All Blacks vs Springbokke @ Wellington

[Muttonbird]

Standby for an epic wobbly from me if the NZ prime minister goes anywhere near the ABs' dressing room on Saturday night.

 

[FrankLind]

Same story, SA to be competitive for 60, AB to run away with it at the end to blow it out a bit.

Why? Fitness/concentration/bench impact?

 

[Ulrich]

Why? Fitness/concentration/bench impact?

Going out on a limb here suggesting fitness, as usual.

Meyer has targeted fitness as a key area but along with fitness comes rest since being fit means ready to play to your full potential. Jannie is certainly overplayed and the buy-in from unions is questionable at best.

The All Blacks know this is where they have the upper hand. If I were just a spokesperson I'd emphasise once again to the All Blacks to remain calm and just keep on playing when the opposition seems to slow down.

 

[Baldric]

Standby for an epic wobbly from me if the NZ prime minister goes anywhere near the ABs' dressing room on Saturday night.

Looking forward to this. I hope the PM goes to the rooms and the AB's lose. I reckon you might just implode

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

The whole All Blacks blow out in the last 20 minutes thing hasn't happened for a while - it used to be the case, but if you look at results this year, we've maybe scored the odd try but there has certainly not been any blowouts - that tells me that the oppositions have caught up in fitness & change bench tactics (as they bloody well should have - this is top level rugby).

I have no fear over losing to the Boks. Actually that's not what I mean - I am less worried about losing to the Boks than I am Australia. I expect both things to happen, but I really get my nose rubbed in it when the Aussies beat us, much less so than the Boks (except from the Aussies, again).

Maybe I need new friends?

 

[Blue]

Why? Fitness/concentration/bench impact?

The last ten tests between us?

You guys have that extra gear which no other country has.

If I had to choose one thing you have over the rest of the teams, that's it. Kick it up a gear when you have to.

We're too fucking stupid. Just keep doing the same shit for 80 minutes.

 

[Baldric]

We're too fucking stupid. Just keep doing the same shit for 80 minutes.

That is the nub of it. Plan A does not work so we try Plan B. The problem is Plan B is the same as Plan A except it has the A rubbed out and B written in crayon.
I really would like to see us play a test where we try and keep the ball in hand and play some rugby. I dont care if we get thumped at least it would have been worth watching. The biggest frustration of being a Bok supporter is watching some really talented players playing a dros style of rugby. (Well there is one bigger frustration - try being a a SA cricket supporter)

 

[Ulrich]

That is the nub of it. Plan A does not work so we try Plan B. The problem is Plan B is the same as Plan A except it has the A rubbed out and B written in crayon.
I really would like to see us play a test where we try and keep the ball in hand and play some rugby. I dont care if we get thumped at least it would have been worth watching. The biggest frustration of being a Bok supporter is watching some really talented players playing a dros style of rugby. (Well there is one bigger frustration - try being a a SA cricket supporter)

Maybe it's just me here.

Heyneke used to be a Bulls coach. Anyone who knows anything would know WP/Blue Bulls are as far apart as our playing resources allow and not as far as we'd like them to be. I'm a WP/Stormers fan though.

For the life of me I cannot fathom how I am the only person remembering some great attacking enterprise being displayed by Heyneke's Bokke last year.

We've had some rocky roads this year yes, I agree. Indecent scrum against the world XV, improvement in Wales test #1, complete failure as a team in Wales test #2 (not due to game plan, but due to how we actually performed), and improvement against an admittedly weak and weary Scottish side.

Then comes Argentina, our scrum fails on both occasions and on both occasions we lament how badly we kick or our lack of kicking.

On comes the game against Australia after weather forecasts suggested potential nasties and you and I can't say how much of a factor it actually was on the pitch.

We could not beat the All Blacks last year at Ellis park because we ran at them, we all knew if we had kept to our "Bok play" we might not have won the championship but we could very well have won the game but we accepted the loss based on the coach's and the team's premise to go for all or nothing. In hindsight a victory would probably still have been a better bet.

Now after we tried some kicking against Australia considering the weather the team and coaching staff are being lambasted again. Let me remind you of dy over dx. It's differentiation and integration. I certainly don't remember much of it but with some practice it will come back. Similarly nobody just started writing, we were all taught to write A's and B's etc repetitively on a piece of paper until it became natural.

Given the conditions we will be playing in next year a kicking game is vital and if we don't work on it now we'll all lambast Heyneke next year for being an idiot. He is working on it now and so is the team, we know they can score tries, it has been proven last year, and still they are being lambasted.

Are we short-sighted? Do we have short memories? Do we have selective memories?

May I remind you that the former Bulls coach still has one of the best SA records. 4 Losses to the All Blacks and 2 to the Wallabies and then 2 draws.

I'd love to see the Springboks beat the All Blacks at least once this year as much as anyone else, but please, think a bit guys.

We really don't have a #9 as much as we'd like to think Reinach is the answer currently. Cockott may very well get a big head as he had when he left in any case. Why we're stuck with Matfield? I don't know. Really he's not that phenomenal anymore but do you sit with the team and sip water or energy drinks to gain an understanding over why he is actually there?

I fail to believe that someone CLEARLY as passionate as Heyneke (demonstrated in several video clips as well in his words that the Boks should always win and never compromise) would deliberately jeopardise his country and in the same vein take a hit to his winning record if he did not believe this team has what it takes.

He's coached Super Rugby, he's coached a little bit in Europe, he's been fired before so he's pretty much been there and done that. He is also rated by Nick Mallet whom everyone seems to think is a god. Mallet would fume at refereeing decisions as per the weekend past and he'd have no shame in telling it like it is. A great virtue some may think that is but it's not necessary.

As much as degrading your superiors and the company you work for is not necessary and not in good spirit when resigning. It's from being little whiny buggers whenever something doesn't go our way that less things seem to go our way.

At least we have astute heads in charge realising this and their actions are clearly also directed at the refereeing fraternity to say "We're not thugs (((please get that out of your minds))), when we do commit foul play we accept it and it's a mistake, when not and we get punished for it, we're steadfast enough to show our intentions and true colours by accepting it and moving on."

If your car gets stolen you get upset with the thief momentarily but ultimately you focus on solutions. A solution so you may claim from insurance or get the tracking service and authorities to do their duties. That's problem solving and therefore progress. Hunting down the thief on your own is only likely to end bad no matter which way you look at it.

This is a long post but I'm really confused about what the public wants. We beat the Wallabies last year 38-12 on a ground we've not won at in 42 years and also beat the French in France for the first time in 16 years while breaking the RC record in defeating ARG by a big margin and suddenly when things are obviously (hallo, the other teams have coaches too who also do their research) not all going to plan that well this year coupled with some tired players while we develop the two things that lacked last year against NZ, namely kicking and defense, suddenly it is a carnal sin.

Show some faith!

Regardless of how the game is played this coming weekend, if the Boks win it will be "Fait accompli". Why? Yes, because it would be the All Blacks! Why don't we just take a win for a win for a win while we accept lessons are to be learnt along the way?

 

[Baldric]

Ulrich, the frustration is that we know what we are capable of, but have not seen it this year. The standout for me this year is a wobbly scrum and aimless kicking.
Our try scoring has mostly come from individual brilliance and not from game plan.

 

[Ulrich]

Ulrich, the frustration is that we know what we are capable of, but have not seen it this year. The standout for me this year is a wobbly scrum and aimless kicking.
Our try scoring has mostly come from individual brilliance and not from game plan.

I understand that, I really do.

From a coach's perspective though, last year you were told your team did not kick well enough or actually, enough, and that the All Blacks not only kicked better but they also kicked more (than anyone else in the world)! This year you try rectifying that and as a result the team are also concentrating more on this area for the time being and this is also wrong now.

We have not played to our potential, no. One thing I can say however is that if it hadn't been for the amount of wet/rainy games we may still have been stuck running only from turnovers by now. Argentina gave us a really good wake-up call and I feel sorry for the poor souls in their group next year.

Also remember they've been on about a month long if not longer dedicated camp somewhere in North America. This is the kind of time usually reserved only for... pretty much nobody else?

 

[Blue]

Ulrich:

The problem goes much deeper than how the Boks have tried to play for a few tests.

Until I see a genuine willingness and consistent change in the way we play I will be the glass half full guy as far as the Boks and Super Rugby is concerned.

Look at your Super Rugby team and their total ineptness in attack for the last three seasons. It's a really fundamental issue in our rugby. The Stormers attack is like a train wreck in slow motion for three years now. Why? Don't tell me it's injuries. It's complete coaching incompetence and the doggedness to not admit that you are wrong and do something about it. Same thing at the Bulls.

Blaming the weather is just an easy way to brush the problem under the carpet.

30 minutes camped in the Wobs half. The ball was in hand. What we did with it was completely predictable for every one of those minutes. We just bashed and bashed and bashed. No deception, no variation of the attacking point, no deception, no surprise and not even a little bit of caution to the wind. Bash, bash bash, kick if you are in your own half or when you run out of ideas, which happens often.

It's because the players are told that this is the way you will do it, it's coached that way and that's it. There is Plan A, plan A and if that fails Plan A. Then we wonder why the ABs have this extra gear they can hit late in games. It is because they speed it up, change their running lines, and throw more bodies into the collisions to free the ball up quicker. The opposition forwards are tired and suddenly they create space. We really haven't got a fucking clue. It's almost embarrassing to watch our single minded stupidity. It's like I keep telling my kid. I love seeing you make mistakes but when you make the same one over and over again, it's really not very clever.

It works beautifully when you boss the opposition pack like we did on the Spring Tour. Then you look a million dollars and you create space. You go home heroes and everyone says you're p[laying such beautiful running rugby. Until you hit a good defense. Forget it. You look clueless.

It stinks. It's archaic. It will never again win a World Cup or a RC. You just don't score enough points.

We are fucked unless there is a real change. Bravado and chest beating will win us the odd game against the ABs and Wobs. Whoopdee doo.

 

[Blue]

I understand that, I really do.

From a coach's perspective though, last year you were told your team did not kick well enough or actually, enough, and that the All Blacks not only kicked better but they also kicked more (than anyone else in the world)! This year you try rectifying that and as a result the team are also concentrating more on this area for the time being and this is also wrong now.

Where have you been?

This is the same old excuse rolled out since 2007.

We trust the game plan but we did not execrate it very well.

At what point do you admit that the plan is fucked?

 

[Lorenzo]

That is the nub of it. Plan A does not work so we try Plan B. The problem is Plan B is the same as Plan A except it has the A rubbed out and B written in crayon.
I really would like to see us play a test where we try and keep the ball in hand and play some rugby. I dont care if we get thumped at least it would have been worth watching. The biggest frustration of being a Bok supporter is watching some really talented players playing a dros style of rugby. (Well there is one bigger frustration - try being a a SA cricket supporter)

"Ball in hand" at test level is fool's good. Neither the laws nor the officiating reward valuing possession over position. There's too much unpredictable variance in the outcomes of ruck/tackles/scrums, and points are too valuable. If you think giving away turnovers and ruck penalties in your own half is "worth watching", I suggest you watch more wallaby tests as they are specialists at it.

The All Blacks don't play "ball in hand" rugby or "running rugby", they play smart rugby that starts with playing the game in the opposition's half.

That said, I agree that watching the springboks play up-and-under ball is pretty gash.

 

[Blue]

"Ball in hand" at test level is fool's good. Neither the laws nor the officiating reward valuing possession over position. There's too much unpredictable variance in the outcomes of ruck/tackles/scrums, and points are too valuable. If you think giving away turnovers and ruck penalties in your own half is "worth watching", I suggest you watch more wallaby tests as they are specialists at it.

The All Blacks don't play "ball in hand" rugby or "running rugby", they play smart rugby that starts with playing the game in the opposition's half.

That said, I agree that watching the springboks play up-and-under ball is pretty gash.

It's about what you do with the thing when the opportunity presents itself, or to create that opportunity.

Nobody is suggesting willy nilly running at all cost.

 

[Ulrich]

Look at your Super Rugby team and their total ineptness in attack for the last three seasons. It's a really fundamental issue in our rugby. The Stormers attack is like a train wreck in slow motion for three years now. Why? Don't tell me it's injuries. It's complete coaching incompetence and the doggedness to not admit that you are wrong and do something about it. Same thing at the Bulls.

Blaming the weather is just an easy way to brush the problem under the carpet.

30 minutes camped in the Wobs half. The ball was in hand. What we did with it was completely predictable for every one of those minutes. We just bashed and bashed and bashed. No deception, no variation of the attacking point, no deception, no surprise and not even a little bit of caution to the wind. Bash, bash bash, kick if you are in your own half or when you run out of ideas, which happens often.

It's because the players are told that this is the way you will do it, it's coached that way and that's it. There is Plan A, plan A and if that fails Plan A. Then we wonder why the ABs have this extra gear they can hit late in games. It is because they speed it up, change their running lines, and throw more bodies into the collisions to free the ball up quicker. The opposition forwards are tired and suddenly they create space. We really haven't got a fucking clue. It's almost embarrassing to watch our single minded stupidity. It's like I keep telling my kid. I love seeing you make mistakes but when you make the same one over and over again, it's really not very clever.

It works beautifully when you boss the opposition pack like we did on the Spring Tour. Then you look a million dollars and you create space. You go home heroes and everyone says you're p[laying such beautiful running rugby. Until you hit a good defense. Forget it. You look clueless.

It stinks. It's archaic. It will never again win a World Cup or a RC. You just don't score enough points.

All good, and valid points to some degrees Blue. I am not arguing I'm making a statement.

The Cheetahs play an attacking brand and for one season they had their defensive side sorted, now that's gone too in this season. The Lions' defense in Super Rugby has never really been that great. On the other hand the only thing the Stormers could do for many seasons was defend. I don't blame it on injuries at all. In fact I blame the way they play for the injuries. The Sharks... decent up front and at the back but usually one or the other on the pitch. So too the Bulls, just more kicking though.

How on earth must a national coach change this suddenly and just make it work? Is it Heyneke and his team's duty to teach Jannie du Plessis some offloading skills now too apart from the scrummaging and conditioning he is receiving and the lineout calls, scrumm sets and other set piece moves (events) he should know?

How many tries did the Bulls score when they actually won the Super Rugby comp? Quite a few.

No. It's not the national coach's fault. Never was PDV's fault and never was Jake's fault. At least our coach with his so-called backdated thinking methods has urged our teams to better their breakdown skills, make better decisions and attack more as well as urged for better conditioning. Some of which I'm sure would have involved some session samples or some sort of logic at least behind his reasoning to them. Do they listen???

Why? Because you and I can't agree on anything. That's the fundamental SA problem. It's the greatest problem and the reason why "Eendrag Maak Mag" (Unity is Strength) is a motto we know well. Stolen from the Belgians I believe. We have to reiterate it to ourselves enough just to stand a chance because our nature is not to agree with one another.

SA players can play extravagant rugby yes. We don't lack the skill to be honest, it's the way franchises play that diminishes the opportunity to use those skills and therefore they become rusty.

Not to mention when players from numerous franchises get together speaking different languages and accustomed to different cultures it's an even bigger balancing act required I would imagine than from most other countries.

We could get there to that great point of awesomeness if politics were not involved, both as financial decision makers within our games from unions who decide how much they'd like to play who into the ground as well as how they'd like to play all the way to the latest race debacle.

We should count our blessings to be honest. We're actually not doing that bad considering...

 

[PiXeL_Ninja]

One thing I'll say is, I rate our coach as the most genuinely humble coach out there, last year after the Brisbane test, he had this to say:

"I truly believe this Wallabies side is a good side. I know how [Australia head coach] Ewen [McKenzie] feels. You're almost on a hiding to nothing. It's only your first and second game - it takes time. They'll be back."

His passion in the coaching box is also quite evident, real old school, I like that. Hanson however, is a bit of a cock. Maybe you need a certain amount of that to be successful?(Chieka?)

 

[PiXeL_Ninja]

It stinks. It's archaic. It will never again win a World Cup or a RC. You just don't score enough points.

We are fucked unless there is a real change. Bravado and chest beating will win us the odd game against the ABs and Wobs. Whoopdee doo.

Not so sure about that to be honest, take a look at the scorelines for the last couple world cups..

That said, SA did score more tries than anyone else in the 2013 season. We arent as shit as everyone is making us out to be. We definitely do have problems in key areas but I think it can be resolved.

Question, does Vic pack down behind Jannie? Our scrum last year was pretty dominant(under the same rules as we have now) the change from then and now is that Flip was at 5 and Alberts at 7 where the two guys currently packing down there are not in that same sort of league in terms of grunt. I think that is the reason for Jannies perceived "poor" performances.

Then comes the scrumhalf quandary.. Since du Preez is injured we are fucked. Dropping Steyn from the 23 was huge, as Meyer is looking for something else from Pollard. The question is: will he be able to deliver with Ruan feeding him from the base of the scrum/ruck/mauls?

tl;dr

We're not that shit, hell of a lot better than the Oz setup, a few personal short to be able to put up a challenge for the AB's (but then so are they) - However, no where near a 50 odd pumping like the Wallabies copped.

 

[PaarlBok]

The worst thing to handle in SA when the Bokke lose to the All Blacks , is the amount of flack you have to handle from the All Blacks supporters without front teeth at home. Was the day when the All Blacks beat the Wallabies in Bloemfontein and was quite surprise to see the amount of All Black jersey in Mimosa Mall just before the PRG vs Grey Bloem battle.

 

[PaarlBok]

Dewald, if we keep kicking the ball away we will never be able to beat the AB's. Go back to the Aus game and count how many kicks were effective. The AB's will punish us more than the Wobs did.
Add to that we are not as dominant in the forwards as we have been and it starts to look bleak.
If it was not for individuals in the team who are able to create scoring opportunities from nothing we would be at the bottom of the ladder.
That said I know we will be fired up for this game because in any game against the AB's we always lift, but I cant see it being enough to get us over the line.

This aimless kicking run deeps in our rugby. Watching the CC and it get even worse. I still cant figure out when will the provincial coaches get this right. Our beloved Stormers and WP the perfect example. Since Oom Gert came back and we adjust the gameplan everything change all of the sudden. Sharks under White the other way round. Thats why I just love to walk line at school games. The laaities still throw it around.

 

[Pjmil]

You have no direction from your 10 and 12, who also happens to be the captain. Very average players.