2022 Bledisloe Cup. Wallabies vs All Blacks

[stillmissit]

Rugby is a physical game and young men can get carried away, particularly if something has been done to them. We seem to attack all our players for any OTT physicality ie Swinton, Hodge and now Swain. Can we just get real and assume that these guys are not out there to kill or maim, let them take their sentence and move on?
For some guys (me inc when young) it is a learning process, what are the limits and how hard can I go!
I could be wrong but I don't see the Kiwi's or the SA's piling on their players as if they should be banned from playing forever. These countries' players are all out there playing again after doing their time, surprisingly Eben Etzebeth, who was a nut case as a young man, has calmed down - apart from the eyes...
If you want hard players and no-nonsense forwards you have to give them time experience and to adjust.

The attacks on Swinton are some of the worst I have seen.

 

[Adam84]

There’s a difference between physicality and recklessness.

 

[Dan54]

I could be wrong but I don't see the Kiwi's or the SA's piling on their players as if they should be banned from playing forever. These countries' players are all out there playing again after doing their time, surprisingly Eben Etzebeth, who was a nut case as a young man, has calmed down - apart from the eyes...
If you want hard players and no-nonsense forwards you have to give them time experience and to adjust.

The attacks on Swinton are some of the worst I have seen.

Mate you haven't seen atcks by kiwi psoters on the likes of Scott Barrett and Nepo Laulala , all countries have same types of supporters etc, Aussie ones are no worse than anyone else.
I agree on Swinton etc, and it a hard bloody game and very physical, why I only say there only a couple of instances where I said I thought it was dog stuff. I can understand almost how you fall on someone as he scores a try, but found Loe having elbow down extremely shit in the extreme, same as Swain ,I can understand perhaps up to a point hitting accidently from side of knee (still a yc etc etc), but what was inexcusable (like Loe) was grabbing his foot in a seemingly very reckless act and dragging his foot out causing more damage, so like Loe looked like an attempt to injure rightly or wrongly.

 

[qwerty51]

Rugby is a physical game and young men can get carried away, particularly if something has been done to them. We seem to attack all our players for any OTT physicality ie Swinton, Hodge and now Swain. Can we just get real and assume that these guys are not out there to kill or maim, let them take their sentence and move on?

Sorry what's Hodge doing in here?

 

[John S]

There’s a difference between physicality and recklessness.

And there's a difference between reckless and intentional.

I grant it's reckless - and stupid. But I'm with the others I don't think he intentionally went there to injure.

 

[stillmissit]

Sorry what's Hodge doing in here?

Hodge's tackle on the Fijian in RWC. Half the world went mental.

 

[stillmissit]

There’s a difference between physicality and recklessness.

There are many people who have never taken a risk in their lives, living out their time in a government position and have NEVER done anything reckless but they don't play rugby union!

 

[stillmissit]

If you want physicality it comes at a price and there are very few players like Loane was, hard, uncompromising and totally clean.
I think Fardy was in that league to.

Don't get me wrong I am not suggesting we turn the game into roller ball. It is a game that turns boys into men and I want it to stay that way. It's just that many want the game to be softer and more gentle and I can't see how the two square.

 

[Braveheart81]

Don't get me wrong I am not suggesting we turn the game into roller ball. It is a game that turns boys into men and I want it to stay that way. It's just that many want the game to be softer and more gentle and I can't see how the two square.

It's not about making the game softer, it's about keeping the physicality but educating players through both a carrot and stick approach that certain actions need to be avoided because they are very dangerous.

We've come a long way in recent years. Dangerous lifting tackles are almost non-existent. There are far more reckless challenges for the ball in the air and we're now trying to reduce the frequency of accidental high shots.

We want jackaling to continue. It's an important part of the modern game. We know though that a cleanout like the one Swain did is unbelievably likely to cause serious injury. We need to change player behaviour so they don't do that.

 

[stillmissit]

Brave Heart: If you want to reduce reckless behaviour then I would look at getting rid of guys like the English grub Jonny Hill, a player who will give you a quiet knee in the groin and run away. Swain's retaliation against him was stupid and the result depressingly predictable.

You, as I do, want to retain Jackling but in this environment, it is only a matter of time as anything that can be done to make the game totally safe, will be done by men with no idea of what will be lost in the process. This great game is on its way to sanitation and oblivion.

 

[Adam84]

Hodge's tackle on the Fijian in RWC. Half the world went mental.

That tackle wasn’t a demonstration of ‘physicality’, it was poor technique. you seem to be conflating issue here.

poor technique and/or reckless behaviour aren’t ‘physicality’. Swains clean-out wasn’t a demonstration of physicality, it was either vindictive or poor technique, I expect/hope the later.

 

[stillmissit]

That tackle wasn’t a demonstration of ‘physicality’, it was poor technique. you seem to be conflating issue here.

poor technique and/or reckless behaviour aren’t ‘physicality’. Swains clean-out wasn’t a demonstration of physicality, it was either vindictive or poor technique, I expect/hope the later.

Bollocks, Hodge's tackle against a huge guy was, to my mind, a strong and brave attempt to stop a train. He attempted to get his arms around him and had that tackle been done this year it would have been a yellow card maximum.
If Hodge was not a demonstration of physicality then I would love to see you stop a 110kg Fijian 5m from the try line with your better technique?

 

[John S]

Come on, I think this has rolled around enough times - no one's going to agree on this.

(Having just put my $0.05 in a few minutes ago)

 

[tragic]

Dangerous lifting tackles are almost non-existent.

Like everything they’ve gone too far though. A penalty if they get gently placed back on their feet? And a yellow if they land safely but not on their feet?
No issue with the red for landing on the head/neck/shoulder but the rest just adds to the litany of cards, frame by frame TMO reviews and penalty milking.
That tackle on FF (Folau Fainga'a) was less dangerous than half the tackles in the game. Ref was technically wrong not to have awarded a yellow but why should a team be one down for 10 for that???

 

[Bullrush]

That tackle wasn’t a demonstration of ‘physicality’, it was poor technique. you seem to be conflating issue here.

poor technique and/or reckless behaviour aren’t ‘physicality’. Swains clean-out wasn’t a demonstration of physicality, it was either vindictive or poor technique, I expect/hope the later.

Your profile pic is hilarious!

 

[qwerty51]

Hodge's tackle on the Fijian in RWC. Half the world went mental.

The one where he got completely bounced off? Bit weird to include him with the likes of Swain and Swinton.

 

[Bullrush]

Bollocks, Hodge's tackle against a huge guy was, to my mind, a strong and brave attempt to stop a train. He attempted to get his arms around him and had that tackle been done this year it would have been a yellow card maximum.
If Hodge was not a demonstration of physicality then I would love to see you stop a 110kg Fijian 5m from the try line with your better technique?

This is Hodge's tackle on Yato? The shoulder to the head which left Yato concussed?

 

[Braveheart81]

Like everything they’ve gone too far though. A penalty if they get gently placed back on their feet? And a yellow if they land safely but not on their feet?
No issue with the red for landing on the head/neck/shoulder but the rest just adds to the litany of cards, frame by frame TMO reviews and penalty milking.
That tackle on FF (Folau Fainga'a) (Folau Fainga'a) was less dangerous than half the tackles in the game. Ref was technically wrong not to have awarded a yellow but why should a team be one down for 10 for that???

I actually had no issue with the tackle on Fainga'a not being yellow carded. I thought a penalty was sufficient. He was lifted, he got slightly beyond the horizontal but then was brought back down and landed at a less than horizontal angle.

The point to the whole thing though is that player behaviour has changed substantially and players generally know not to lift the ball carrier off the ground. We used to see it frequently and it used to be considered a very good tackle (when it didn't go badly). We worked out though that there is negligible difference between a lifting tackle that is legal and one that goes wrong (whether it's because another player gets involved in the tackle of the ball carrier has passed the ball so they stop fighting the contact) so it was imperative to just try and get rid of them.

 

[Tomthumb]

There’s a difference between physicality and recklessness.

Its a fine line

This isn't a video game. You cant expect big guys to fly around and make split second decisions while trying to dominate contact areas while at the same time demand there are less injuries' than a pillow fight

 

[Braveheart81]

Its a fine line

This isn't a video game. You cant expect big guys to fly around and make split second decisions while trying to dominate contact areas while at the same time demand there are less injuries' than a pillow fight

I can't believe you're still arguing that cleaning out a guy right below the knee is just part of it being a physical sport.

The fact that it happens so rarely should be a good indication that most players are pretty good at not doing reckless things that have a high probability of injuring others.