2018 TV ratings and crowd numbers

[Gnostic]

Again I will just point out that management can only be judged by their effectivenss at managing the factors under their control.





Do you accept, yes or no, that the greater majority of factors that influence the success or failure of our game are totally outside the control of us, management, supporters, players, Uncle Tom Cobbley and all?





That fact is the reason that our fate is just not in our hands, it would not matter how effective we were, or are, or will be.





I keep homing in on this point, because I have had a long working life, have worked for some very average organisations, and a couple that were world class in some respects. Ironically, one of those was a sporting organisation (not in rugby, and not in Australia) which was a giant in the sport, and hugely profitable.





The main reason that it was so popular was that it had a virtual monopoly of a kind, in a rich market. The management was okay, but certainly not world-class, and yet the financial and other results were world class. That is because the factors that were not in management's control were factors that virtually ensured success. It would have taken a very stupid (indeed deliberately awful) management to have stuffed things up.





The sooner we accept that harping on about management as the only thing we have to change to save us, the sooner we will face the real problems. Solving the real problems will require a total shift in attitude by all of us.





You, me, everybody who loves the game. We all have a responsibility to work together, cooperatively, and selflessly. Some will win, some will lose, but that is inevitable for the game to survive at a level.





I know you think there are simple answers. I can only say that if there are simple answers, they have eluded us as a game in Australia for the last 100 years.

Wamberal you are nothing if not consistent, even when presented with evidence for years on end that management decisions were driving poor outcomes.

I have been posting here for more than a few years, and started off by predicting outcomes from management decisions all those years ago. I make no claims of prescience or vast intellect or anything special but a total lack of bias for teams or provinces and strict analysis. I MAY not be your age, but I have found in a life of owning and running my own businesses (and I still eat so I must be doing something right) and in a branch of the Public Service before that, age is no guarantee of wisdom and life experience meaningless unless the individual has learnt from it, so spare us the age & experience arrogance.

If your proposal was really true then what Redshappy posted earlier would be true and the ARU could be recued in scope to mere liason because nothing they do has any real impact and they are a waste of money and food. It would also mean that the outcomes we have seen from policies enacted would not have occurred, not because the policies would not have happened simply because they have no real impact if your theory is correct. That is not the fact and at each point some of us have accurately predicted the outcomes that each policy and decision has had, even when that policy/selection has been initially popular, such as the Giteau rule, ARC.

As with all largely anonymous forums this place has a very large array of life experience and professions posting, and whilst my opinion is no more valid than yours, I actually have a weight of evidence behind me after all this time, and people are coming to realise that what many have been saying about the ARU and co is actually correct and we can see the real outcomes. Alternatives have been proposed in the past and they were distasteful to others and seen as provincial and/or biased when that was not the fact. Now we are coming to the time when there is only one possible choice, and one outcome. I do not accept it is inevitable even now but it becomes more so the longer the ineptitude of management is allowed to continue at every level, and that is exactly what was predicted years ago and reasons were given then with alternatives.

Your way is nothing but a continued support of those obtaining benefit from the system for doing nothing of merit deserving of the benefits obtained.

 

[charlesalan]

Sorry Wam but this is not the right

I am a supporter of the game, mate, and have been since long before you saw the light of day, I would guess. I have seen the ups (which were not all that up), and the many downs.


I must have missed the AFL doldrums. Can you give me a bit more information? And while you are at it, how exactly do you know how our management, or theirs for that matter, spends its time?

This is not the correct thread for an AFL history lesson, mate, and you know it, but I have seen B Pulver suck on a complimentary shiraz at corporate functions more than once and I have seen C Clyne knock back some free beers at clubs and I have seen them soak this up with rare roast beef canapes, cheese platters and lots of other treats, and they spend a lot of time shaking each others' hands and patting each other on the back - so that's how I know what they do, mate.

 

[Braveheart81]

There would be something seriously wrong if the CEO of RA isn't attending corporate functions on a regular basis.

 

[Boof1050]

Sorry Wam but this is not the right

This is not the correct thread for an AFL history lesson, mate, and you know it, but I have seen B Pulver suck on a complimentary shiraz at corporate functions more than once and I have seen C Clyne knock back some free beers at clubs and I have seen them soak this up with rare roast beef canapes, cheese platters and lots of other treats, and they spend a lot of time shaking each others' hands and patting each other on the back - so that's how I know what they do, mate.

In Melbourne??? Hmmm!

 

[charlesalan]

There would be something seriously wrong if the CEO of RA isn't attending corporate functions on a regular basis.

I was just responding to Wamb who asked how I knew what they did, I wasn't making a judgement call

 

[charlesalan]

In Melbourne??? Hmmm!

Oh yes, and in Sydney, Brisvegas and Canberra too (I get around too, but I paid for mine) - BTW the only time I saw B Pulver in Perth he was sweating like a pig that knows it's dinner - that was at the Senate Inquiry

 

[Braveheart81]

I was just responding to Wamb who asked how I knew what they did, I wasn't making a judgement call

Well you did. You said they were too busy doing this to do their job.

It seems like a strange take to assume that the public appearances of execs are a guide to how they spend the majority of the time in their job.

 

[charlesalan]

Well you did. You said they were too busy doing this to do their job.

It seems like a strange take to assume that the public appearances of execs are a guide to how they spend the majority of the time in their job.

well it would certainly explain the stupid decisions that they made in axing the Force and paying millions to a privately owned Franchise

 

[half]

Wam I posted in relation to a post you made saying we can't blame the current Admin for the sins of past Admins... to which I replied..

HHHHmmmmmm but but but but.

If you understand this as a management then you need to take special care to adopt "best practice" management.

Not to apply best practice in circumstances like we have boarders on negligence, but to allow a process to develop or not correct past poor practices is not what we need.

You then replied with they cannot control that for which they have no control,

Again I will just point out that management can only be judged by their effectivenss at managing the factors under their control.

Do you accept, yes or no, that the greater majority of factors that influence the success or failure of our game are totally outside the control of us, management, supporters, players, Uncle Tom Cobbley and all?

That fact is the reason that our fate is just not in our hands, it would not matter how effective we were, or are, or will be.

.

I'll be honest with you, your lack of faith in the game scares me. If this attitude is more widely spread then we are toast.

I read very widely across sports management type articles and have always studied what other codes are doing to see if we can learn anything and or see a future problem and do something about it.

There is nothing wrong with the game, its the second most popular Football type code in the world.

There is and always has been issues in Australia, and its mostly been down to systems, structures, and attitudes at the top that have lead to IMO many outrageous decisions over the years. If you want I can name and illustrate a couple.

The screaming off the page issue is the lack of an independent national domestic competition.

As a former CPA you would be fully aware of audit requirements and the key success is to have a separation of powers with the front and back office under different control.

Astounded and amazed that you believe no matter what we do, our future lies in what the AFL & NRL do.

 

[hoggy]

Well, yes. That is an option. Semi-professionalism, here we come.

Yes I suppose, its called reality, if Australia can't sustain a fully professional league but still operates one, to do this you have to subsidize it, which is what we do now. But that money comes from somewhere and as with everything in life at a cost.

Hangovers are crap, but only then can you be sober.

 

[Spieber]

Crowd for Easts v St George at SFS - 41,142.

 

[charlesalan]

Collingwood v Essendon 92,000

 

[Quick Hands]

Which form of argument is more defensible over time: one, the notion that a code's administration has little responsibility for that code's survival and prosperity as that code is simply destined for declining marginality vs the greater attraction of other competing codes OR two, a highly paid administration has direct responsibility, no matter how minor the code comparatively, to optimise that code's performance and sustain its credibility and attractiveness with its fan base and other stakeholders.

The rational derivate of the former of the above two propositions is that that administration should either not exist - as it has limited or no sustainable value - or be of a very low cost, dealing with legal or regulatory issues only, type. This being the case, there is barely any argument for having an administration at all and that rugby (in Australia, uniquely) should have just shut up shop perhaps 15+ or so years ago.

This would make, or have made, Australia virtually the only original rugby playing country in the world where such a negative 'total destruct' outcome was proven to be the only possible or pre-destined outcome.

Curious then that (a) in soccer-mad Europe rugby is now consistently growing and (b) in NFL and soccer dominated USA rugby and rugby 7s are both growing well.

And let's not forget Ireland, where rugby is in great shape, but is in competition with soccer, gaelic football and hurling in the same way we have league, Aussie Rules and soccer.

We're repeatedly told that because we aren't in complete control of all aspects of rugby within Australia, that we are doomed to fail regardless of how good or bad our administrators are. League and Aussie Rules are used to make this point, but in Ireland Gaelic football and hurling are under complete domestic control and both have higher participation rates than rugby and yet rugby in Ireland is going from strength to strength.

It seems that having competition for other sports - including those with domestic control may not have as great an impact as we are led to believe. Perhaps the administration of the IRFU is proactive and efficent in contrast to the ARU/RA?

From page 22 of the attached.

Table 3.4: Participation Rates for the 15 Most Popular Activities
(Excluding Walking)
Rank Activity Male % Female% Total%
1 Swimming 12 17 15
2 Golf 17 3 10
3 Aerobics/Keep fit 5 10 8
4 Soccer 13 2 7
5 Cycling for leisure 6 3 5
6 GAA football 8 <1 4
7 Billiards/Snooker 6 <1 4
8 Pitch & Putt 4 2 3
9 Tennis 3 3 3
10 Jogging 3 2 3
11 GAA hurling 5 <1 3
12 Fishing 4 <1 2
13 Soccer 5-a-side 4 <1 2
14 Weight Lifting 4 1 2
15 Ten pin bowling 2 2 2
https://www.sportireland.ie/Researc..._Adults_2004_/Sports_Participation_Health.pdf

 

[Strewthcobber]

Collingwood v Essendon 92,000

And sell out 25,731 down the road for Storm v warriors

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[wamberal]

And sell out 25,731 down the road for Storm v warriors

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Yeah but. Something.

 

[Strewthcobber]

12,368 at Suncorp for Reds v Lions
8,215 at GIO for Brumbies v Crusaders

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[Strewthcobber]

Brumbies v Crusaders - 49k
Blues v Jags - 36k
Reds v Lions - 42k

Hockey Stanley Cup final - 90k
ALeague final - 110k
Giants v Lions - 186k
Liverpool v Stoke City on SBS - 79k


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[hoggy]

Brumbies v Crusaders - 49k
Blues v Jags - 36k
Reds v Lions - 42k

Hockey Stanley Cup final - 90k
ALeague final - 110k
Giants v Lions - 186k
Liverpool v Stoke City on SBS - 79k


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Do those figures include FTA, or are they exclusive pay TV

 

[jimmydubs]

Wow. I’m surprised at the ice hockey figure. Not something I’d ever dream of watching but it pulled impressively

 

[wamberal]

Wow. I’m surprised at the ice hockey figure. Not something I’d ever dream of watching but it pulled impressively

I used to watch it, when I lived in Hong Kong. Sometimes there was not much choice in sports to watch on the box. Like a number of popular sports, it can be bloody entertaining when you get into it.