortune and would be well worth the change if he loses 0 - 4 in TRC.

 

[Derpus]

Yeah man i actually think sacking Cheika would improve results. Classic change agent effect. I reckon Cheikas own success in 15 owed much to the same thing.

Cheika banged on about change and we sure havent seen it yet. If we go 0/4 he should walk.