And to Wales
- Thread starter RugbyReg
- Start date
- Status
naza
Alan Cameron (40)
Wales leading 13-10 at halftime.
They've had most of the possession and running of the football, with the Wallabies determined to kick the leather off the ball. Our defence is awful. Tight forwards defending out in the backs and constantly being found out. Everyone is slipping off tackles and the Welsh are offloading with ease.
With Mortlock injured in the 3rd minute, Quade Cooper has been composed and classy but with no Mortlock and no Palu, our go forward isn't the best.
They've had most of the possession and running of the football, with the Wallabies determined to kick the leather off the ball. Our defence is awful. Tight forwards defending out in the backs and constantly being found out. Everyone is slipping off tackles and the Welsh are offloading with ease.
With Mortlock injured in the 3rd minute, Quade Cooper has been composed and classy but with no Mortlock and no Palu, our go forward isn't the best.
Grandmaster Flash
Johnnie Wallace (23)
He was dire but what was worse was the lack of intensity from the forwards mid-way through the second half when the game was there for the taking.
Also, the one time Mitchell ran back the ball with pace and intent he sliced through the defence. Can we stop with the up-and-unders?
Also, the one time Mitchell ran back the ball with pace and intent he sliced through the defence. Can we stop with the up-and-unders?
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Well...Alan Lewis. What a woeful ref. Vendetta quite obviously out for Stephen Moore. I don't think I've ever seen a so-called "professional" ref pathetically target a player before. Some other decisions were just so frustrating - the last penalty and being marched 10 were clearly wrong. The last ruck he blew up in the game the Welsh player on the deck clearly grabbed the ball and held it in. Or when we were 10 out from the Welsh line, forwards are hitting the ball and on the other side of the ruck the Welsh tighthead is standing 2m offside making tackles. I'll be happy if I never have to see him ref again. Anyway.
Wales were the better team in the end (despite Lewis gifting them the win). When Mortlock went off you could just feel it.
We still kick to much. I nearly threw something at the TV when Giteau kicks with front foot ball and we're in their half. I just don't get it. Wales, meanwhile, in the first half played a game with the ball in hand and were white hot. The Wallabies happily helped out by giving the ball back to people who were happy to run it back at them all day - and rip them to shreds whilst doing it.
Why do we not counter attack? Deans teams are renowned for it. Yet the Wallabies kick everything back, no matter the situation.
Biggest positive was the lineout, and Lewis missed Freier's woeful throw, but he also missed a blatant Welsh one. Once Wales lost confidence we dominated the lineout until Wales just went to 2 time and time again.
Cooper wasn't too bad. Two charged down kicks were average, though. He kicks way too flat.
Burgess much improved. Less headless chicken, but some of his passing was still wayward. Give him a year to work on it and he should be a lot better. Someone needs to tell him he's not a kicker as well - Sheehan had the same symptons in the first half of the S14. Ignoring a fullback calling for a pass to kick a poor skewed kick to touch, or too many box kicks on the half way line. Experience will get him there eventually.
Scrum? Lewis has no clue at scrum time. Once the Welsh got the upper hand they drew back or collapsed when they felt like it. Smart play, but the ref was out of his depth there.
Gits can't run a backline from 10 without a confident or dominant 12.
Frustrated. Need sleep.
<edit> Fixed the silly ref's name.
Wales were the better team in the end (despite Lewis gifting them the win). When Mortlock went off you could just feel it.
We still kick to much. I nearly threw something at the TV when Giteau kicks with front foot ball and we're in their half. I just don't get it. Wales, meanwhile, in the first half played a game with the ball in hand and were white hot. The Wallabies happily helped out by giving the ball back to people who were happy to run it back at them all day - and rip them to shreds whilst doing it.
Why do we not counter attack? Deans teams are renowned for it. Yet the Wallabies kick everything back, no matter the situation.
Biggest positive was the lineout, and Lewis missed Freier's woeful throw, but he also missed a blatant Welsh one. Once Wales lost confidence we dominated the lineout until Wales just went to 2 time and time again.
Cooper wasn't too bad. Two charged down kicks were average, though. He kicks way too flat.
Burgess much improved. Less headless chicken, but some of his passing was still wayward. Give him a year to work on it and he should be a lot better. Someone needs to tell him he's not a kicker as well - Sheehan had the same symptons in the first half of the S14. Ignoring a fullback calling for a pass to kick a poor skewed kick to touch, or too many box kicks on the half way line. Experience will get him there eventually.
Scrum? Lewis has no clue at scrum time. Once the Welsh got the upper hand they drew back or collapsed when they felt like it. Smart play, but the ref was out of his depth there.
Gits can't run a backline from 10 without a confident or dominant 12.
Frustrated. Need sleep.
<edit> Fixed the silly ref's name.
S
Spook
Guest
Wales had nothing in the second half (except the ref). They were out on their feet. Morty would have been bloody handy in the second half.
I think Oz is developing some good depth given we had our 4th and 5th choice centres out there. Tonight, we missed Rocky's ball carrying I thought and Mumm came on too late in the game. I thought Robinson had a pretty poor game by his standards and 3M was well off the pace.
Some of the missed tackles in the first half were shocking.
Lote proved to me that he is a first XV player. He makes a definite impact on a match and his work in defense was intelligent. Did Hynes get a head knock?
Cooper was pretty good despite some charge downs. He is not ready to play 10 for Oz but I think we may have scored a few more tries had Gits been at 12.
I think Oz is developing some good depth given we had our 4th and 5th choice centres out there. Tonight, we missed Rocky's ball carrying I thought and Mumm came on too late in the game. I thought Robinson had a pretty poor game by his standards and 3M was well off the pace.
Some of the missed tackles in the first half were shocking.
Lote proved to me that he is a first XV player. He makes a definite impact on a match and his work in defense was intelligent. Did Hynes get a head knock?
Cooper was pretty good despite some charge downs. He is not ready to play 10 for Oz but I think we may have scored a few more tries had Gits been at 12.
R
rugbywhisperer
Guest
Guys, we simply got outplayed by a team more prepared to play rugby than we were.
Yes the ref canned us and in some instances he was downright disgusting.
Following Alan Lewis's attrocious performance in Hong Kong, I decided to do a referee assessment last night and if he were being assessed at local level he would not have received a good score.
His positional play was terrible, he missed (or ignored) many forward passes, particularly by the Welsh, their first try should have been brought back for a penalty to Australia and finally the last penalty should have gone to Australia for the Welsh player coming into the T/R/M from the side before the Aussie player left his feet.
Simple assessment guidelines,
Did the right team win - maybe
Were any points scored that shouldn't have been scored - Yes
Were any points not scored that should have been - No
Did the disputed points influence the result of the game - definitely yes.
He is also committing a cardinal sin WRT refereeing - he is refereeing the players and not the game, hence his preoccupation with Stephen Moore. At the scrum he has no clue whatsoever and is guessing most of his decisions on preconceived suspicion. This man should NOT be refereeing international matches.
In the end though, Australia again kicked away far too much posession, our breakdown was terrible and our scrum on their feed was useless.
I cannot see the need for good running backs if we are going to consistently and persistently kick away good posession.
I need to sleep to get over this, Australia last night didn't deserve to win because we didn't try. Our second half attitude sucked and we gave posession to a team prepared to run at and through us which they did.
Why don't we run more often, I just can't figure it at all. Kicking away posession so often and badly is NOT a Robbie Deans trait.
Yes the ref canned us and in some instances he was downright disgusting.
Following Alan Lewis's attrocious performance in Hong Kong, I decided to do a referee assessment last night and if he were being assessed at local level he would not have received a good score.
His positional play was terrible, he missed (or ignored) many forward passes, particularly by the Welsh, their first try should have been brought back for a penalty to Australia and finally the last penalty should have gone to Australia for the Welsh player coming into the T/R/M from the side before the Aussie player left his feet.
Simple assessment guidelines,
Did the right team win - maybe
Were any points scored that shouldn't have been scored - Yes
Were any points not scored that should have been - No
Did the disputed points influence the result of the game - definitely yes.
He is also committing a cardinal sin WRT refereeing - he is refereeing the players and not the game, hence his preoccupation with Stephen Moore. At the scrum he has no clue whatsoever and is guessing most of his decisions on preconceived suspicion. This man should NOT be refereeing international matches.
In the end though, Australia again kicked away far too much posession, our breakdown was terrible and our scrum on their feed was useless.
I cannot see the need for good running backs if we are going to consistently and persistently kick away good posession.
I need to sleep to get over this, Australia last night didn't deserve to win because we didn't try. Our second half attitude sucked and we gave posession to a team prepared to run at and through us which they did.
Why don't we run more often, I just can't figure it at all. Kicking away posession so often and badly is NOT a Robbie Deans trait.
M
Mainlander
Guest
But was the tour a success.
Last NH tour you only beat Italy and were useless away from Oz.
So before the tour started what was the criteria for a success.
Italy and one other ?
Italy and England ?
Italy, England and France ?
Italy, England and Wales ?
All 4 ?
Personally I reckon knocking over both England and France makes it a success, Wales would have been nice, icing on the cake, but if you have to lose one that's the one to lose.
Last NH tour you only beat Italy and were useless away from Oz.
So before the tour started what was the criteria for a success.
Italy and one other ?
Italy and England ?
Italy, England and France ?
Italy, England and Wales ?
All 4 ?
Personally I reckon knocking over both England and France makes it a success, Wales would have been nice, icing on the cake, but if you have to lose one that's the one to lose.
S
Spook
Guest
I think on balance Wales deserved to edge it but it's bloody hard to take the terrible officiating. Oz have also lost games they deserved to win.
spectator
Bob Davidson (42)
I'd have to say it has been a successful tour, but nonetheless disappointing to have a gimp for a referee, who made some really bad calls at crucial times.Mainlander said:
For me it was the most enjoyable game of the tour to watch as it featured more expansive play than the others. The try by the Welsh 15 was a corker.
My observations:
I thought Brown, Sharpe and Moore were the pick of the forwards.
Lineout was excellent, again.
Tuqiri was good when he came on and Ioane offered plenty in attack.
Cooper continues to grow and will be a more than viable starting 10 option in the future.
I really have doubts about Waugh's future.
Much better game from Burgess.
S
Spook
Guest
I don't think Waugh was bad. He gave away a couple of penalties but he made at least one bloody good steal. I don't think 3M or Brown were very effective today which didn't help his cause.
naza
Alan Cameron (40)
Where is everyone ? Sulking at the loss ?
Brown was a letdown. I can forgive him not being the beast Palu is but his work in defence and at the breakdown was sloppy and not accurate enough.
I still go back to the lack of Palu and Mortlock really hurting us. We lack tackle breakers and offloaders. We need guys like that seeing as we're not running set moves or showing any aptitude in counter attack.
For all the talk of progress, we revert to 2002 era Brumbies recycling when in trouble.
Even the Northern Hemisphere sad sacks must be bored with the amount of ball we kick away.
Cooper was suprisingly good. Composed, creative.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is exponentially better than Cross at centre.
Burgess is magnificent. I feel awful for even second guessing him.
Mostly I was shocked at our poor defence. Seeing small Welsh backs offloading at will was embarassing.
Our lineout was simply glorious. Like clockwork. It looked so smooth and easy.
Brown was a letdown. I can forgive him not being the beast Palu is but his work in defence and at the breakdown was sloppy and not accurate enough.
I still go back to the lack of Palu and Mortlock really hurting us. We lack tackle breakers and offloaders. We need guys like that seeing as we're not running set moves or showing any aptitude in counter attack.
For all the talk of progress, we revert to 2002 era Brumbies recycling when in trouble.
Even the Northern Hemisphere sad sacks must be bored with the amount of ball we kick away.
Cooper was suprisingly good. Composed, creative.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is exponentially better than Cross at centre.
Burgess is magnificent. I feel awful for even second guessing him.
Mostly I was shocked at our poor defence. Seeing small Welsh backs offloading at will was embarassing.
Our lineout was simply glorious. Like clockwork. It looked so smooth and easy.
It was the simple things that cost us. I have never seen us miss so many first-up tackles (I am looking at you, Nathan Sharpe), and we dropped a lot of easy ball. That said, we were out-enthused and beaten by the better side- Wales played some great footy at times.
Worst on ground was 3M. Second worst was Sharpe. Both lacked any mongrel at all, and 3M runs so high I am amazed he manages to keep the ball. All the forwards were patchy, with the lineout the only real strong point.
In the backs I thought Burgess played very well, as did Tuqiri and Ioane. Burgess' decision making still lets him down at times (clearly that pick-and-drive raid in the final minutes wasn't working, yet he persisted with it until we were penalised) and Tuqiri's defence was superb.
A poor, tired performance against a good Welsh side. Shit happens, aye.
Worst on ground was 3M. Second worst was Sharpe. Both lacked any mongrel at all, and 3M runs so high I am amazed he manages to keep the ball. All the forwards were patchy, with the lineout the only real strong point.
In the backs I thought Burgess played very well, as did Tuqiri and Ioane. Burgess' decision making still lets him down at times (clearly that pick-and-drive raid in the final minutes wasn't working, yet he persisted with it until we were penalised) and Tuqiri's defence was superb.
A poor, tired performance against a good Welsh side. Shit happens, aye.
naza
Alan Cameron (40)
barbarian said:
Yeah, that sums it up well. I'm still pissed at our guys but the Welsh did play with a lot of enthusiam, flair and skill. Their support play was very good and they gave us a lesson in running rugby.
barbarian said:
That's harsh. Giteau didn't want the ball. The Welsh defence was fanned out. We just didn't execute. Silly of us to only start holding onto the ball in attack in the last 10 minutes though.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Have to give a high five to the Druids. They showed a lot of heart against the Bokke ( after we led 20-3 we show have killed them) and a spitited one against the All Blacks. Dont think there is such a wide gap between the NH & SH, its in the heart and belief more then anything.
Anyway not that bad a tour , bring on the BaaBaas, they'll give you some thoughts on the tour. :fishing
Regarding the ref, we had it 2 games before we got it right. Look like the NH refs hate England for some reason but once the crowd get behind the Wales lot , it feel like the ref do the same thing. :nta:
Anyway not that bad a tour , bring on the BaaBaas, they'll give you some thoughts on the tour. :fishing
Regarding the ref, we had it 2 games before we got it right. Look like the NH refs hate England for some reason but once the crowd get behind the Wales lot , it feel like the ref do the same thing. :nta:
Just watched it - been at father and son camp all weekend watching my 7 year old go crazy in the bush, fun stuff!
I have to start by saying I thought Lewis was better. What he fell down in (badly) was consistency. The yellow for Moore, then not for a similar situation with us on attack. That final decision after Digby took the high ball - just wrong, Welsh player offside / in the side. He was often very poorly positioned and got in the way too.
Scrum - patchy, but I think Wales were cannier than us and worked Lewis well here and got a few cheap FK / penalties.
Lineout very good. Sharpe pretty good again (keep kicking him up the arse, it seems to work). Moore good again. Waugh did nothing to say he should start over Smith, but was reasonable. MMM OK I thought.
Burgess much better.
Cross - gee he looks pedestrian, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) much more dangerous at 13 and must be the backup when Mortlock's brain finally shrivels to the size of a raisin from all the concussions.
Tuqiri looked hungry and keen to get involved. Some good defensive hits too. Looks like he knows he has to compete to get a position. Good.
I am certainly coming around to the idea of Cooper at 10 / Giteau 12 especially with Barnes out.
Ioane is taking his chances, still some mistakes, but easily looks the most dangerous runner. I would persist.
Were we robbed? No - Wales deserved the win, and although we could have won it, it would have been pretty lucky.
Is Lewis out of his depth? Yup. But I don't think he "cost" us the game; as many have stated, the mindless kicking is just excruciating to watch, and the sooner we stop it, the better.
I have to start by saying I thought Lewis was better. What he fell down in (badly) was consistency. The yellow for Moore, then not for a similar situation with us on attack. That final decision after Digby took the high ball - just wrong, Welsh player offside / in the side. He was often very poorly positioned and got in the way too.
Scrum - patchy, but I think Wales were cannier than us and worked Lewis well here and got a few cheap FK / penalties.
Lineout very good. Sharpe pretty good again (keep kicking him up the arse, it seems to work). Moore good again. Waugh did nothing to say he should start over Smith, but was reasonable. MMM OK I thought.
Burgess much better.
Cross - gee he looks pedestrian, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) much more dangerous at 13 and must be the backup when Mortlock's brain finally shrivels to the size of a raisin from all the concussions.
Tuqiri looked hungry and keen to get involved. Some good defensive hits too. Looks like he knows he has to compete to get a position. Good.
I am certainly coming around to the idea of Cooper at 10 / Giteau 12 especially with Barnes out.
Ioane is taking his chances, still some mistakes, but easily looks the most dangerous runner. I would persist.
Were we robbed? No - Wales deserved the win, and although we could have won it, it would have been pretty lucky.
Is Lewis out of his depth? Yup. But I don't think he "cost" us the game; as many have stated, the mindless kicking is just excruciating to watch, and the sooner we stop it, the better.
R
rugbywhisperer
Guest
OK, who's fault was it we lost?
It was our fault - no one else's.
When our mother said don't touch the hotplate - she meant don't touch the hotplate - it will burn.
It's one thing being shafted, it's a totally different thing knowing you are going to be shafted and let it happen anyway.
Ever since the Bledisloe in HK we have been on notice, FIX THE FRONT ROW and DON'T LEAVE YOUR FEET AT THE T/R/M.
Every ref in the past three games has given us warning but we didn't heed it and we kept touching the bloody damned hotplate.
We didn't fix the front row and we left our feet - it was obvious to a blind goat on valium that the referees were on a mission and we didn't heed the warnings.
Add the fact that we only decided to retain posession and play rugby in the last 10 minutes and boys the blame is all ours.
Wear it on our shoulders, learn from it and don't repeat the errors again.
It was our fault - no one else's.
When our mother said don't touch the hotplate - she meant don't touch the hotplate - it will burn.
It's one thing being shafted, it's a totally different thing knowing you are going to be shafted and let it happen anyway.
Ever since the Bledisloe in HK we have been on notice, FIX THE FRONT ROW and DON'T LEAVE YOUR FEET AT THE T/R/M.
Every ref in the past three games has given us warning but we didn't heed it and we kept touching the bloody damned hotplate.
We didn't fix the front row and we left our feet - it was obvious to a blind goat on valium that the referees were on a mission and we didn't heed the warnings.
Add the fact that we only decided to retain posession and play rugby in the last 10 minutes and boys the blame is all ours.
Wear it on our shoulders, learn from it and don't repeat the errors again.
Aussie D
Desmond Connor (43)
That was a fantastic performance from the Welsh with the off-loading in the tackle and constant backing up. Hopefully Dingo took notes and tells the S14 coaches to work on it pre-season so all our players can do it come the June internationals next year. I must be the only Australian who didn'tthink Lewis had a woeful performance (he was better than in HK) and that, as RW alluded, we were our own worst enemies. Stephen Moore deserved his yellow for stupidity, much less the cynical penalty he gave away - though Rhys Jones should have been yellow for a cynical penalty down the other end of the field. Burgess decision making was a little better but his passing was woeful at times. Ryan Cross, as I've stated after every test is out of his depth at this level - I lost count of the number of times he missed tackles, he runs like a league back too - away from his support as he chases individual glory. Phil Waugh ticked me off - not just for the penalties he gave away but for all the ball that he dropped. At one stage he was going to go for a quick tap and dropped the ball before he could. As others have stated Dingo needs to continue his course on Rugby For Beginners with the Wallabies with regards to body height, basic catching and passing, support play (depth being a good thing) tackling.
naza
Alan Cameron (40)
Aussie D said:
Gee, it must just be force of habit how brutal people are on Wallaby halfbacks. If his passing was bad, why'd you give him 3 points in WPOTY ?
Aussie D said:
Couldn't agree more & I've been saying it all year. Seems like the praise for Cross has died down a bit.
- Status