ARU take over the Western Force.
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The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
That's a fair comment TOCC. I believe we can support five teams but the Euro money does make it hard to hang on to the players. This is why the development pathways and opportunities for the players we *do* have need to be workable. For me the NRC is one of the key ways to achieve this. The overseas exodus is less of an issue if we have the pipeline continuously being refreshed with young blokes coming through club footy and the NRC teams. We have no control over what the European teams do or our partners in SANZAAR, we can only worry about our own back yard. It's also why the Wallaby product has to be first class, in order to attract the sponsors and media rights dollars that keep the whole thing on track.
It means we're always going flat out but I don't see too many other options.
It means we're always going flat out but I don't see too many other options.
Highlander35
Steve Williams (59)
Transfer fees only work when players are contracted. Don't see many players leaving when they are.
Can't see players at Club or NRC level signing any sort of long term agreement if it prevents any sort of professional move. ITM and Currie Cup probably, but not in Australia.
Anything beyond the ability to buy out a contract opens up a can of worms.
GaffaCHinO
Peter Sullivan (51)
One thing that is never discussed which has also had a effect (a large effect imo) on the development of the force was the introduction of the Rebels.
It robbed them of the next crop of young players like PAE jones Inman players who the club would have been counting on playing a large part in the clubs future aswell as access to a larger pool of players from the east because why would you come to perth when now they could play down the road at the Rebels.
Now before you say it the above is not me having a go at the Rebels or anyone else or a wine about how bad we have it in the west just an observation which is rearly talked about especially when ppl point out the lack of development from the force imagine the damage that would be done to the Rebels now if say a 6th team was added in western Sydney or even if the force were moved it would still have a huge effect on the Rebels.
It robbed them of the next crop of young players like PAE jones Inman players who the club would have been counting on playing a large part in the clubs future aswell as access to a larger pool of players from the east because why would you come to perth when now they could play down the road at the Rebels.
Now before you say it the above is not me having a go at the Rebels or anyone else or a wine about how bad we have it in the west just an observation which is rearly talked about especially when ppl point out the lack of development from the force imagine the damage that would be done to the Rebels now if say a 6th team was added in western Sydney or even if the force were moved it would still have a huge effect on the Rebels.
half
Dick Tooth (41)
Just on the Force a mate of mine was transferred to Perth just over two years ago.
He tells me that the Perth soccer team Perth Glory are under new management this year a guy they got from Melbourne and he has turned the club around off the field.
I am going on my mates local knowledge and his talking to locals. But he says the soccer club has been poor for a number of years recently after being a big hit a number of years ago.
Essentially my mate has put it all or most of it down to the new CEO who has run a strong grass roots and back to basics.
Just wondering if the Force may have been suffering similar managerial issues and is it time to find a manager who is kinda like a man in the street with smarts enough to kiss those backsides that need kissing but smart enough to drag in the local players and supporters. Or if the guy is as good as the reports pinch him because he also has lots of AFL knowledge and experience.
He tells me that the Perth soccer team Perth Glory are under new management this year a guy they got from Melbourne and he has turned the club around off the field.
I am going on my mates local knowledge and his talking to locals. But he says the soccer club has been poor for a number of years recently after being a big hit a number of years ago.
Essentially my mate has put it all or most of it down to the new CEO who has run a strong grass roots and back to basics.
Just wondering if the Force may have been suffering similar managerial issues and is it time to find a manager who is kinda like a man in the street with smarts enough to kiss those backsides that need kissing but smart enough to drag in the local players and supporters. Or if the guy is as good as the reports pinch him because he also has lots of AFL knowledge and experience.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Half, I think your mate is mostly right. The Glory endured a pretty tumultuous time in the last few years but have certainly turned things around. There is certainly a lot more positive energy around them now and the crowds are coming back as a result.
The situation is in no way hopeless.
The situation is in no way hopeless.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
I think it is pretty obvious that this year the playing depth of all the sides is being very heavily tested, not only by those who have left but by injuries. Also being thoroughly shown up is the lack of depth in skills training. I just don't think we have the depth in either playing numbers at the required level or in the coaches to actually get the players up to a high enough standard.
The Force whilst they again did what they do best and gave a good showing I don't think anybody ever really thought that they would win. This is not to disparage the efforts of the players there can be no doubt whatsoever that they really put in. But the fact is that away from defence and set piece the skills of all the Australian players are just substandard. How many kicks are pop gun, misdirected or so telegraphed they are easily charged? How many passes are to the recipient's feet, above their head or behind them? How many knock ons in a game?
This is not just an attack on the Force, they were the best performed of all the Australian sides this weekend just gone. The Brumbies were woeful, the Rebels and Tahs on a race to the bottom in regards to skill standards.
Playing numbers is only one factor to consider whether the Australian conference can sustain 5 teams. Coaching and development systems are also a requirement and frankly a short stint of NRC will not address the skills deficit that a long sustained coaching program can. I have heard here enough that at the elite level basic skills are cannot be the focus of the coaching staff with limited time. In that case then it will not be the focus of a NRC coach either who has a very short window with the players. It comes back to the disparaged clubs.
The Force whilst they again did what they do best and gave a good showing I don't think anybody ever really thought that they would win. This is not to disparage the efforts of the players there can be no doubt whatsoever that they really put in. But the fact is that away from defence and set piece the skills of all the Australian players are just substandard. How many kicks are pop gun, misdirected or so telegraphed they are easily charged? How many passes are to the recipient's feet, above their head or behind them? How many knock ons in a game?
This is not just an attack on the Force, they were the best performed of all the Australian sides this weekend just gone. The Brumbies were woeful, the Rebels and Tahs on a race to the bottom in regards to skill standards.
Playing numbers is only one factor to consider whether the Australian conference can sustain 5 teams. Coaching and development systems are also a requirement and frankly a short stint of NRC will not address the skills deficit that a long sustained coaching program can. I have heard here enough that at the elite level basic skills are cannot be the focus of the coaching staff with limited time. In that case then it will not be the focus of a NRC coach either who has a very short window with the players. It comes back to the disparaged clubs.
p.Tah
John Thornett (49)
So in the last week we've had articles from:
Paul Cully -SMH
Wayne Smith - the Australian
Siro Zavros - SMH
Matt Burke - SMH
All saying Australia's talent pool is stretched too far across 5 Franchises and we need to contract.
Often these articles appear when We're doing poorly but 4 in one week seems unusual.
Coincidence or calculated PR campaign by 'someone'?
Paul Cully -SMH
Wayne Smith - the Australian
Siro Zavros - SMH
Matt Burke - SMH
All saying Australia's talent pool is stretched too far across 5 Franchises and we need to contract.
Often these articles appear when We're doing poorly but 4 in one week seems unusual.
Coincidence or calculated PR campaign by 'someone'?
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
The problem starts early.
To get a Super contract you need the schoolboy resume.
Most with schoolboy resume have been in the elite koala club squads since 16.( where they excelled by being early physical developers & being faster/stronger/quicker than their peers)
training with these squads are basically 90% weights & breakdown drills.
Once you leave School the next step is 20's where the emphasis is being able to match the physically of men.
Skills are a secondary consideration.
Should we be surprised that we are producing strong athletic types with below standard skills?
To get a Super contract you need the schoolboy resume.
Most with schoolboy resume have been in the elite koala club squads since 16.( where they excelled by being early physical developers & being faster/stronger/quicker than their peers)
training with these squads are basically 90% weights & breakdown drills.
Once you leave School the next step is 20's where the emphasis is being able to match the physically of men.
Skills are a secondary consideration.
Should we be surprised that we are producing strong athletic types with below standard skills?
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
Wayne Smith is saying stay with 5 franchises.
So that's a nay squad from SMH.
Paul Cully is at least a good rugby writer. I'd say he's the best they've got, but the rest of their commentators ain't much.
formerflanker
Ken Catchpole (46)
I must have missed it - can someone point me towards the definition of intellectual property that the ARU has purchased from the Force?
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
Logo designs, naming, blah, blah, blah.
It was essentially a pretext to loan them $800k.
Mind you, when the Waratahs and Reds were going bust, the ARU just gave them loans without this malarkey.
Times have moved on since then. I believe the ARU also retained the Rebels' IP rights.
T
TOCC
Guest
Yeah but in the case of the Reds and Tahs the ARU took up positions on the board of the Tahs and Reds and in effect held a majority vote on all issues. Those boards(Reds& Tahs) took a loan which comes with its own conditions, the Force have taken a grant or payment which has no impact on how they operate day to day and no requirement to pay that money back.
lou75
Ron Walden (29)
Intellectual property is usually classified as an Asset. Definition of an Asset is 'resource controlled by the entity as a result of past events from which future economic benefits are expected' - I'm just not sure what future economic benefits ARU can expect, so technically ...
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
I think you'll find, when the details are revealed next month, that the Force will be 100% controlled from the bunker in Sydney. There will be staff cuts in Perth as roles are moved east.
Meh. The name and branding of the team have been sold. I suspect that RugbyWA will never regain full ownership of the Force in the way that QRU have at the Reds. It's being positioned for private equity.
lou75
Ron Walden (29)
Don't put your hopes in the Sydney bunker - Rob Clarke, the GM Professional Rugby, Marketing Media Communications and Operations will be in charge - here is his track record in running franchises:
In 2003 -2005 Rob Clarke was appointed CEO of ACT Brumbies. He led the restructuring program to transform the Brumbies brand in to an economically unsustainable and business that is now reduced to selling assets having made a profit in one out of the last eleven years. (In response to on field success in 2004, Clarke sacked the coach, David Nucifora, who had been named Australian coach of the year for 2002-2004 having taken the ACT Brumbies to three consecutive finals before winning the 2004 Super 12 tournament.)
In 2006 – 07 Clarke sat in the 2IC chair at ARU as the COO for Gary Flowers where he managed the failed ARC, losing the ARU a cool $5.48 million (- $2.4 million of which was allocated to the VRU.)
In 2013-2014 Pulver appointed Clarke as CEO of RaboDirect Melbourne Rebels where he lost the ARU a further $8.3 million over two seasons.
From 2014 – present Clarke went back to the ARU where he and Pulver signed off on the Melbourne Rebels sale to Andrew Cox for a previously undisclosed amount which has been revealed as $6 million to the buyer over the next five years.
T
TOCC
Guest
It might but the sale of the IP rights is separate from the Force ownership restructure. Both are related to financial issues, but the IP sale wasn't conditional on the ARU assuming ownership.
RugbyWA still retain ownership and the board still reserve the power to make a decision on the future ownership structure of the Force.
dru
David Wilson (68)
I think IP is a lot more than just an excuse. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in NSW the Waratahs name is effectively IP owned by the NSWRU. Its used to sell a license yo the professional operator - Waratahs Limited.
That license returns funds to the Provincial Union, from recollection something around $1M + 5%.
So it is a way to give the professional arm enough rope to run a professional sporting business, and gain commercial advantafe, and hold some governance style control.
I like the way NSW have this set up. Better than the Reds "High Performance recommendations" in my view. And a good model for WA.
That license returns funds to the Provincial Union, from recollection something around $1M + 5%.
So it is a way to give the professional arm enough rope to run a professional sporting business, and gain commercial advantafe, and hold some governance style control.
I like the way NSW have this set up. Better than the Reds "High Performance recommendations" in my view. And a good model for WA.
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