AB successors

[WhoDaresWin]

Apart from the coaching succession which should be known in the not too distant future, what do other Kiwis in this forum think about player successions??

Yes, the RWC is over...we've finally won it back, but it's now time to start the preparation for the defence. Firstly would be the challenge of winning next years expanded 4-Nations...and going on from there.

BBBrad Thorn is gone, Muliaina is gone but we have found capable replacements in Whitelock & Dagg. The win over France & Australia has certaily proved that we can win crucial games without Carter, and we did both of that with two young blokes (and also The Don).

What about the other oldies?? One position I think we will suffer the most at is hooker. Both Mealamu & Hore are in their 30s and we dont know how long they can still go. Next 2 years maybe, but their is just not a good replacement coming up. Flynn is too injury-proned, Elliot maybe but that the only 2 I can think of.

Your thoughts??

 

[Bullrush]

Eliott looks the goods. I like him.

I can see Fruean being at the next RWC. Maitland as well. Rudi Wulf may push to get back in black too. Alby Mathewson is on the rise and Piri may be looking to take the 10 jersey a bit more permanently in going to the Blues. Borich will be in the mix somewhere. And Brad Mika is playing for the Blues again this year after injury killed 2011 for him. But that's probably a bit of a long shot.

Didn't watch enough ITM Cup this year to see any new talent.

 

[Brisbok]

Apart from the coaching succession which should be known in the not too distant future, what do other Kiwis in this forum think about player successions??

Yes, the RWC is over...we've finally won it back, but it's now time to start the preparation for the defence. Firstly would be the challenge of winning next years expanded 4-Nations...and going on from there.

BBBrad Thorn is gone, Muliaina is gone but we have found capable replacements in Whitelock & Dagg. The win over France & Australia has certaily proved that we can win crucial games without Carter, and we did both of that with two young blokes (and also The Don).

What about the other oldies?? One position I think we will suffer the most at is hooker. Both Mealamu & Hore are in their 30s and we dont know how long they can still go. Next 2 years maybe, but their is just not a good replacement coming up. Flynn is too injury-proned, Elliot maybe but that the only 2 I can think of.

Your thoughts??

There is no doubt Whitelock is a promising young player, but would he be considered a replacement for Brad Thorn? They seem to be different type of players to me. In South Africa the two locks (2nd rowers) are almost considered two completely different positions. The number 4 lock is generally the hard worker, usually not a very flashy player but makes his presence felt in the rucks and mauls and scrums etc (Bakkies Botha). Whilst the number 5 lock is generally the lineout organiser, usually more athletic and might have a tendency to play a slightly 'looser' game (Victor Matfield). Whitelock to me seems more of a number 5 type lock, while Thorn was definitely a number 4.

Any thoughts on this? Other countries, particularly Australia, do not appear to have such a distinction between the two positions and they appear to be far more inter-changeable.

 

[fatprop]

Thorn will be a massive loss, you would also assume Ali Williams won't be around for too much longer so the locks will have lost a load of experience.

Jason Rutledge should be given a chance at Hooker as well

 

[Bowside]

We have this pretty handy coach that we are willing to trade you for the next Jerome Kaino.

You guys would be crazy mad not to take him back.

 

[Bullrush]

We have this pretty handy coach that we are willing to trade you for the next Jerome Kaino.

You guys would be crazy mad not to take him back.

Thanks but we learnt our lesson I was so happy when JON re-signed him before the RWC. It safe-guarded us from the possibility of the NZRFU from taking him back...lol

 

[DPK]

Are there any potential NZ players that represented other countries in the RWC and are therefore ineligible?

I know there were a few players I recognised from the Super 15 and was surprised to see them in the PI teams, but I'm not sure on whether they were legitimate prospects for NZ.

 

[Bullrush]

Are there any potential NZ players that represented other countries in the RWC and are therefore ineligible?

I know there were a few players I recognised from the Super 15 and was surprised to see them in the PI teams, but I'm not sure on whether they were legitimate prospects for NZ.

Fotuali'i Khan is the first one that springs to my mind.

 

[Antony]

I think Boric is more the replacement for Thorn. They're both big strong tighthead locks. He's obviously not as good, but he's still pretty solid.

I think Conrad is getting to the end of his days. He'll start to lose a yard of pace, and can't afford to (hopefully he goes off to his other career with dignity, as befits such a good player). So I think over the next few years we'll see Kahui or Fruean - or maybe even SBW - make that 13 spot their own.

Who is that 12/13 who tore it up for Taranaki this year?

 

[Ruggo]

Kerr-Barlow will rise through the ranks and challenge for the 9 jersey. Hoeata is another lock on the rise.

 

[spectator]

Todd from the Crusaders would have to be a consideration shortly.

I've seen a few good young blokes come through the NZ system in recent years and would like to see whether the likes of Bleyendaal, Robinson and Savea get more prominence in 2012.

 

[crangs81]

Thorn will be a massive loss, you would also assume Ali Williams won't be around for too much longer so the locks will have lost a load of experience.

Jason Rutledge should be given a chance at Hooker as well

Turning 34 this year i'd say Rutledge is too old as well.

 

[Slim 293]

There is no doubt Whitelock is a promising young player, but would he be considered a replacement for Brad Thorn? They seem to be different type of players to me. In South Africa the two locks (2nd rowers) are almost considered two completely different positions. The number 4 lock is generally the hard worker, usually not a very flashy player but makes his presence felt in the rucks and mauls and scrums etc (Bakkies Botha). Whilst the number 5 lock is generally the lineout organiser, usually more athletic and might have a tendency to play a slightly 'looser' game (Victor Matfield). Whitelock to me seems more of a number 5 type lock, while Thorn was definitely a number 4.

Any thoughts on this? Other countries, particularly Australia, do not appear to have such a distinction between the two positions and they appear to be far more inter-changeable.

I think Australia's problem this year was that they were essentially playing what you would refer to as two number 4 type locks...

 

[Brisbok]

I think Australia's problem this year was that they were essentially playing what you would refer to as two number 4 type locks...

Agreed Slim. Judging by comments in the media alone, Springbok teams in recent times seem to be very relieved when Sharpe is left on the bench or out of the squad completely (..and with the exception of the QF, it didn't seem to happen very often! Funny enough, I can't seem to remember an SA vs AUS game in recent history where the Boks had so much dominance in the lineout...).

 

[qwerty51]

Fotuali'i Khan is the first one that springs to my mind.

I have to laugh at that one, Fotuali'i was the best halfback in NZ in 2008. Blame the Crusaders for not starting him

 

[crangs81]

I have to laugh at that one, Fotuali'i was the best halfback in NZ in 2008. Blame the Crusaders for not starting him

I blame Andy Ellis

 

[numbertwo]

This is an interesting thread because the danger is the curse of being the titleholders. We have seen it time and again ( Australia England and SA) where winning the RWC made coaches and players unsackable(?) You can take the adulation too far and think that you're the World Champions no need to change things. From the outside the All Blacks always seem to endeavour to bring young players on and have a reasonable mix in their squad. The alternative is what has just happened to SA and now they almost have to build a team from scratch. The secret surely is trying to maintain a balance between retaining experience and promoting of fresh talent. The RWC cycle has a strong distorting influence on achieving this. Clearly it's easier said then done!! The WBs certainly struggle with this. Good luck! We'll see how you went with it in four years!

 

[Bullrush]

This is an interesting thread because the danger is the curse of being the titleholders. We have seen it time and again ( Australia England and SA) where winning the RWC made coaches and players unsackable(?) You can take the adulation too far and think that you're the World Champions no need to change things. From the outside the All Blacks always seem to endeavour to bring young players on and have a reasonable mix in their squad. The alternative is what has just happened to SA and now they almost have to build a team from scratch. The secret surely is trying to maintain a balance between retaining experience and promoting of fresh talent. The RWC cycle has a strong distorting influence on achieving this. Clearly it's easier said then done!! The WBs certainly struggle with this. Good luck! We'll see how you went with it in four years!

I don't think NZ will have the same problem....or at least to the same degree that previous RWC winners may have had.

Henry is unlikely to seek reappointment for coach so he'll be gone. A lot of the older guys will simply be just that in 2015....much older. They will even question their own desire to be there. And then there is simply just the amount of pressure from up-coming talent that squeezes guys out. Look at guys like Sivi, Joe Roks, Rodney So'oialo who a lot of people probably thought would have been at this cup 2 or 3 years ago. The fact that we have only just got the first AB centurions kinda points to that.

But time will tell I spose....

 

[AngrySeahorse]

Tom Donnelly for one of the lock positions provided he gets back to full fitness & plays like he did when he was in the ABs. I'm biased though - always liked him. Now that he'll be wearing black & red next super rugby season expect the bias to triple. Depends very much on whether he can physically get back to where he was at prior to injury & if the Saders give him enough game time to build match fitness. For mine, when fully fit, he's a better lock than Boric.

 

[WhoDaresWin]

Our stocks in the backline looks good (Ben Smith, Mathewson, Kerr-Barlow, Fruean, Guildford, Maitland, etc..).

I'm kinda hoping like mad that Fruean is indeed given a chance next season.

Then we have the former ABs to prove their form once again (Hoeata, Donnelly & Ross) and I think we should be good.