4th Bledisloe in Tokyo

[rugbywhisperer]

I don't quite agree with all the condemnation.
My observations after a second reading of the game is that despite the AB habit of holidaying on our side of the T/R/M we were probably as guilty - we just didn't capitalise on our transgressions.
Our game as I see is again and what seems like a permanent fixture is breaking down at the 10/12/13 where we have absolutely NO ability to make a break, our game plan as has been for the past 8 or so years totally predictable and readable and our skill level at taking the ball up is abysmal.
1: JOC (James O'Connor) - send him home - he is so far out of his depth lifesavers should be called,
2: AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - 12/13 that’s his positions, no where else
3: Giteau is not a 10 and that is part of our stalling predictable attack.

Given the stock of players available, my preference would be to have Cooper at 10, at least he has something in attack no other Aussie player has. Gits at 13, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Morty at 13, wingers are as they are, they are solid and did a lot of work. We only need to find a 15 and therein lies another problem. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is not a 15, his kicks are very ordinary. At this stage Mitchell is our only option but ever since Latham retired we have been in depth deficit at 15. Gees for the sake of mixing it up I would like to see how Beal goes at 15 against Gloucester during the week - it might be our only answer otherwise Mitchell it is.

I hope I never see JOC (James O'Connor) and Cross start another test again. Cross may well prove to be a reasonable bench player but not a starter – not now. JOC (James O'Connor) has run his game – send him back to club land to learn big mans rugby. If the Force want to use him well that's their call but he needs an awful lot of growing up and education in how to play serious tough rugby. He just doesn't have it as far as I can see.

I was happy with the forwards despite the plethora of weird scrum penalties. Next week will be a severe litmus test but I think we will prevail.

Aussie best of the night – in no particular order were Sanchez, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Hynes, Digby, Pocock and Robinson. Also thought Moore was better than previous excursions this year.

 

[Biffo]

RW has hit the nail fair, square and hard. We lost the test match at 10, 12, 13.

That is all.

 

[Pfitzy]

my preference would be to have Cooper at 10, at least he has something in attack no other Aussie player has.

The Benji Marshall hop-n-get-smashed? :nta:

To be honest, at this point I'm willing to give anything a try.

10 Cooper
12 Giteau
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

 

[Ash]

I'm another who couldn't agree more with the 10/12/13 axis. Especially when your 10 has limited vision and likes to take an outside break, and your 13 is a good runner but will always (and I mean always) go across field to try to beat his man on the outside, and take away the space from his winger. Plus AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is a great runner, but not a distributer and J'OC rarely involves himself from fullback. It's really not a good combination and we generated nothing from it, unlike the All Blacks.

 

[Ash]

The lineout was obviously going to be fucked and Deans was too slow to react. Mumm + Sharpe to fix it, with Jimmy learning from the bench. There's about a million lineouts a game - can't just hope for improvement.

You mean Chisholm and Mumm?

I don't think Horwill has even ever called the lineout for the Reds. Maybe there's a reason why the 6 at the Reds has taken the ball so much over the last 3 or so years...

NTA; when you're down and brought on as a reserve, stupid penalties and still stupid penalties and look worse.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

my preference would be to have Cooper at 10, at least he has something in attack no other Aussie player has.

The Benji Marshall hop-n-get-smashed? :nta:

To be honest, at this point I'm willing to give anything a try.

10 Cooper
12 Giteau
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

A problem of the last 10 years or so is that some backs particularly have received the nod on the basis of razamataz as opposed to real substance and rugby skill and Cooper/Beale/JOC (James O'Connor) are typical examples of this. There are plenty of schoolboy players coming through as well who look great but when the custard hits the plate they have little to give in terms of quality rugby intelligence and core skills – they do look good though.
I do feel however that Cooper's game is maturing and if he can rid himself of that meddlesome priest I mean bunny hop/ step his game will improve all the more.
Cooper has skills that set him apart and we need someone to make an initial move forward and off load to a waiting Giteau or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). We need calculated unpredictability.

 

[Dormouse]

Agree that there is a major problem at 10, a need for a specialist fullback, and tall timber in the lineouts of the likes of Vickerman. But while these things have to be fixed, they're not the main problem at present: Rocky dropping that pass in the first minute is the giveaway. Everything about the Wallabies shows a lack of confidence. They're demoralised to the point of having forgotten that they can win, scared when they try to execute a backline movement, and so confused when they do get ahead that they don't know how to hang on to a lead. JO'C is a class player and will get better, but he's young and the last thing he needed was the weight of everyone's expectations of him as the Wallaby's saviour. Giteau is also a class act, albeit playing in the wrong position. Cross also has the talent to be a good outside centre. But we're not going to see any of this quality while the team is in its present state. Yes, certainly work on the structural problems, but I can't help thinking that a few big wins against the easier sides in the coming tour will do as much, if not more.

And, by the way, the rugby management haven't exactly helped the Wallabies this year: whose idea was it to play the test against NZ in Sydney rather than Perth, much further away and where NZ support is much less, and SA in Perth rather than in Sydney? Could easily have made the difference, and we wouldn't still be struggling with the basics as we are now.

 

[mark_s]

I don't think we are giving the all blacks enough credit - thought they were the best I had seen them play all year. The Carter-Nonu-Smith combo was very dangerous and the pigs hunted in a pack as usual. They made very few mistakes, other than their deliberate ones. Some ref is going to come down hard on them one day (my guess is in the RWC 2011) and the kiwis will scream blue murder and the rest of us will say what goes around comes around.

Thought Pocock was great for us, Palu was strong but hang onto the ball FFS. Ioane also good. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) ran well but kicked poorly, in fact all our backs kicked poorly especially when they are not under pressure.

Our scrums improved (kudos to Alexander) but our lineouts deteriorated significantly, combined with the usual stand around and watch the all blacks stuff our ball up in the ruck, I thought our forwards went backwards (if that was possible). OUr backs will be wishing for some quality ball for xmas.

At least the effort was better than Wellington.

I thought the call on Hynes try was wrong, it should have been a penalty try as they only reason there was doubt about it was that Cowan hit with Hynes a high tackle right on the chops.

 

[Lindommer]

I'm starting to think Robbie isn't bringing on reserves to save them from paying them that huge match fee.

The Oz bench are paid a full match fee if they play 80 minutes or none, or anything in between.

But I must agree Robbie's use of his bench the last two years could improve.

 

[Ishmael]

Of course the 10/12/13 axis was an issue. We lost Barnes, had AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) out of position and had the woeful Cross at outside. There was never, ever, ever going to be fluency there. Given the circumstances I thought AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in particular did very well. Gits did OK ad Cross, as I predicted, was fucking useless.

Other than that I thought they played very well. That pack was aggressive, particularly in the first half, and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Ioane looked dangerous. At the end of the day, despite the major disruptions, they weren't that far away. Plug away Robbie, plug away.

 

[fatprop]

On the smarts, Aus used to have a play book, we would do A, then B etc etc.

Deans is not surprisingly trying to get the attack to be more Kiwi-ish; more reliance on individuals beating their man and less on creating the opportunity. The challenge is getting the players to put their hand up.

My frustration was the inability of players to put their hand up from about the 3rd phase of quick ball.

At one stage we had two quality phases and Genia couldn't find someone to take ownership of the next phase. So we waited and the ABs reorganised.

You see it also after Gits takes on the line, we get quick ball and .......................................................... no idea.

On the first Kiwi try, it was lazy defence on the inside, the inside defenders just didn't come across; and that comes down to fitness and attitude.

Which is the same problem as the attack, there is not enough "attitude" to get into a position to be the next attacking option, and/or the support for that option whether that be a runner on the inside and outside or a follower to cleanout.

 

[Scarfman]

Barnes is an organiser. Plus, you just made the case for 2 play-makers, e.g., Cooper + Giteau.

 

[Gagger]

Major difference between us on attack and the Kiwis - they remembered you're allowed to pass the ball. Watch their two tries. Simple catch passes once tackler is committed, often to a man just on their shoulder. No heroics necessary, just the ability to lob a sympathetic pass 1-2m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuwrEpJ_6iY&feature=player_embedded

Our attacking plan A is for Gits or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to step their entire team. Strangely, rarely comes off.

Where did this ability go? Back against the BaaBaas and Italy I thought we'd re-discovered it. Nope.

As for the lineouts - THIS IS FUCKING CRUCIAL. Winning your own ball from a penalty lineout is THE key way to apply pressure in modern rugby. If you can't do it, then the oppo can cheat their arses off outside the red zone, and just fucking laugh at you. Which, of course, is what happened in Tokyo.

 

[mark_s]

While not disagreeing with your basic point, I thought Mccaw's involvement in the first all black try was extraoprdinary, not only to feature twice but also to draw and deliver great passes twice was very impressive. I thought this went beyond the "simple catch pass".

 

[mark_s]

And to complete matters, Woodcock and Sitivatu have each receievd 1 week suspensions. Woodcock for elbowing Smith and Sitivatu for his brain explaosion on AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

I was wondering what made Smith so fired up late in the game

 

[cyclopath]

And to complete matters, Woodcock and Sitivatu have each receievd 1 week suspensions. Woodcock for elbowing Smith and Sitivatu for his brain explaosion on AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

I was wondering what made Smith so fired up late in the game

Whatever you do, don't say as much over at TSF - I got Kirwaned for exactly that utterance!! Apparently Smith got what he deserved. :lmao:

 

[Scotty]

Of course the 10/12/13 axis was an issue. We lost Barnes, had AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) out of position and had the woeful Cross at outside. There was never, ever, ever going to be fluency there. Given the circumstances I thought AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in particular did very well. Gits did OK ad Cross, as I predicted, was fucking useless.

And we all fucking knew that the 10/12/13 wasn't going to work, why didn't Deans. It was like he was playing for a close defeat rather than the chance at a win.

He had two options -

1. direct swap of Barnes for Cooper - chance at a win, possibly a big loss.

2. Change 3 positions just because Barnes gets pulled out - re-pick the worst centre combo of the year, and pick a kid at fullback who isn't quite ready yet.

I don't know why Deans is finding it so difficult? We have all learned a few things so far this year, but it seems he hasn't:

a) Giteau is a poor 10 against good opposition
b) Giteau is a good/great 12 against all opposition, provided he has a 10 that can give him some space
c) AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is our most damaging runner, but doesn't really pass the ball therefore can't be seen as an adequate 12
d) You can't throw together untested center combos (AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Cross) and hope they perform against the best two teams in the world.
e) Burgess is an average halfback (at least Deans has learned this)

I've also learned that our stocks of 6 & 8s appear to have tits for hands.

 

[PaarlBok]

ABs were offside at the breakdown all night. As fucking usual. Our boys stepped up and pushed them back some of the time, but it's making a joke of the sport. We need to call the International Court of Arbitration for Sport.

Vokkit cant believe you lot start the ref one again. :nta: Lawrense is the best one in the business. Blame it on lkak defense from your schoolboy laaitie, tackling a Wallaby iso Conrad. :

 

[Biffo]

ABs were offside at the breakdown all night. As fucking usual. Our boys stepped up and pushed them back some of the time, but it's making a joke of the sport. We need to call the International Court of Arbitration for Sport.

Vokkit cant believe you lot start the ref one again. :nta: Lawrense is the best one in the business. Blame it on lkak defense from your schoolboy laaitie, tackling a Wallaby iso Conrad. :

PB, you watch the game? Honest, now

 

[Scarfman]

Scotty - you forgot:

(f) our lineout sucks and will continue to suck until something changes

And you didn't mention JOC (James O'Connor) - I suppose because he was supposed to be benched, but still ...

It seems that the biggest lesson Deans has learnt from the TriNations is that Pocock is somehow better than Smith.