AB successors

[Dan54]

Agree with Brisbok re the 4 & 5 being 2 specialised positions, always thought Donnelly was most likely to take over Thorns position, but beginning to doubt it, and he's starting to get on a bit. I like the look of Todd and Luke Braid to help fill in Richie's boots in a couple of years.Not sure about hooker, I have been an Elliott fan, but not sure about consistency. Think I might wait to see who comes to fore over S15. And general concensus is that Read will trake over as skipper, and he still got a few years in him.

 

[teach]

Ben Smith was unlucky not to be in the squad. he will wear black again. Him and gear will be good for the Highlanders.

 

[WhoDaresWin]

Apart from Todd & Braid, Sam Cane is also a good prospect. The youngest of the Whitelocks (NZ U-20 captain) is also one to watch in the coming years.

Rene Ranger should be pushing his case as well next season.

Every positions seem to have capable replacements coming through....but it's at #2 that I'm still worried about.

 

[pete88]

Yeah gee Ranger and Fruen are due extended runs in the starting jerseys. Never like seeing them get the ball in a Super Rugby match. Nonu and Smith are both kind of pushing it age-wise for the next RWC if you want to be all Robbie and build for the next RWC from now. I wouldn't be surprised if Smith did get the arse kind of soon though.

 

[Jay]

Yeah gee Ranger and Fruen are due extended runs in the starting jerseys. Never like seeing them get the ball in a Super Rugby match. Nonu and Smith are both kind of pushing it age-wise for the next RWC if you want to be all Robbie and build for the next RWC from now. I wouldn't be surprised if Smith did get the arse kind of soon though.

Smith seems to have lost a fair bit of his attacking spark this season. He's still a defensive lynch pin and a cool intelligent head out there, but like you say he's probably not gonna be there in 2015 and like you I wouldn't be surprised if they look to blood Fruean to give him the necessary experience. It'll be interesting to see if SBW sticks around cause those two showed how dangerous they can be in midfield last season.

 

[pete88]

Indeed, I thought he was lucky to hold on this season, but the defence thing probably swayed it for him in the end and rightly so in a World Cup year, the Three Wise Men probably know more about coaching good rugby teams than me to be fair.

 

[Bullrush]

I can't see SBW being at the 2015 RWC to be honest. It would be nice to think that he would stick around and really look to own the 12 jersey.....but I can't see it.

 

[Antony]

I can't see SBW being at the 2015 RWC to be honest. It would be nice to think that he would stick around and really look to own the 12 jersey.....but I can't see it.

It's really going to frustrate me when he goes back to league and they describe him as an 'All Blacks superstar'.

Though I'll admit that he can play a bit. Just not as much as Nonu.

 

[Dai bando]

Apart from the coaching succession which should be known in the not too distant future, what do other Kiwis in this forum think about player successions??

Yes, the RWC is over...we've finally won it back, but it's now time to start the preparation for the defence. Firstly would be the challenge of winning next years expanded 4-Nations...and going on from there.

BBBrad Thorn is gone, Muliaina is gone but we have found capable replacements in Whitelock & Dagg. The win over France & Australia has certaily proved that we can win crucial games without Carter, and we did both of that with two young blokes (and also The Don).

What about the other oldies?? One position I think we will suffer the most at is hooker. Both Mealamu & Hore are in their 30s and we dont know how long they can still go. Next 2 years maybe, but their is just not a good replacement coming up. Flynn is too injury-proned, Elliot maybe but that the only 2 I can think of.

Your thoughts??

I think your bigest loss will be McCaw,He's not just a super player, he holds you together, When France toured over there they beat you in the first test, there was no Carter nor McCaw.
After watching the final it was Mccaw you would have missed more than Carter without him you might have lost the WC, Going to be very tough to replace.[RV][/RV]

 

[Bullrush]

I think your bigest loss will be McCaw,He's not just a super player, he holds you together, When France toured over there they beat you in the first test, there was no Carter nor McCaw.
After watching the final it was Mccaw you would have missed more than Carter without him you might have lost the WC, Going to be very tough to replace.[RV][/RV]

Agree. No matter how good the other players are, a great team usually has a leader, a 'go-to' guy, or someone who simply takes control. McCaw has developed into that guy since 2007 and there is none better in world rugby IMO. Last year, whenever the Alll Blacks were down, McCaw put his hand up and hit more breakdowns, called line-outs to himself, ran more hit-ups and directed the play until they hit the lead. He is definitely more valuable than Carter.

Keiran Read is being touted as the next AB captain but it will be interesting to see how he goes. Will he need a 2007-RWC-like experience to grow inot that leader? And if he does, will he survive it? Being the All Black Captain is a very tough position when things aren't going well - ask Taine Randell or Anton Oliver.

The other thing to take into consideration is the coaching. Henry and Smith will be gone. Hansen is likely to be the front-runner for the position and it's reported that his preferred running mate is Ian Foster. I hope they can maintain the culture that I think Henry worked really hard and made some tough, tough decisions around in creating. From very early in his tenure, he made it clear that he believed that better people made better players. Guys like Nonu and Weepu didn't make it to 2007 RWC. But you don't see a lot of scandal around the team these days. Two guys going out for a beer before the team announcement is the worst in a long time. And even that was pretty weak in terms of scandal. No fighting, no pissing in public, no obscene nudity, no hitting on women - pretty tame really. And look who came to pull them in - the 'poor attitude' of 2007, Piri Weepu.

The next four years will be very interesting.....

 

[Antony]

My worry about Read is this:

I think one of the most commonly confronted hurdles in captaincy is when there are doubts about the captain retaining their position in the side. The most fiercely contested position in the All Blacks is the back-row (or maybe the wing) and we have this habit of picking back-rowers as captain then being surprised when their playing merits get called into question (see: Randell, Blackadder, Thorne...).

McCaw never had to worry about this because he was such a freak, but Read is merely very very good. So I worry that, although Read is undeniably the best number 8 we have now, some young gun will come up in a couple of years and place further stress on an already-fledgling captaincy.

Having said that, I have no better ideas. Unless Cruden really comes on over the next year or two, in which case he could be a good/interesting option.

 

[WhoDaresWin]

My worry about Read is this:

I think one of the most commonly confronted hurdles in captaincy is when there are doubts about the captain retaining their position in the side. The most fiercely contested position in the All Blacks is the back-row (or maybe the wing) and we have this habit of picking back-rowers as captain then being surprised when their playing merits get called into question (see: Randell, Blackadder, Thorne...).

McCaw never had to worry about this because he was such a freak, but Read is merely very very good. So I worry that, although Read is undeniably the best number 8 we have now, some young gun will come up in a couple of years and place further stress on a already-fledgling captaincy.

Having said that, I have no better ideas. Unless Cruden really comes on over the next year or two, in which case he could be a good/interesting option.

I have never been a big fan of having a captain in the backs, although Umaga was an exception.

I quite like the idea of giving the captaincy to Owen Franks sometime soon. (but that's the prop in me talking)

 

[Bullrush]

My worry about Read is this:

I think one of the most commonly confronted hurdles in captaincy is when there are doubts about the captain retaining their position in the side. The most fiercely contested position in the All Blacks is the back-row (or maybe the wing) and we have this habit of picking back-rowers as captain then being surprised when their playing merits get called into question (see: Randell, Blackadder, Thorne...).

McCaw never had to worry about this because he was such a freak, but Read is merely very very good. So I worry that, although Read is undeniably the best number 8 we have now, some young gun will come up in a couple of years and place further stress on a already-fledgling captaincy.

Having said that, I have no better ideas. Unless Cruden really comes on over the next year or two, in which case he could be a good/interesting option.

I can't think of anyone better than Read right now in NZ. But you are right....competition is pretty fierce. For mine, Read is head and shoulders above the rest of the NZ 8's right now but that can quickly change. That's why it's taken so long for an AB to reach 100 Tests.

 

[Bullrush]

Piri Weepu for captain?

 

[Antony]

I can't think of anyone better than Read right now in NZ. But you are right....competition is pretty fierce. For mine, Read is head and shoulders above the rest of the NZ 8's right now but that can quickly change. That's why it's taken so long for an AB to reach 100 Tests.

My particular concern is around Luke Whitelock. He looks the goods (and could be a captain down the track himself).

 

[Dan54]

My particular concern is around Luke Whitelock. He looks the goods (and could be a captain down the track himself).

I think Read is in top 2-3 8s in world, and almost certain to be captain, think Luke Whitelock is a more specialised 6.

 

[Lee Grant]

There's nobody close to Read in NZ and not even an up and comer who looks like it in a year or two. The All Blacks looked a bit below par when he was crocked.

For that matter there's only a couple in the NH who can compare at 8.

Unlike some other positions NZ has always had great backrowers. I'd worry more about the 2 and 9 jerseys.

 

[Tank]

My two bobs on this very excellent thread.

Long range call, but I won't be surprised if Beauden Barrett is the next long term first five replacing Carter. Slade, Cruden and Weepu may fight each other and then Barrett will skate past and establish himself. Of course Tyler Bleyendaal will hope it is him though.

Barrett is 20 now so probably best placed age wise to take over from Carter who will probably go at least another 2 years but probably try and make 2015.

9 is a problem for AB's (as far as problems go...) as they have not had a standout for some time - chopping and changing with Leonard, Weepu, Ellis, Cowan and so on. Not sure I see that ending soon either although Kerr-Barlow may change that.

In terms of 7, I think this will be the most interesting. Hasn't Richie signed for another 4 years with NZRU. Can't see him not wanting to AB's for that time so he will probably play tests for at least another 2 years. Matt Todd currently appears the obvious successor and I believe there is some talk that richie will switch to 6 for the Cru as he slows down a bit which frees up Todd to play 7 - BUT, can we really see richie displacing Kaino for AB's?? I can't but he may be untouchable. Very interesting!

I agree 2 is probably the most "who knows" but one thing is for certain, NZ has a knack of finding an abolsutely world class option every time some one great departs. Who would of thought after Michael Jones and Josh Kronfeld, we would see Richie McCaw. who would of thought after Grant Fox and Andrew Mehrtens we would see Dan Carter. Richard Loe, Carl Hayman, Owen Franks. Cullen, Muliaina, Dagg and so the list goes on. All arguably best in world in their time and all on lists to consider for all time (concede dagg and Franks are a bit young of course - excuse my hyperbole!). Anyway, I think you see what I mean...

Oh for the NZ depth....

 

[Dan54]

I agree Barrett looks like he might have the goods, one of the players I was referring to when I said I was interested to see S15 next year Tank, and I would love someone to get brave enough to try Dagg at 10. I quite hopeful Kerr-Barlow will continue to improve, and get more cosistency, also like the look of the kid from Wellington at 9 (name escapes me at moment, he only about 18). I not convinced we got 12 covered as yet, once Nonu goes,and I don't think SBW will still be here,there seems to be gap.

 

[pete88]

You might well find that SBW takes the whole one year contract thing and bites League in the arse with it. Then in a year or two he comes back as Nonu is fading and takes the 12 shirt, holding it until 2015. I don't think if he goes to League either now or next year rugby has seen the last of him. League has nothing, especially for a non-State of Origin player, to compare to the international game and the RWC in particular.