4th Bledisloe in Tokyo

[Scarfman]

Paarl, you know I appreciate your presence here but my advice is to steer clear of this ref conversation. I found your comments last time round hypocritical in the extreme. You told all of us to harden up, then turned around and defended your coach for claiming that the refs were cheating against South Africa. Give us a break, OK?

 

[PaarlBok]

Paarl, you know I appreciate your presence here but my advice is to steer clear of this ref conversation. I found your comments last time round hypocritical in the extreme. You told all of us to harden up, then turned around and defended your coach for claiming that the refs were cheating against South Africa. Give us a break, OK?

Me defending the coach claiming that the refs cheating against SA? Cant remember that one, but hey if you dont want me to give my honest opinion , well thats fine. Hate being on a forum and have to post what you lot want me to post and if you dont want me here, do what the TSF lot do, ban me.

If you lose and attacking the ref sound like sour grapes. Lawrense is a ref that like the game to flow and will the rucks let go. The secret is to play like the ref ref and myself honestly will take his ref comparing to most refs reffing like flippen school masters, stop start stop start stop start and talking to players as if the are kiddies. He do make mistakes like every other ref and cant think for one moment he'll favour the All Blacks , just because they are the All Blacks.

 

[Scarfman]

Paarl, do you remember this:

After South Africa wrote to IRB referee's boss Paddy O'Brien, asking for clarity on decisions and were told that Lawrence's decisions were the most accurate of the Tri-Nations, De Villiers said on Monday: "I believe it's a complete waste of time.

"It doesn't matter if we ask for an explanation of the scrum rules. The problem is pointed out but it is not officiated properly by the referee and the other officials on the field."

De Villiers, however, won't be sending another e-mail to O'Brien protesting this week and explained why.

"I believe life within your own country is sometimes a burden because you have to face it every day but when you go outside your borders, you see that it's actually worse.

"People don't want to see other teams being successful. That is my biggest problem at the moment. We can't go public about certain things because we don't have all the evidence, but the body language of certain officials when things went against us in that game made us worry.

"The officials were so happy when decisions went against us on the day. I am talking about the No.1 rugby team in the world. Shouldn't they really get the other guys to that level?

"Or do they want to break things down so that the game can become mediocre and everyone has a chance to win it.

"We don't want to dwell on that point, but if that is the case, then I feel I am wasting my time by talking to them. I will then have to reconsider talking to them."

And then:

PB, you ranted and raved about Aussies criticising refs and you were critical of those who made any comments about refs or officials.....and yet you condone and even celebrate PdVs behaviour. How do you weigh this up?

And then:

Bliksem Spook maybe I put it out wrong. I hate people use the ref excuse before the game is even played and I also state blaming a ref if your team lost sound like sour grapes. Try it it work well for me. This have nothing to do with Snors qoute or the way the media lot made up their own story but having won against the All Blacks this weekend I have to agree a bit with him. Vokken joke the citing of Mossie compare what have happen with Giteau on Newlands or with some of the charges on Habana and not even a card. Also some scetchy decissions going the way of the All Blacks for penalties, exct. I dont go in that shite because I know a ref is only a human and make mistakes and in the end they tend to cancel out. Pretty sure Moses and Gagger would have point them all out if it was the Wallabies who played in test. Simple you lose your eye on the ball when you go in that kak to be honest. I'll rather take a loss on the chin and move on and if you lot dont like it then its your problem.

And then:

I think you might have missed Spook's point, PB.

You didn't like it when we were critizising the referee after a loss.

PDV did exactly that after losing in Brisbane and after losing the scrums in Perth.

I guess Spook is asking why you don't critisize him for this same issue?

And so:

Well if he was a poster here and can read what I write I would do it. But go back to Spooks first post and they way I understand it is that he is critizing the system. He is not allowed to critizise a ref after a game as far as I know and he tried the channel but it obvious dont work after Brisbane or wont work after Hamilton aswell.

We will see the way the scrums works this weekend. I for one believe your scrum is better then all and the sundry qoute Smit as a kak scrummer and he just prove it right on the weekend.

Now its time for Robinson to prove me right. If he dont on the weekend than juast maybe Snor is right.

Madness.

 

[PaarlBok]

Cant see where I posted Snor is right in critizing the refs? :nta:

In that last one I gave credit to Robinson scrumming ability after the Bokke Wallaby test.

But hey I'll stay away from the ref thing and just let you lot spit it out as much as you like. Its disgracefull the way you lot is going about on the refs.

 

[Scorz]

Anyway... Do you guys feel you have to beat the ref before you beat the AB's?

 

[Scarfman]

The bottom line is that the ABs were better than us in at least 3 of the 4 tests this year. Ref didn't make much difference, if any.

 

[Biffo]

Cant see where I posted Snor is right in critizing the refs? :nta:

In that last one I gave credit to Robinson scrumming ability after the Bokke Wallaby test.

But hey I'll stay away from the ref thing and just let you lot spit it out as much as you like. Its disgracefull the way you lot is going about on the refs.

PB, mind answering my question? Did you watch the game? Honest, please

 

[PaarlBok]

Cant see where I posted Snor is right in critizing the refs? :nta:

In that last one I gave credit to Robinson scrumming ability after the Bokke Wallaby test.

But hey I'll stay away from the ref thing and just let you lot spit it out as much as you like. Its disgracefull the way you lot is going about on the refs.

PB, mind answering my question? Did you watch the game? Honest, please

Watched the highlights. Thats all we got this side on the normal MNet with all the CC finals.

 

[Biffo]

Cant see where I posted Snor is right in critizing the refs? :nta:

In that last one I gave credit to Robinson scrumming ability after the Bokke Wallaby test.

But hey I'll stay away from the ref thing and just let you lot spit it out as much as you like. Its disgracefull the way you lot is going about on the refs.

PB, mind answering my question? Did you watch the game? Honest, please

Watched the highlights. Thats all we got this side on the normal MNet with all the CC finals.

Thanks. In the matter of the PB v Board, everyone can rest their cases.

 

[Scotty]

The bottom line is that the ABs were better than us in at least 3 of the 4 tests this year. Ref didn't make much difference, if any.

Yeah, I could only really argue that some decisions (and Burgess) may have cost us the game in the first encounter. In the Sydney test we were in the position to win and couldn't control the game (forwards getting smashed at the breakdown in the 2nd half and Giteau not putting his hand up), the third game we were well and truly raped by the ABs and in the recent encounter it may have been closer if Lawrence had been a bit tougher on the AB tatics, but we didn't really deserve to win anyway.

I get the feeling that if it was an English or Irish ref, then PB wouldn't have has big a reaction to Wallaby fans critising refereeing performances. I think he is just a bit touchy when it comes to his fellow South Africans.

 

[PaarlBok]

The bottom line is that the ABs were better than us in at least 3 of the 4 tests this year. Ref didn't make much difference, if any.

Yeah, I could only really argue that some decisions (and Burgess) may have cost us the game in the first encounter. In the Sydney test we were in the position to win and couldn't control the game (forwards getting smashed at the breakdown in the 2nd half and Giteau not putting his hand up), the third game we were well and truly raped by the ABs and in the recent encounter it may have been closer if Lawrence had been a bit tougher on the AB tatics, but we didn't really deserve to win anyway.

I get the feeling that if it was an English or Irish ref, then PB wouldn't have has big a reaction to Wallaby fans critising refereeing performances. I think he is just a bit touchy when it comes to his fellow South Africans.

Boet I am a WP and Stormers supporter and altho I feel many times being robbed or harsch desicitions by the ref I dont use that as a excuse first up after a match as the reason when my teams lost. Dont matter who the ref was mostly I keep it to myself and only like Spokie ask me after the WP semi lost against the Bulls I'll give him my opinion but NEVER try to use it as a excuse like some here try and hammer a guy doing his job. To be honest no one will know how much further you could have lost if Owens or some of those NH school teacher types would have hammer you with penalties. Watching our CC and to see Stegman & Brussouw fight it out at the breakdowns make some good watching. They tend to play to the refs disitions and I am glad to see refs like Lawrense and Kaplan let the players fight for the pill in rucks. Its a grey area but letting our lot counter ruck and fight for it help our game no end.

Still say you dont deserved that first test against the All Blacks and played only for 20 minutes rugby. That one you lost when Barnes hold on to the ball and not passing to Mortlock with a open line.

 

[Scarfman]

Paarl, (1) you're not really listening to what we're doing here, (2) you didn't watch the game.

But hey I'll stay away from the ref thing and just let you lot spit it out as much as you like. Its disgracefull the way you lot is going about on the refs.

OK, we'll take it from here, mate. No need to repeat your position.

 

[naza]

My frustration was the inability of players to put their hand up from about the 3rd phase of quick ball.

At one stage we had two quality phases and Genia couldn't find someone to take ownership of the next phase. So we waited and the ABs reorganised.

Which is the same problem as the attack, there is not enough "attitude" to get into a position to be the next attacking option, and/or the support for that option whether that be a runner on the inside and outside or a follower to cleanout.

The players always refer to their 'patterns of play'. The pattern so far seems to be one out running and playing as individuals, not teammates. To be fair, its not easy working with such slow static ball against defence that has played you three times this season. I got the impression we were trying to play more in control, more deliberate, in order to cut down the error rate. We just ended up more predictable and the defence were able to really attack the ball carrier. Its hard to find that balance. I'd rather see us go hell for leather and stuff up (The Australian way) than be timid and conservative.

On the attitude thing - its why I'm not so wild about the push towards having a playmaker 2nd 5/8th style 12. I reckon we need the backs to realise that its everybody's job to be a playmaker, create opportunities for guys around them, make good decisions. Not just defer to the 10 & 12 because that's their department.

 

[Epi]

The great shame is that ABs v Wallabies games can't have a kiwi or aussie ref.

Not sure that south african arrogance makes for great officiating sometimes.

 

[Scarfman]

Ehhhhhhpeeeeeee,

I just calmed PB down, now you're starting him up again.

The official position of Green and Gold Rugby is that we love our colonial brothers, and are united in southern hemisphere solidarity against the old enemy.

Of course, our very good friends in the republic can be very direct in their statements at times, but we (officially) just love them all the more for it.

The fuckers.

 

[Epi]

:fishing

 

[Scotty]

I'd be happy to give a kiwi ref a go.

 

[PaarlBok]

I'd be happy to give a kiwi ref a go.

Think they must give you lot the NH refs like we had all year.

 

[Ash]

I'd be happy to give a kiwi ref a go.

I think that the current crop of SA refs are probably the best, on average, in SANZAR. Joubert and Mark Lawrence being some of the better ones. I am more than happy to see SA refs. If we had a Kiwi ref, we might've had Bryce Lawrence...

The offisde at the ruck issue - unless you're at the game, it's very very hard to tell this from the TV shots as you rarely get a wider shot from the ruck. Kearns always whines about sides doing this, but it's hard to tell.

The slowing down at the ruck - I think that if Australia were more proactive in hard clean outs and fighting for their own ball, the All Blacks slowing tactics would become more obvious, and we would've seen more penalties and I think a card. Lawrence didn't do a particularly great job, admittedly, but the Wallabies didn't either. Both could've done better, but you can't blame Lawrence alone.

The creeping around the sides - it's very very rare to see McCaw (or Thomson now) called up on this. As I said, once some more players do it then I think we'll see it policed.

All in all, it was an OK game from Lawrence, the obvious thing I think he could've done better is police the slowing down of the ball at the rucks, be he was far from the worst in this regard that we have seen this Tri-Nations. The Wallabies more of their own enemies than Lawrence was. And you can hardly compare Lawrence's performance to that ref who shall not be named in last year's fourth Bledisloe, which harshly penalised a more deserving Wallaby outfit.