3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[Quick Hands]

Perhaps an area that diverse and that large in terms of geography needs 2 teams - one for the north west to cater for the Hills, Richmond, Blacktown etc and another for the south west to cater for Liverpool, Cambelltown etc.

 

[p.Tah]

The Hills district, Baulkham Hills, Castle Hill, Galston, Beecroft, Kellyville etc associate themselves as being West. but not 'Blacktown' west. They're snobby westies . That's one reason GWS (based in Blacktown initially) is struggling.

If the Western Sydney Rams were based in Parramatta I think they could link well with that region as well as the region out to Penrith and across to Campbelltown. It's worked for the Western Sydney Wanderers who have managed to Unite all of Western Sydney under one banner, something I didn't think was possible a few years ago.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I agree for ultimate growth of the game we need to strive to compete. But it would be extremely foolish to think we can do it from the ground up. The NRL and AFL were built from a city comp into National comps after 80 years of existence of the competition, and then over 20 years. Even now the AFL is the only one that has a truly national presence.

Looking to build from too many teams in one region both dilutes support and also leaves the comp if it is successful open to both the NRL and AFL's issues of unsustainable teams in the heartland.

The USA is the region to look at for successful sport. The professional franchises have to compete with college sport which is heavily supported by alumni. Does any city have more than two teams in any of the 4 major sports? Yet we think Sydney requires a minimum of 3? Would it not be wiser for the teams to cover larger regions?

The NFL manages to be able to get by with the Jets and the Giants the only New York teams don't they?

New York is actually the anti-thesis to your argument. They have two Baseball teams (Yankees and Mets), two Ice Hockey (Ranger and Islanders), two Basketball (Knicks and Brooklyn Nets) and soon will have two Soccer teams in the Red Bulls and the re-birth of the Cosmos.

 

[The Red Baron]

New York is actually the anti-thesis to your argument. They have two Baseball teams (Yankees and Mets), two Ice Hockey (Ranger and Islanders), two Basketball (Knicks and Brooklyn Nets) and soon will have two Soccer teams in the Red Bulls and the re-birth of the Cosmos.

New York also has a population in excess of 8 million, and is therefore able to properly sustain a number of sporting franchises.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'm not talking about competing directly with AFL or NRL, that won't happen in my lifetime. What I'm alluding to is the fact that rugby in Australia has to consider more than just one issue of what's the best competition in terms of talent. We have to consider expansion and consolidation in non-traditional rugby areas. SA and NZ don't have non-traditional rugby areas to worry about.

In relation to NFL in New York, the Jets and the Giants play in their 1st tier competition, how many teams do you reckon New York would have in its 3rd tier? Ditto for other sports in the US; 1st tier 1 or 2 teams per city, but below that many more. With respect, you're comparing a 1st tier with a 3rd tier, so it's not really a valid comparison.

We do need to compete. But to do that we need to offer the best possible product. We need to be very careful when determining that balance. At present we could produce 8 good quality teams that would provide that product. Ten teams could very well be two teams too far at this point. I'm not saying it cannot occur in the future but it needs to be done in a sustainable and most importing competitive nature. Start with 8. Build the viewership, look to get on FTA (it won't need a great deal of money at first and if it provides an entertaining enough product it could be attractive). Once that is achieved then investigate whether a 9th team is viable in a new location but it should be outside of Sydney.

One of the biggest complaints of many RL fans is that their are too many teams in Sydney and that it could afford to have 2 or 3 less clubs in the NRL.

After say a decade (if it ever gets that far) and we get to ten teams, then and only then should we look to add an extra team in Sydeny if ever. It will all depend on 1) the quality of competition 2) the marketing of that competition 3) the degree each team looks to engage their 'region' and 4) whether there is a adequate level of support for the existing region so that any new one will not cannablise that base.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

New York also has a population in excess of 8 million, and is therefore able to properly sustain a number of sporting franchises.

Yeah, I should have mentioned that New York City has a population of 8 million and around 19 million within its greater metropolitian area.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Why don't we look at something like perhaps 9 teams in Sydney? Something like the Eastern Suburbs, Manly, Cronulla, Penrith, Parramatta, Balmain, Canterbury, South Sydney, and one covering the St George and Illawarra regions. Then perhaps another at Newcastle, one in Canberra, one in Townsville, one in Brisbane, one on the Gold Coast and maybe one in Melbourne too? Maybe even look at adding one based in Auckland...

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The Hills district, Baulkham Hills, Castle Hill, Galston, Beecroft, Kellyville etc associate themselves as being West. but not 'Blacktown' west. They're snobby westies . That's one reason GWS (based in Blacktown initially) is struggling.

If the Western Sydney Rams were based in Parramatta I think they could link well with that region as well as the region out to Penrith and across to Campbelltown. It's worked for the Western Sydney Wanderers who have managed to Unite all of Western Sydney under one banner, something I didn't think was possible a few years ago.

I think it could as well. Though, they will need to market it aggressively to ensure they get the interest required.

 

[Dave Beat]

Geography lesson, west is when you have to cross the Spit or Roseville Bridge.
It reads as if this is going to take place after the SS, I think stick with no more than 8 and that 8 includes WA & VIC it is just when they join.
Nth Harbour (Manly, Warringah, Norths, Gordon) - Brookie oval.
Sth Harbour. (Souths, Randwick, Easts, Uni) - Played at ??
Western Sydney. (Parra, Penrith, Eastwood, Wests) - Parra Stadium.
QLD (1)
QLD (2)
ACT (1)
WA
VIC
8 quality teams.
As I've said, it would be great to turn up and watch 2 games U21's and Grade. I don't think the other codes have managed the U18, U19, U20's well and I think if we really target and promote that bracket it will create greater exposure going forward.

 

[Lindommer]

The proposed South Harbour side should play at either Redfern Oval (have you seen the it since it's been done up?) or Kogarah. Not a lot of good places to play in Sydney's inner east/south.

 

[Quick Hands]

The Hills district, Baulkham Hills, Castle Hill, Galston, Beecroft, Kellyville etc associate themselves as being West. but not 'Blacktown' west. They're snobby westies . That's one reason GWS (based in Blacktown initially) is struggling.

If the Western Sydney Rams were based in Parramatta I think they could link well with that region as well as the region out to Penrith and across to Campbelltown. It's worked for the Western Sydney Wanderers who have managed to Unite all of Western Sydney under one banner, something I didn't think was possible a few years ago.

The key difference with soccer was that they already had the junior clubs and fans there, they just had no-one to follow. Rugby has the added problem of needing to establish itself in many of these areas. While we can apply the western Sydney banner to a whole area, there are many who are quite parochial about their part of it. You've already correctly identified the Hills and people I know in the Cambelltown area and Liverpool area are crying out for a major sporting code to base themselves there. They really resent the fact that they used to have Wests RL play out of Orana Park and in the merge with Balmain, they now get 4 games (usually the ones that won't draw a crowd at Leichhardt or the SFS).

For once I'd like to see rugby take the initiative and make a positive move. I'm actually surprised by the "it'll never work", "let's play it safe" do as little as possible thoughts on this thread. Rugby is planning to LOSE $5 million on this in the first year with decreasing LOSSES for the following 4, to MAYBE break even after 5 years. If you're going to spend that money you want to go for it and come out at the end with something to show for it. Not just a glorified status quo with teams based on the north shore/northern beaches, south east and a token western team, which really represents the already rugby areas of Eastwood/Hills.

Nothing lasting or worthwhile has ever been achieved by playing it safe with the low risk, wait and see how it goes approach.

 

[emuarse]

The most important singular factor to making this 3rd tier competition a success is to have tribal following, whereby fans can focus in on their team and be a part of the culture.
Probably the best answer to allow for this to happen, is to have six teams.
Five teams entities are easy: Perth, Canberra, Melbourne, Sydney, and Brisbane.
But the sixth?
Create a team for Adelaide. There is no Rugby league there (yet), and if enough players can be obtained from elsewhere, this will generate an interest that will become self fulfilling.
It is not a long season, so players can be brought in and billeted from the Super 15 rugby squads, along with a selection of top club players close to Super 15 selection.
There may be a lot of negatives for Adelaide, but I'm looking for the positives.

 

[Brumby Runner]

In the ACT the Vikings club could afford to enter a team easily, they also have a quality local ground , the draw back is its in the burbs thou. People would enjoy Manuka more.

Although I come from the northern area of Canberra, I do prefer Viking Park to Manuka as a spectator ground. The atmosphere is simply unbelievable with the main stand only metres from the playing area. Having said that, I did enjoy the ARC at Manuka, just not as much as Viking Park.

I'd like to see the new Gungahlin oval get some games as well, but maybe trial matches for the Brumbies as it will be close to the new headquarters at UC.

 

[Jets]

The reverse is probably true, unfortunately. Do you anybody who would put the money up for a totally unproven competition?


If you do, send me their name, I have a slightly used Harbour Bridge that they might be interested in buying.

Yet all the talk is that people don't want Sydney Uni to have a team? Surely we should encourage them to invest in the development of Australian rugby?

 

[Done that]

Yet all the talk is that people don't want Sydney Uni to have a team? Surely we should encourage them to invest in the development of Australian rugby?

How about investing in all the clubs to promote the development of Australian Rugby?

 

[wamberal]

Yet all the talk is that people don't want Sydney Uni to have a team? Surely we should encourage them to invest in the development of Australian rugby?

If they were interested in Australian rugby, they would be encouraging the sport at the grassroots, which is what the district clubs do. They are only interested in their own success, based upon exploiting ready made players, not growing the game from the young kids up.

Which kid in Penriff or Logan is going to identify with "Sydney University" as a team to follow?

They have considerable resources, they should be sharing them around, not hogging them (and hogging all the proven schoolboy stars to themselves, thanks partly to us, the taxpaying public and our contributions to tertiary education).

 

[boyo]

Geography lesson, west is when you have to cross the Spit or Roseville Bridge.

From your perspective.

 

[boyo]

Which kid in Penriff or Logan is going to identify with "Sydney University" as a team to follow?

You could say the same about most club teams.

 

[Dave Beat]

From your perspective.

Didn't make it to Uni, TK did and he doesn't call it west so it is in the eye of the perspector.

 

[Dave Beat]

You could say the same about most club teams.

Short and sweet this morning boyo.

I think Uni could stand alone, and there are a couple of clubs not far behind who could make a real good fist of it.

Probably a lot of reasons why this wouldn't work but I'd like to see Sydney Uni representing west and they must include players from Parra, and Penrith in the 23 - I have that thought only for development reasons, not for anti Uni reasons