ARU Junior Gold Cup - National Junior Championships

[First phase]

yes that is very bloody odd because I should be receiving these as a club president and this is the first time I have seen this document!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

yes that is very bloody odd because I should be receiving these as a club president and this is the first time I have seen this document!

that's where i got this: from the president or someone

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Maybe it is not just 13 year old players who's Dance Cards are marked "Don't look at" even though they haven't seen then and have no intention of seeing them.

Is it possible that the JGC folk and the Clipboarders have entire clubs marked as "Don't communicate with"?

 

[First phase]

Maybe like the u16's they have already picked the teams here and the trials are just a good way to fill up a vacant Sunday morning.

 

[S'UP]

Maybe like the u16's they have already picked the teams here and the trials are just a good way to fill up a vacant Sunday morning.

If they trial you'll be hard pressed to find a boy who didn't play in the invitational last weekend that isn't picked, so thats a very large % of the total number. Plenty of them will trial as it will be $10 cheaper

 

[Shane Smeltz]

I'm guessing there is just one U15 (Yr 9) player who doesn't have to pay his $10.

Everyone else born in 1999 and might like to trial, mum and dad get your wallet out.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If they trial you'll be hard pressed to find a boy who didn't play in the invitational last weekend that isn't picked, so thats a very large % of the total number. Plenty of them will trial as it will be $10 cheaper

People tell me that many are not going to bother.

 

[S'UP]

People tell me that many are not going to bother.

I think people might be right, if you are already on the clipboard why bother. I originally thought JGC was for those boys not on the clipboard already, I think the invitational weekend showed there are boys out there how can play but they just don't get the opportunity. We need to expand the pool not keep it the same.

 

[Quick Hands]

People tell me that many are not going to bother.

I've spoken to quite a few boys over the past month who played last year and most aren't going to do it again. They weren't 100% happy with how it was run, but the main reason given is that their bodies just need a rest. Boys who played 15s last year have had almost 2 years of constant rugby.

I think this is a good concept, but it has to be part of an overarching review and restructure of junior rugby - not another level laid on top.

 

[S'UP]

part of the issue was training and playing in such heat, some centres trained at 3pm on a sunday afternoon, so the boys could get used to games at 3pm. There are a lot of hours in the day why not play at 5pm till 7pm or 6pm to 8pm there is enough light and it might be a bit cooler. Training shgould be early in the morning or very late in the afternoon.

 

[S'UP]

I've spoken to quite a few boys over the past month who played last year and most aren't going to do it again. They weren't 100% happy with how it was run, but the main reason given is that their bodies just need a rest. Boys who played 15s last year have had almost 2 years of constant rugby.

I think this is a good concept, but it has to be part of an overarching review and restructure of junior rugby - not another level laid on top.

What about you pick your gold squads after the state champs, let schools and SJRU pick there sides, train from June to October and have a festival of rugby in the October long weekend. Same age groups, two pools of 4 or 3 pools of 4 (if QLD, VIC or WA come) Run it just like the state champs but the boys would have had 4 months of elite coaching etc

 

[Quick Hands]

What about you pick your gold squads after the state champs, let schools and SJRU pick there sides, train from June to October and have a festival of rugby in the October long weekend. Same age groups, two pools of 4 or 3 pools of 4 (if QLD, VIC or WA come) Run it just like the state champs but the boys would have had 4 months of elite coaching etc

I suggested something similar months ago - maybe on another thread. Although I'm not a fan of the State Championships long weekend in June. Just use that weekend as your trials, pick your JGC squads, and as you say play the JGC in September/October.

 

[Brainstrust]

I know a few of the selectors from last years JGC and I want to put up a different perspective on this. The idea on this thread that 1) Boys are marked as not to view or be considered, 2) that some clubs are marked not to engage with, 3) that boys are on some list and accordingly do not need to play is just utter crap. The selection process last year in the JGC, as its first year was as open and as transparent as could be. That doesn't meant that every selection was correct, but the selectors did their best to ensure that every boy from wherever was equally considered. The notion that clubs are disadvantaged is also dribble. Finally last year, as I have been reliably told, ARU scouts were allocated to all of the JGC games, and not necessarily to school or club games, HPU staff handled what they could there. So if boys in the 15 and 17 year age groups want to be seen then this program is the perfect opportunity. If they don't then no problem and I'm sure if they are good enough players they will be talked about and watched. Bottom line is that the ARU are genuinely trying to provide a clearer pathway for boys, and are trying to ensure that as many boys get identified if good enough. It just isn't in their brief , nor is it in their intention to minimise their pool of talented players.

 

[S'UP]

I know a few of the selectors from last years JGC and I want to put up a different perspective on this. The idea on this thread that 1) Boys are marked as not to view or be considered, 2) that some clubs are marked not to engage with, 3) that boys are on some list and accordingly do not need to play is just utter crap. The selection process last year in the JGC, as its first year was as open and as transparent as could be. That doesn't meant that every selection was correct, but the selectors did their best to ensure that every boy from wherever was equally considered. The notion that clubs are disadvantaged is also dribble. Finally last year, as I have been reliably told, ARU scouts were allocated to all of the JGC games, and not necessarily to school or club games, HPU staff handled what they could there. So if boys in the 15 and 17 year age groups want to be seen then this program is the perfect opportunity. If they don't then no problem and I'm sure if they are good enough players they will be talked about and watched. Bottom line is that the ARU are genuinely trying to provide a clearer pathway for boys, and are trying to ensure that as many boys get identified if good enough. It just isn't in their brief , nor is it in their intention to minimise their pool of talented players.

I think 2 of the points you refer to are from my comment about a discussion I had with the ARU a couple of years back when it was the JGS and unfortunately in relation to my conversation you are 100% incorrect, unless the ARU are telling me lies to piss me off. I'm not saying things might not have changed but they were the facts and they were relevant to the conversation at the time and not once did I mention last years JGC selections, i know what the process was and it was as fair as it could be. I'm not sure anyone has mentioned that clubs have been disadvantaged but I could be wrong. The whole point of the selection discussion has been about transparency and unfortunately it is far from transparent. One thing that is transparent is when a selectors talks to families, greets boys on a first name basis, makes an effort to shake dads hand etc etc, but doesn't give the next boy the time of day, it creates a poor perception of the whole process, as fair as it was some boys look favoured over others, you only have to listen to the parents talk to work that out. I understand people have friendship but everything is about perception and those friendship shouldn't be shown at selection days.
I would ask you why did a select group of boys get personalise invitations to the JGC trials, why have very few club actually seen the flyer, why do certain 16 year olds not have to pay the trial fee, why are a smaller group of 16 year old taken to special training just for them.
As for the high performance guys watching games at the JGC if what I witnessed at the numerous games I watched it wasn't all that flash.
And yes the ARU are trying very hard and I am fully supportive of the program and I also email and talk to the organisers about some of the concerns I raise on this forum and some I don't raise here.

 

[Brainstrust]

I think 2 of the points you refer to are from my comment about a discussion I had with the ARU a couple of years back when it was the JGS and unfortunately in relation to my conversation you are 100% incorrect, unless the ARU are telling me lies to piss me off. I'm not saying things might not have changed but they were the facts and they were relevant to the conversation at the time and not once did I mention last years JGC selections, i know what the process was and it was as fair as it could be. I'm not sure anyone has mentioned that clubs have been disadvantaged but I could be wrong. The whole point of the selection discussion has been about transparency and unfortunately it is far from transparent. One thing that is transparent is when a selectors talks to families, greets boys on a first name basis, makes an effort to shake dads hand etc etc, but doesn't give the next boy the time of day, it creates a poor perception of the whole process, as fair as it was some boys look favoured over others, you only have to listen to the parents talk to work that out. I understand people have friendship but everything is about perception and those friendship shouldn't be shown at selection days.
I would ask you why did a select group of boys get personalise invitations to the JGC trials, why have very few club actually seen the flyer, why do certain 16 year olds not have to pay the trial fee, why are a smaller group of 16 year old taken to special training just for them.
As for the high performance guys watching games at the JGC if what I witnessed at the numerous games I watched it wasn't all that flash.
And yes the ARU are trying very hard and I am fully supportive of the program and I also email and talk to the organisers about some of the concerns I raise on this forum and some I don't raise here.

All i can report on is what I believe was the case as recently as last year, and maybe things have changed, which is demonstrated by the JGS/JGC changing. I dont know what they are doing this year but the process seems to have changed again from what I can gather. But one thing is for sure and that is why I do not spend my life on these pages, but check in periodically. It seems unless you are peddling a negative spin on everything and think there is some hidden agenda by selectors and the ARU to rub every one out and ruin boys careers at the age of 15 yrs, your comments are rarely well received. Good luck with it, with a few of you guys trying to shape public opinion of the game down the shitter, even more than a few of the over paid and indulged fools at the top level, the game is in good hands.

 

[S'UP]

All i can report on is what I believe was the case as recently as last year, and maybe things have changed, which is demonstrated by the JGS/JGC changing. I dont know what they are doing this year but the process seems to have changed again from what I can gather. But one thing is for sure and that is why I do not spend my life on these pages, but check in periodically. It seems unless you are peddling a negative spin on everything and think there is some hidden agenda by selectors and the ARU to rub every one out and ruin boys careers at the age of 15 yrs, your comments are rarely well received. Good luck with it, with a few of you guys trying to shape public opinion of the game down the shitter, even more than a few of the over paid and indulged fools at the top level, the game is in good hands.

LOL, yes the whole 222 post I have made are all about bring the game down, when I go back to work they will revert back to next to zero. As with most people on this site we are interested spectators in junior rugby and a large number of us work really hard for junior rugby, we also have opinions and this is the forum we share them right or wrong and I'm sure you are the same.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

LOL, yes the whole 222 post I have made are all about bring the game down, when I go back to work they will revert back to next to zero. As with most people on this site we are interested spectators in junior rugby and a large number of us work really hard for junior rugby, we also have opinions and this is the forum we share them right or wrong and I'm sure you are the same.

I've always lacked your self control S'UP

 

[S'UP]

I've always lacked your self control S'UP

IS you know what they say about opinions, everyone has one. Some share some don't and unfortunately the majority (me included) share our opinions about the things we don't like more often than we do about the things we do like, the old adage if it ain't broken don't fix it. But if you think it is broken or something is good speak up share your experience and see if other people with similar interests agree or disagree and then you and other people can either form or change your opinion. That's what forums are for IMO. The more people that join the conversation the better IMO, it's just unfortunate that when joining the discussion people sometimes feel the need make it personal instead of stating their opinion or they mix the two. If I defended someone I knew on these forums every time a post was directed towards them I'd spend my life on here which would be a waste.

 

[10to12]

I think 2 of the points you refer to are from my comment about a discussion I had with the ARU a couple of years back when it was the JGS and unfortunately in relation to my conversation you are 100% incorrect, unless the ARU are telling me lies to piss me off. I'm not saying things might not have changed but they were the facts and they were relevant to the conversation at the time and not once did I mention last years JGC selections, i know what the process was and it was as fair as it could be. I'm not sure anyone has mentioned that clubs have been disadvantaged but I could be wrong. The whole point of the selection discussion has been about transparency and unfortunately it is far from transparent. One thing that is transparent is when a selectors talks to families, greets boys on a first name basis, makes an effort to shake dads hand etc etc, but doesn't give the next boy the time of day, it creates a poor perception of the whole process, as fair as it was some boys look favoured over others, you only have to listen to the parents talk to work that out. I understand people have friendship but everything is about perception and those friendship shouldn't be shown at selection days.
I would ask you why did a select group of boys get personalise invitations to the JGC trials, why have very few club actually seen the flyer, why do certain 16 year olds not have to pay the trial fee, why are a smaller group of 16 year old taken to special training just for them.
As for the high performance guys watching games at the JGC if what I witnessed at the numerous games I watched it wasn't all that flash.
And yes the ARU are trying very hard and I am fully supportive of the program and I also email and talk to the organisers about some of the concerns I raise on this forum and some I don't raise here.

Hi S' UP . It's a very small rugby world out there and as the years pass and boys get picked in various rep teams you get to know most of the coaches selectors and parents spending hours chatting and reliving past campaigns.
Every year you loose some parents and gain some as the boys develop at different ages. That ability to network is what holds rugby together and allows the journeyman to travel the world with his footy boots.
The boys make friendships from all over Sydney . I can appreciate, to someone new that the chat could seem bias but I'll back up Brainstrust here, that selectors and coaches do want the best boys in their squad. Sometimes politics does intervene but generally it's only in the last 8 in a squad of 23 where an argument could be made for any 3 boys in each of those positions.
JGC last year I thought ran pretty well for a first up. What I noticed was a large gap in the top players to the bottom players in skill and fitness and toughness. Development??? Let's hope that the boys learnt what they need to do to get to the next level. I know they enjoyed playing with the superstars and getting to know them. Have a look at facebook and check the photos. I watched a game where a cup team ran out a seconds squad with the expectation of an easy win. With 15 to go and holding on to a narrow lead the coaches brought in a boy off the bench and in the space of 8 mins 3 trys were scored bonus points were earnt and he came off. Winning is important to the team mentality? ??
Getting the balance right between development and winning is the key to a happy squad and maybe needs to be stipulated in the original sign on paperwork. Parents have to realise that that it's not club level (where everyone gets equal time)
Another issue with the JGC is getting the top players to participate over summer having already played too much rugby ( club school JSC zone state etc) so going forward I hope we loose some layers and let the JGC become the pathway so that it's all over by October not just starting.

 

[Hugie]

Adding complexity to this. My observation (over a number of years) is that the role for a player changes dramatically from club level through district to state level. At a club level a lot of missed tackles have to be covered up, a lot of hit ups can be done to gain good ground, the ball is dropped by the backs a lot (forwards can make comment here) etc. At the higher levels a lot less tackles are missed and the hit up can hurt a lot (including going backwards), the ball moves out the back line more reliably and faster.

My biggest complaint about the club pathway is that the rep players don't get nearly enough games at the higher levels. I have no doubt that they can adapt but they just don't get enough games, unlike the schools system where all their games and coaching is graded.

The JGC is a very good first step to address this problem. But the club systems have to come on board and co-operate with the JGC.

Perhaps all club comps could finish on Shute Shield grand final day and the JGC could parallel the NRC, selecting the players from the club competition, so the selectors can see the boys play full games week in week out. Drop the gala weekends they're a waste of time.