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8 point tries?

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chief

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EVERYTHING from eight-point tries to the introduction of a rugby league-style interchange system will be up for discussion next month when the International Rugby Board stages a global think tank to improve the game.

The May 13-14 conference, which will bring together 80 of the best thinkers in rugby, is the first of its kind since the Woking Assembly of October 2007, best remembered for what it failed to achieve - a global season and a worldwide trial of the experimental law variations. But since then, there have been a number of significant developments, both good and bad, that have driven home to the IRB the truth of Australian Rugby Union chief John O'Neill's warning this year: "We're in the mass entertainment business."

Although there is no set agenda for the meeting, the issue of how rugby can best leverage the introduction of the sevens form of the game to the Olympic program from 2016 is certain to be discussed. But so, too, is the increasingly precarious financial position of teams around the world. The Queensland Reds effectively are in the hands of an administrator, while estimates are English professional clubs are operating at a collective debt of $42 million.

Almost certainly that will trigger discussion of whether players' salaries can be capped or at least reined in. At present the disparity between pay in Britain/Europe/Japan and Australia/New Zealand is resulting in a massive drain of players to the northern hemisphere.

Where once only those at the golden handshake stages of their careers were prepared to make the move, now much younger players - such as Toulon-bound All Black prop Carl Hayman - are putting money ahead of even World Cup selection.

A 38 per cent reduction in the number of tries being scored in the Premiership has triggered alarm bells in England yet, ironically, the trend in the southern hemisphere is in the opposite direction. Astonishingly, the NSW Waratahs already have scored more points (265) in eight matches than they did in 13 last year (241). And the Crusaders and Reds, with 218 and 219 points respectively from their seven matches, are closing in fast on their 2009 totals of 231 and 258.

There has been speculation in the UK press that the value of tries might be increased following next year's World Cup but past experience has demonstrated that raising the number of points on offer for a try has the unintended effect of increasing penalties because defending sides have more motivation to resort to professional fouls to stop a potential try-scoring movement.

Similarly, there is a cause-and-effect issue to be evaluated before rugby moves to a league-style interchange. Rugby promotes itself as a game for all shapes and sizes but if bigger players are able to take periodic breathers on the sideline, it will lessen the impact of smaller, nimbler players.

And while the suggestion to ban shots at penalty goal taken from within the kicker's own half undoubtedly would reduce annoying time-wasting, it would also rob the game of the "wow factor" provided by a Francois Steyn 65m monster.

Australia, which will be represented at the assembly by O'Neill, ARU chairman Peter McGrath, high-performance manager David Nucifora and community rugby specialist Ian Alker, is expected to prioritise making the game attractive and ensuring it gets full value from inbound Tests. Indications are that from 2012, the custom of two northern hemisphere sides touring Australia to play no more than two Tests will give way to a back-to-the-future format in which one nation - in that year Wales - will play a three-Test series.

And because the Super 15 will be in recess for the three-week Test window in June, there will be an opportunity for Australia's provincial sides to play midweek matches against the tourists.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...n-rugbys-horizon/story-e6frg7mf-1225851126683


What do you all think?

I like the idea of the interchange system, it would stop occurrences like Blood-gate from happening, just imagine if they had it with Pocock and Smith both playing, rotating them, a few times, and what not. Baxter could be included again, say if refs are giving him a hard go, its as simple as a substitution to replace him, and if needed back he could return.

As for 8 point trys, I don't support it. I think it is a lot easier, to just reduce Penalty's and Drop Goals to 2 points. I know I will get roasted for saying it, but that's what it takes. Morne Steyn kicking field goals, and Penalty's from everywhere is certainly not making the game as entertaining. Reduce the value of those, and start popping out yellow cards, like Pete Doherty pops pills, that way a strong deterrent has been set to cynically and intentionally offend at the break down. This being said, I think they should also make adjustments to the how many times you can ruck offend, offend 3 times at rucks, and you are gone. The Assistant referees can count how many times they've done it, or get the sub controllers to record the amount of times they have offended, and then they must produce a yellow card. Keeps it consistent, and fair.

Edit by Moses: Added Message Icon
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
8 point tries? Great idea:

Final Score Reds 37 Waratahs 36

Scorers
Reds
Tries - Daniel Braid, James Horwill, Penalty try
Pen - Quade Cooper 2
Con - Quade Cooper 2,
Drop - Quade Cooper

Waratahs
Tries - Rory Sidey, Wycliff Palu
Pen - Berrick Barnes 4, Daniel Halangahu
Con - Daniel Halangahu
Drop - Berrick Barnes.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
chief said:
Morne Steyn kicking field goals, and Penalty's from everywhere...

I think the game has still been more entertaining this year, even when teams kick penalties. I havent watched a game this year where penalties have been the main source of points, on the contrary all the games I've seen penalties have been suplementary to tries.

As for dropgoals, which I loath, Steyn has been well behaved and only scored one.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Rugby, in my opinion is the ultimate team game, whereby players of all shapes and sizes can play it and work together, although in different roles to achieve the same goal. I always therefore wonder why we allow one person from each team (the kicker) to effectively control 50% (at least) of the scoring.

I was thinking about this the other day, and wondered what a game with no goal penalties and no conversions would look like. I can't help but think it could be a lot more interesting.

Of course i realise it isn't going to happen - and neither are 8 point tries (chief's penalties and drop goals down to 2 points is much more viable). Although in saying that, how much harder is it to get a try over a penalty? You would have to say at least 3 times as hard, and therefore the value of a try should be 3 times as much?
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
DPK said:
chief said:
Morne Steyn kicking field goals, and Penalty's from everywhere...

I think the game has still been more entertaining this year, even when teams kick penalties. I havent watched a game this year where penalties have been the main source of points, on the contrary all the games I've seen penalties have been suplementary to tries.

As for dropgoals, which I loath, Steyn has been well behaved and only scored one.

Wait for the 3N.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
i still reckon they just put a line 30 metres out and your only allowed to go for a penalty goal if the infringement happens inside that area. means for seventy metres of the field if a penalty is awarded they go for the lineout or tap and puts the pressure on. leave the points alone.
 

MrTimms

Ken Catchpole (46)
I can't support dropping the value of Penalties, Field goals I could be convinced on, but the whole point of a penalty is to punish an indiscretion. If you don't want teams scoring them against you, don't do the wrong thing. On the flip side, if the other team is doing the wrong thing (and killing your momentum) why shouldn't you be able to score those points.

I can't see the point in changing try values.
 

HG

Jimmy Flynn (14)
NOoooooooooooo interchange like bogan ball please.
Do not increase the value for a try.
Decrease the value for a field goal to 2.
Play the game to the law as it is on paper (look at the super 14)
It seems to me that the southern hemisphere have come up with plenty of ideas over the last few years and were howled down by the wombats in the north.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Beware of unintended consequences when changing things. Increasing the value of tries by itself won't be of benefit however logical it sounds. But it looks like a no-brainer, doesn't it?

Remember what the mad Irishman said: if a converted try is worth more than it is now, what is going to happen when Team A is raiding the goal line of Team B? Team A will follow the orders of their coach - give up 3 to save 8. If the 3 goes lower and/or the 8 goes higher it will be even worse.

But Lee - the ref will give out yellow cards if they keep doing that. Will they? What evidence have we seen that refs will be willing to use cards as a weapon of compliance? Before you answer, refer back to how the ELV Free Kick sanctions were refereed in the 2008 and 2009 Super14. These relied on cards being used for cynical play but the refs failed in their duty. They didn't even try.

So Lee, turn it the other way around: why don't we have only 6 points for a converted try - or only 5?

Having watched rugby in periods where converted tries (called goals in early days) were worth those values and penalties stayed at 3, I formed the opinion that those converted try values were too low but that 7, like Baby Bear's porridge, is just about right.

If I see a trial period wherein another point is given for a try, including in test matches, and the goal line defence is made less cynical than it is now, (and inevitably made that way by the use of cards IMO), I will change my view lickety-split.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
They changed the rules in Subbies this year: 8 interchanges allowed, people subbed off can come back on. Basically 8 league style interchanges.
 

Running Rugby

Sydney Middleton (9)
The Brisbane competition is being played under a rolling substitutions rule with Premiers to 3rd grade allowed 8 'interchanges' and colts and all lower grades allowed 12 substitutions.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
drop goal to 2 points. Leave the penalty as 3 points. Tries stay the same. Don't mess with the interchange as it will become a circus like League.

that's my 2 bobs worth.
 

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
Scotty said:
I was thinking about this the other day, and wondered what a game with no goal penalties and no conversions would look like. I can't help but think it could be a lot more interesting.

Very interesting hypothesis. You could incorporate metre penalties; for example, for foul play the penalty kick for the line on tap kick would be 20 metres upfield from the offence. Add team fouls - five penalties within the opposition half would result in a penalty try. Might be fun.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
Biffo said:
Scotty said:
I was thinking about this the other day, and wondered what a game with no goal penalties and no conversions would look like. I can't help but think it could be a lot more interesting.

Very interesting hypothesis. You could incorporate metre penalties; for example, for foul play the penalty kick for the line on tap kick would be 20 metres upfield from the offence. Add team fouls - five penalties within the opposition half would result in a penalty try. Might be fun.

it would make for a fun trial run, maybe a basketball type system where three team fouls equalled a shot at goal if wanted
 

HG

Jimmy Flynn (14)
waratahjesus said:
Biffo said:
Scotty said:
I was thinking about this the other day, and wondered what a game with no goal penalties and no conversions would look like. I can't help but think it could be a lot more interesting.

Very interesting hypothesis. You could incorporate metre penalties; for example, for foul play the penalty kick for the line on tap kick would be 20 metres upfield from the offence. Add team fouls - five penalties within the opposition half would result in a penalty try. Might be fun.

it would make for a fun trial run, maybe a basketball type system where three team fouls equalled a shot at goal if wanted

William Webb is now turning over in his grave!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Biffo

Ken Catchpole (46)
HG said:
waratahjesus said:
Biffo said:
Scotty said:
I was thinking about this the other day, and wondered what a game with no goal penalties and no conversions would look like. I can't help but think it could be a lot more interesting.

Very interesting hypothesis. You could incorporate metre penalties; for example, for foul play the penalty kick for the line on tap kick would be 20 metres upfield from the offence. Add team fouls - five penalties within the opposition half would result in a penalty try. Might be fun.

it would make for a fun trial run, maybe a basketball type system where three team fouls equalled a shot at goal if wanted

William Webb is now turning over in his grave!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, with excitement that the game might be played as he intended.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
William Webb is now turning over in his grave!!!!!!!!!!!

[/quote]

some bastard might run with the ball instead of kicking the shit of it. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
 

liquor box

Peter Sullivan (51)
Ruggo said:
drop goal to 2 points. Leave the penalty as 3 points.

I would do the opposite, I would reduce penalties to 2 points as this will help avoid time wasting, but leave Drop goals at 3 points to keep the game flowing, while advantage is being played I would rather an attempt at a drop goal as it is quick, and there are more misses so it will promote a counter move that hopefully goes the length of the field.

An idea I like is to stop the clock after each try and between a whistle being blown and a penalty shot.....give me a full 80 minute game any day, this would increase the number of scoring plays by about 20% due to the extra minutes that are played, imagin the gaps that would occur late in the game.

My most pressing rule vhange I would like to see is that a throw to a lineout that is not straight is only a penalty if the opposition contests the line out.
 
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