Aus vs NZ - 1st Test Sydney 17Aug2013

[Braveheart81]

Tip - Robinson will surely be the first choice LHP.

I'm not convinced MMM will rush straight back into the Wallabies. He has one game left to make his mark and whilst everyone can see the big upside he can bring, he hasn't shaken his injury problems and our backrow of Mowen, Hooper and Palu worked quite well.

I really can't see QC (Quade Cooper) being picked as a 15. There are several better players there and this would be a big negative in my book in terms of picking players out of position. Cooper brings an excellent counter attacking game but his high ball catching and one on one tackling are weaker than other candidates.

I don't see Lucas being close to Wallaby selection. He might be able to play halfback but has barely played there all season.

 

[Tip]

Braveheart81
Ewen's previous comments of "you may as well put 15 on his back" regarding him defending at 15 for the Reds are important to remember. Don't be shocked if Quade is 15, but plays 10 in attack and 15 in defense and Toomoa is starting 10.

MMM was f*cked over by Deans, much like Cummins. Was selected in the Lions squad, not released to play for the Force against the Lions, and then not getting a minute of gametime or even a jersey. He's fit, he's been training, he'll be ready to start in 5 weeks time. Ewan knows how good he is, he single handily destroyed the Reds forward pack in their first Derby this year.

As long as I see Hooper on the bench I'm happy. He didn't make 1 turnover all series. Definitely not our first choice seven. Perfect bench player to come on with some hard, fast running on the back 20 of the test.

 

[Braveheart81]

Braveheart81
Ewen's previous comments of "you may as well put 15 on his back" regarding him defending at 15 for the Reds are important to remember. Don't be shocked if Quade is 15, but plays 10 in attack and 15 in defense and Toomoa is starting 10.

MMM was f*cked over by Deans, much like Cummins. Was selected in the Lions squad, not released to play for the Force against the Lions, and then not getting a minute of gametime or even a jersey. He's fit, he's been training, he'll be ready to start in 5 weeks time. Ewan knows how good he is, he single handily destroyed the Reds forward pack in their first Derby this year.

Quade Cooper is one of the Reds best players though. At 15 he lacks the running, tackling and high ball catching game of Folau or the running and kicking game of Mogg. I expect Cooper will be picked at 10 for the next test but I really doubt he'll be picked at 15.

I don't accept that MMM was fucked over by Deans. I think the situation was very similar to his previous career in Australia where injury cruelled his chances. He dominated the early Super Rugby season then spent a long time out injured and had one game back in Super Rugby before the Lions break where he was average and looked like he hadn't played for a long time.

The Force played the Lions before MMM was added to the Lions squad. His non appearance against the Lions had absolutely nothing to do with Deans.

I think he is a reasonable chance for a bench spot but I think he is far from an automatic selection because of injury. If he could string together a period of being healthy prior to squads being selected he would be an automatic pick.

 

[Tip]

MMM was deemed fit enough to play the Tahs, but not the Lions 4 days before? Probably should direct my anger at Foley too, however he didn't pick a useless Australian Bench for the three tests. It's been reiterated before, Simmons doesn't offer as much as Kimlin or MMM off the bench.

 

[Braveheart81]

MMM was deemed fit enough to play the Tahs, but not the Lions 4 days before? Probably should direct my anger at Foley too, however he didn't pick a useless Australian Bench for the three tests. It's been reiterated before, Simmons doesn't offer as much as Kimlin or MMM off the bench.

That is what Foley said. Given that MMM had been out for somewhere around 2 months and was decidedly average for the Tahs game, perhaps he needed those extra four days. Whatever the reality of that situation, it had nothing to do with Deans.

Simmons was selected on the bench because the Wallabies had two lineout callers. Mowen and Simmons. They both needed to be in the 23.

You make it sound like picking a guy who was out for a couple of months and then came back for one average game was a no brainer.

Aside from the JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 issue, the biggest selection issue in most people's opinion would be that picking players who had not played much rugby for a while was a risk and that proved to be true in every case. Ioane, Barnes, Beale and Smith were all well below their best. MMM had spent longer on the sidelines than all of them.

 

[Tip]

MMM would have been a better 20 minute bench player than Simmons at lock or 6, and I don't accept that Horwill can't function as the second lineout caller behind Mowen.

Regarding the no brainer, the biggest no brainer I witnessed in the entire series was picking Kane Douglas as starting second row. That decision obviously was made with no brains.

This decision is the worst I have ever seen. Not only does he choose the biggest waste of space in Timani first, when he's injured they choose the next biggest and useless Second row in NSW, Douglas!

 

[Braveheart81]

MMM would have been a better 20 minute bench player than Simmons at lock or 6, and I don't accept that Horwill can't function as the second lineout caller behind Mowen.

Regarding the no brainer, the biggest no brainer I witnessed in the entire series was picking Kane Douglas as starting second row. That decision obviously was made with no brains.

This decision is the worst I have ever seen. Not only does he choose the biggest waste of space in Timani first, when he's injured they choose the next biggest and useless Second row in NSW, Douglas!

Douglas had an average series but saying his selection was the worst you've ever seen is absolutely ridiculous.

Who would you have picked as the other starting lock?

I'm guessing you're going to say Pyle yet he was injured as well.

Kimlin only really got on people's radar from his performance against the Lions but prior to that very few people would have picked him in the squad. His best football this season certainly hasn't been at lock.

Your second lineout caller is going to be on the bench because they're there as a contingency plan. After the first test, the rest of the series was spent with the threat of suspension hanging over Horwill's head. They're not about to train him up as the second lineout caller when he might not be playing. He's already got the responsibility of captain and whilst he has called the lineout for the Reds, it isn't his customary role. Simmons does that.

 

[Tip]

Braveheart81 Fardy, AWH, Neville, Jones, Battye, Lynn & Wykes. All of these offer more than Douglas, who never performed his primary role as a second row, jumping in the lineout.

I'm trying to think of a worse pick over the last 10 years and I can't, though my memory is shotty at best.

 

[Braveheart81]

Braveheart81 Fardy, AWH, Neville, Jones, Battye, Lynn & Wykes. All of these offer more than Douglas, who never performed his primary role as a second row, jumping in the lineout.

I'm trying to think of a worse pick over the last 10 years and I can't, though my memory is shotty at best.

Let's agree to disagree.

I think the internet would have gone into meltdown if any of those players had been picked to start at lock against the Lions. Half of those players you listed can't even make the starting side in their Super Rugby team.

Also, our lineout functioned well against the Lions.

 

[auburn]

First post and all, I'd probably go with this as a starting back line
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Tomane
12. Lifi
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Folau
15. Mogg
I'd also definately include Beale and James O Conner in the team, with Beale being my replacement 10 or 15, and JOC (James O'Connor) being my replacement Wing, 12 and or 15.

Also, Burgess should get a run, he has proved himself at test level and is a great 9.

As for forwards;
I'm not sure about the front row,
But my back row and locks would be
4. Horwill
5. Simmons
6. Gill
7. Hooper
8. Mowen

Any thoughts?

 

[Zander]

Braveheart81 Fardy, AWH, Neville, Jones, Battye, Lynn & Wykes. All of these offer more than Douglas, who never performed his primary role as a second row, jumping in the lineout.

I'm trying to think of a worse pick over the last 10 years and I can't, though my memory is shotty at best.

Battye, Lynn, Wykes, Wallace-Harrison, Neville, Jones all better than Douglas? Turn it up. Fardy has some claim but he was never going to get picked, Carter would be ahead of him yet you didn't even mention his name. Clueless.

 

[It is what it is]

First post and all, I'd probably go with this as a starting back line
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Tomane
12. Lifi
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Folau
15. Mogg
I'd also definately include Beale and James O Conner in the team, with Beale being my replacement 10 or 15, and JOC (James O'Connor) being my replacement Wing, 12 and or 15.

Also, Burgess should get a run, he has proved himself at test level and is a great 9.

As for forwards;
I'm not sure about the front row,
But my back row and locks would be
4. Horwill
5. Simmons
6. Gill
7. Hooper
8. Mowen

Any thoughts?

Welcome Auburn and not a bad effort.
Back row looks a little light and agree that Mogg probably deserves a shot now.

 

[Slim 293]

Braveheart81 Fardy, AWH, Neville, Jones, Battye, Lynn & Wykes. All of these offer more than Douglas, who never performed his primary role as a second row, jumping in the lineout.

I'm trying to think of a worse pick over the last 10 years and I can't, though my memory is shotty at best.

AWH, Neville, Jones, Battye, Lynn and Wykes?

 

[Starch]

I suspect we are addicted to the dream of a powerhouse second rower rippling with physicality, and this makes us see Douglas and Timani as the messiahs, when at international level, in reality, they seem no more powerhouse or physical than the traditional jumping second rowers they are pushing out.

 

[Zander]

Douglas looked considerably better than Simmons in physicality stakes. Douglas was certainly average throughout the series but that doesn't mean he was not the best man for the job. No one would've done better.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^How many Lineouts are there in a "normal" Test as compared to scrums?

Of the scrums that are awarded, how many actually become pushing contests and what % are decided by a penalty before the ball is put in?

Accuracy and timing rather than sheer brute strength seems to be a hallmark of the modern breakdown/tackle contest.

In setting and countering the rolling maul, which has become a rather potent attacking weapon, it is all about body position and height not just mass.

Bottom line - Lineout Jumpers, who are smart, fit and accurate at breakdown time are needed.

 

[Athilnaur]

I'd have Pyle over Simmons or Douglas any day of the week. Smart player who puts in and finds a way.

 

[Starch]

A good h

Douglas looked considerably better than Simmons in physicality stakes. Douglas was certainly average throughout the series but that doesn't mean he was not the best man for the job. No one would've done better.

a good head to head tonight.
I think douglas was more abrasive and physical ( in the first half); but simmons more effective overall.
I would like to see douglas start in the first test: and simmons in the week after

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Not sure QC (Quade Cooper) did enough to get a run on slot for Gold for this game. A few unforced errors which the Lords Of Darkness will be happy to see. His defence was by and large solid. SHould be enough to get in the squad if not the bench.

 

[Sully]

Not sure QC (Quade Cooper) did enough to get a run on slot for Gold for this game. A few unforced errors which the Lords Of Darkness will be happy to see. His defence was by and large solid. SHould be enough to get in the squad if not the bench.

Cooper is a 100 per cent chance of being the 10 against New Zealand.

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