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ARU Junior Gold Cup - National Junior Championships

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Chris McCracken

Jim Clark (26)
The so called 'elite rugby schools' are the only group doing anything to increase participation in the game.

While I accept that that is true for the most part, I take some exception with that idea. Clubs are growing the game where the schools you describe aren't -Often in spite of barriers put up by bodies like the ARU.

I believe that is the main reason we have JGC - to improve the outcomes for both club and school athletes as they transition to Colts.
 

Chris McCracken

Jim Clark (26)
Reading all these comments and am quiet confused whether the JGC and then subsequent selection in the state team is recognised as an acheivement for any of these young boys? Or are they just the best of the rest?
I dont live near, nor can I offord a private school for my son, so does he just hang up his boots now?
Im pretty sure if kids are good enough they get noticed regardless. my public school son was part of the Waratahs Gen blue sqaud this year, and trained beside some of these private school boys. I didnt even realised that Tim Wrapp knew his name, let alone his phone number..
I beleive if your kid has talent, regardless of pathway, he will be found.. And lets face it you need the $$version then the blue collar version of any game.

I have the same situation as you do. My son and his friends succeed in spite of being located in a place where they would ordinarily be ignored but for JGC. Four players from Western NSW will play for the NSW JGC team and I can assure you that they certainly see it as an achievement.

I'm very pleased for your son and I'll let my own players know of his success as people who move forward from less traditional places inspire them to improve.
 

BraveandGame

Bob Loudon (25)
While I accept that that is true for the most part, I take some exception with that idea. Clubs are growing the game where the schools you describe aren't -Often in spite of barriers put up by bodies like the ARU.

I believe that is the main reason we have JGC - to improve the outcomes for both club and school athletes as they transition to Colts.



Agreed I should have added 'effective' to my statement - i didnt mean to belittle those hard working volunteers at the club level who do what they can with little to no resources - actually they are no longer just ignored by the ARU they are effectively burdened by them.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
The problem is that you can have a "unified" system but the current major rugby school systems do not want or need it and wont play in it.
I think JGC addresses that issue but imperfectly.
The schools do not have the same agenda: everyone on this site is a rugby nut but the schools have to cater to a broader community and they generally play the other schools in their group in many sports other than rugby.
Australian Rugby needs those school systems more than they need the ARU.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
The problem is that you can have a "unified" system but the current major rugby school systems do not want or need it and wont play in it.
<snip>

Evidence by the almost total absence of any AAGPS school from the Waratah Shield 1st XV competition. While Scots won it in 1990, I can not recall any AAGPS School entering that competition this century.
 

Happy to Chat

Nev Cottrell (35)
You are correct. But imperfect is better than nothing at all in the short term.
In the end it is the quality of the coaching at the base level we should focus on whether it be private schooling where expert coaching, physio and ice baths after the games are the norm or the club training where volunteer Dads or retired players are coaching, we all strive to get the best for our kids. If putting your kid in a private school for expert training or standing next to the training field supporting your son at club practice or games is what it takes, we should do it, not knock the systems that afford them that opportunity.
 

Chris McCracken

Jim Clark (26)
In the end it is the quality of the coaching at the base level we should focus on whether it be private schooling where expert coaching, physio and ice baths after the games are the norm or the club training where volunteer Dads or retired players are coaching, we all strive to get the best for our kids. If putting your kid in a private school for expert training or standing next to the training field supporting your son at club practice or games is what it takes, we should do it, not knock the systems that afford them that opportunity.

You seem to suggest club junior footy and expert coaching are mutually exclusive.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
My view, for what its worth, is that junior coaching to about 13 requires nothing more than imparting the basics to 95% of the kids.
The other 5% can handle a bit more but in my experience they're already out there finding it out.
Where we get let down at senior level is in not doing the basics well - see my signature below
 

Sunny

Ted Fahey (11)
While I accept that that is true for the most part, I take some exception with that idea. Clubs are growing the game where the schools you describe aren't -Often in spite of barriers put up by bodies like the ARU.

I believe that is the main reason we have JGC - to improve the outcomes for both club and school athletes as they transition to Colts.

I agree the clubs are trying to grow and improve the game, and it is hinder somewhat by some private schools by not allowing boys to play both.
now correct me if I'm wrong, but by senior school some not all boys will be asked, told to limit their club participation.
Can anyone tell me if this is the case?
 

Happy to Chat

Nev Cottrell (35)
I agree the clubs are trying to grow and improve the game, and it is hinder somewhat by some private schools by not allowing boys to play both.
now correct me if I'm wrong, but by senior school some not all boys will be asked, told to limit their club participation.
Can anyone tell me if this is the case?
The schools try to encourage participation in all sports but even if a kid is playing rugby for a club and the school, in Qld certainly, the clubs play during the second term and the school plays in the 3rd term, this makes for a long season especially in the later years with hard rugby. In my experience the school plays in the club competition until grade 8 and then they play in the school comp.
 

Sunny

Ted Fahey (11)
Oh, ok
So really there are scheduling issues that have club and school clash.
Pitty really, guess no one wants to budge hence the numbers playing club dropping from high school age up.
How many rounds is the private school comp run over?
 

Happy to Chat

Nev Cottrell (35)
Oh, ok
So really there are scheduling issues that have club and school clash.
Pitty really, guess no one wants to budge hence the numbers playing club dropping from high school age up.
How many rounds is the private school comp run over?
9 rounds in GPS Qld I know it's not the best method but the outcome is good in that the boys operate as a team spending time together at school as well, builds a comeraderie and great team spirit.
 

Sunny

Ted Fahey (11)
Ok, umm that not many. So what 10 schools in the comp I guess.
Thought it would have been 15/18 rounds maybe, similar to club.
So with only 9 games it fits into 1 term of school then?
I'd think Junior Gold Cup really doesn't conflict as its on at a totally different time of the year.
Can't see why I hear some,and I mean only some GPS kids don't play Gold Cup, because of school.
 

sarcophilus

Charlie Fox (21)
refer to the thread "That shall not be named"
or "school boy sporting scholarships"
if a school is paying your way you do as you are told
even without assistance preferential treatment in the entry queue may mean subordination is required
(Hi mods I am only answering the question please be gentle with me}
you must repair to the chamber of secretes to discus this further
 

Oldschool

Jim Clark (26)
Looking through the QLD list for the U15's they have picked a very mobile pack. Don't know much about the U17's. Any one have some insight to either the NSW or QLD teams?
 

emuarse

Chilla Wilson (44)


Selections are weird for U17 Qld side.
The Brisbane Pink won the 'C' pool over Sunshine Coast, Ipswich, and Brisbane Purple, and yet get only two selections in the state side. Sunshine Coast get 5, Brisbane Purple 4, and Ipswich 3. Logan in Pool 'D' got 5 even.

What gives? When Brisbane Purple get 4 selected, and yet only won 1 game!!
Smacks of cronyism. (No disrespect intended for Brisbane Purple).

Its not so much what numbers in the state squad the other teams got, but what Brisbane Pink didn't get for their efforts, especially when you consider what lack of training time they had after their first game had to be postponed.
 

William Wallace

Herbert Moran (7)
Selections are weird for U17 Qld side.
The Brisbane Pink won the 'C' pool over Sunshine Coast, Ipswich, and Brisbane Purple, and yet get only two selections in the state side. Sunshine Coast get 5, Brisbane Purple 4, and Ipswich 3. Logan in Pool 'D' got 5 even.

What gives? When Brisbane Purple get 4 selected, and yet only won 1 game!!
Smacks of cronyism. (No disrespect intended for Brisbane Purple).

Its not so much what numbers in the state squad the other teams got, but what Brisbane Pink didn't get for their efforts, especially when you consider what lack of training time they had after their first game had to be postponed.


Totally agree. Logan only had 5 tries scored against them in 300 minutes of rugby and not one through the back line. Yet, can manage only 5 forwards selected. Backs obviously didn't play! Logan go down 19-12 against the North conference winners verse conference C winners going down 33-0. Only 7 players in total from pool D.
 

Westie

Sydney Middleton (9)
In State schools, and many small private schools, the sport/physical education component of the curriculum is timetabled to occur mid-week, which frees up the weekend for the kids. Unlike New Zealand, there is no tradition of State Schools and small private schools participating in Saturday sporting competitions. Most of the mid week sport/physical education periods in these schools are not formal inter-school sporting games, but are more likely to be intra-school informal minor games or exercise related activities.

In a small number of certain (often referred to as Elite) private schools in NSW and Qld, they allocate sport for Saturday and in doing so free up timetable space mid week for other lessons. Those schools also run aggressive summer and winter sports seasons with not much time for "non-traditional" 1st XV rugby matches.

Looking between the lines of the wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_First_XV_Championship_(New_Zealand) on NZ school rugby, their approach is that they play their regular district inter-school games on weekends, and the Big Rugby Schools seem to somehow schedule the "Traditionals" (probably the equivalent to the AAGPS, Qld GPS, and CAS games) in around their graded local school competitions games.

The Sporting calendar is so entrenched in the AAGPS, CAS, ISA, Qld GPS, and QLD QIC culture and psyche that it is a major point of difference of their "brand" that they are not going to change a fundamental component of their package to suit the development needs of the peak body of one of their sports offerings. While 1st XV performance is a major component in defining the school, their educative philosophy also places value in participating in team sports for the 13H's, 15D's and 7th XV, with the vast majority of the latter of little interest to the ARU Clipboards.

The State Schools and small private schools are never going to move to compulsory Saturday Sport, or even a model where there is only 1 rugby team per year group playing under the school banner on a weekend. Junior Village Clubs have filled this vacuum but are unable to effectively integrate into a combined schools/clubs competition in Sydney and Brisbane by sheer weight of numbers. Schools like Oakhill, St Pats, Waverley and Cranbrook will have about 20 rugby teams each from U13-U18, with Joeys, Kings and Shore having up to double that number.

When ARU are taxing the grass roots to prop up the game, it's patently obvious that very little will be done to grow the game in new areas. Operating on the smell of an oily rag against a rumoured $25m AFL junior development budget (Sydney Metro only) and the rumoured $12m that NRL and NRL Clubs tip into junior loig (Sydney only) the end result should not surprise.

If the State Schools and small private schools are not interested and most Junior Village Clubs struggle to put one team together at U15 and above, and the ARU have no money left, we should be very thankful that AAGPS, CAS, ISA, Qld GPS and AIC run rugby games to keep our game alive.

Junior Gold Cup helps.


Thank you sir. May I have another. ..
 
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