2017 Under-20 Competitions including Oceania & World U20s

[Brumby Runner]

Thanks Silverado, so watched the final and really enjoyed it, struck me that in NZ we may have a few good boys coming through, I was very impressed with Enari at 9, Jacobson the captain at 6, Aumua at 2(a bloody tank), all 3 boys that played on the wing (obviously one replacement) were good too. Also very impressed with midfield defence and how organised they seemed to be. Actually the front row looked impressive at scrum time too, so were also well coached.

I was beginning to think your 7s coach might have been involved.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Very wise words and a large difference between us and particularly the all blacks and England. With our dire financials (aru) all our boys have really is club rugby and they don't even get to play that much.

I am seriously not convinced that the nrc is the answer; too loose, NO defence and a lot of dropped ball. Just crap, teaching bad habits. Maybe I need to give it more time (nrc) but I don't know if our financials will allow it. So it's back to club rugby for me.


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I really do think the NRC is the answer, but the laws of the game should reflect those in force in Super Rugby and test match rugby. Although, I do think the reduction in the value of a penalty goal to two points is a step in the right direction. Would like to see that at every level of the game.

 

[Happy to Chat]

I thought McNamara was comfortably in our top few players for the tournament. He was consistently good.

Hutchison was alright but was probably limited in his opportunities. He certainly wasn't poor though.

Kennewell clearly had a disappointing tournament.

Certainly McNamara and Hutchison performed better than the guys in the squad who could play those positions who appeared on the bench or were outside the matchday 23.

I would be highly surprised if Cron didn't take the same option next year and pick eligible 7s players who are playing well.

I think McNamara in particular has improved out of sight on the 7s tour this year.

Ngamanu who played well throughout the super 20's did not even make the bench and in my opinion would have done as good a job on either the wing or fullback. Anderson never did much and again in my opinion Angus Allen would have been a better option. Hutchinson never really got himself involved in the game as a playmaker and Kenewell didn't impress much. By no mean am I saying they're not good players just the model of dropping straight in from sevens, did not achieve the desired outcome.


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[Braveheart81]

Ngamanu who played well throughout the super 20's did not even make the bench and in my opinion would have done as good a job on either the wing or fullback. Anderson never did much and again in my opinion Angus Allen would have been a better option. Hutchinson never really got himself involved in the game as a playmaker and Kenewell didn't impress much. By no mean am I saying they're not good players just the model of dropping straight in from sevens, did not achieve the desired outcome.

This is generally tinkering around the edge of the squad though. Cron certainly didn't think Ngamanu was good enough to play ahead of Tupou and Anderson and Kennewell barely played.

So Allen could have had a nice trip to Georgia instead of Anderson and played half a game of rugby? It doesn't really change much.

 

[Moon Dog]

I thought McNamara was comfortably in our top few players for the tournament. He was consistently good.

Hutchison was alright but was probably limited in his opportunities. He certainly wasn't poor though.

Kennewell clearly had a disappointing tournament.

Certainly McNamara and Hutchison performed better than the guys in the squad who could play those positions who appeared on the bench or were outside the matchday 23.

I would be highly surprised if Cron didn't take the same option next year and pick eligible 7s players who are playing well.

I think McNamara in particular has improved out of sight on the 7s tour this year.

Picking players in their correct positions is important. McNamara was the best they had for fullback and Hutchinson was the best they had for wing but is too small for my liking in the 15s especially in defence

 

[Braveheart81]

Picking players in their correct positions is important. McNamara was the best they had for fullback and Hutchinson was the best they had for wing but is too small for my liking in the 15s especially in defence

We'll likely find out more next year given he has a Super Rugby contract.

Cam Clark was by far the Waratahs best defensive winger even though he was also easily their smallest because he had good technique and was willing to put his body on the line.

 

[Big Mal]

I would have liked to have seen Hutchison as a second playmaker at 12.


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[I like to watch]

I would have liked to have seen Hutchison as a second playmaker at 12.


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You haven't seen much 7's this year?
To describe Henry as hapless as a ball player would be generous.
his skill set is that of a finisher,it's in his best interests that he plays to his strengths.

 

[Getwithme]

Generally, the players who are part of the Australian 7's program and are under the age of 20 are within our best 30 u20 rugby players. This is evident through performance as well as the fact that those guys are exposed to a more professional environment quicker than others. Is it ideal to have 3 or 4 of your group not playing 15's before a tournament? God No. Was it necessary to bring our best players? Heck yes. I understand your frustrations happy to chat in that it isn't perfect for our preparations yet currently Australian rugby, and particularly the cross over between 'elite development pathways' and club rugby is awful.

There are some vast misconceptions that players who come straight out of school who are 'stars' can perform against those a year or two older. Such time in a colts program allows player to both physically and mentally mature. This means boys who were not part of such prestigious rugby schools or were neglected by their programs have the opportunity to develop over a greater time period and this is where talent shines through. I believe that it is almost a necessity for players from schoolboy age to play at least a full years worth of colts before being selected by their u20's program. This allows us to see a greater amount of talent as we have the opportunity to see more boys as those who are fresh out of school get their chance the following year to stake their claim. Let's look at Semisi Tupou here. The kid is a major talent and this is obvious for us all to see. However, some of his defensive reads were shaky and sometimes had a lack of calmness to his play which forced his own errors. I have no doubts that he will be a star in the future and I think he is one of the best players coming through in the back 3 in his age group but surely a years worth of colts footy could have helped him just be that little bit older, a little bit wiser?

Rugby is the cure to our issues. Playing actual rugby. I know that the u20's groups spent at least 2-3 months undergoing brutal preseason work and while this is necessary for the development and injury prevention, why not firgure out a way to get our boys playing more footy? This is where we learn things. Take for example Hamish Stewart, who's lack of play time has been well documented over the past two months. A major issue for him, much like our current young patch of Australian fly halves, is our ability to control the tempo of the game, be able to take the ball closer to the line before distributing and to kick accurately. Now surely by playing lets say, 4 more games in this period (a conservative estimate) his understanding of tempo continues to improve, he's practiced his in game kick accuracy and can attempt to play the ball closer to the line.

I also believe that no player is ready to be on a Super Rugby level contract in Australia staight out of school. Campbell Magnay, Nick Jooste and Will Eadia (On an EPS) are all good footy players who have a future in the sport. Obviously part of the reasoning was to stop these boys being lost to other codes. Currently the NRL has the lure of u20 contracts (which pay a lot more than anything our youngsters get) but by the end of this season, this is gone. Hopefully this sees us keeping a few more of the Angus Crichton's, Taane Milne's and Tepai Moeroa's who are doing well in the NRL currently. Yet not many can argue the Campbell Magnay has played enough footy to help him develop to where we all know he can go.

Rant over.

 

[sidelineview]

I would have liked to have seen Hutchison as a second playmaker at 12.


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Hutchinson's got speed to burn and should be on the wing imo.

He definitely didn't get the ball in his hands enough but I'm not sure If that was his fault for not looking for the ball and getting more involved or it was the fault of the players inside him, or the fault of the game plan or what.


It's a frustrating waste of a players talents to see them not involved in the game. His speed would have been listed as a major asset for the team pre-tournament.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I would be highly surprised if Cron didn't take the same option next year and pick eligible 7s players who are playing well.
I think McNamara in particular has improved out of sight on the 7s tour this year.

If he does I doubt it will be his preference but i think that this cohort were a pretty exceptional cohort for getting into 7s basically straight out of school

 

[Braveheart81]

If he does I doubt it will be his preference but i think that this cohort were a pretty exceptional cohort for getting into 7s basically straight out of school

Yeah, it definitely depends on who is still under 20 in the 7s program next year.

With so much turnover this year you'd think that there won't be as many new players in the 7s squad so perhaps there won't be any to choose from.

Maybe Dylan Pietsch and Tate McDermott although neither are listed as being current members of the 7s squad. I think Pietsch is eligible next year, no idea about McDermott (also no real idea about their XVs pedigree).

 

[The sage]

In addition to near scrapping of the nrc, I would also axe wa (force - sorry expat saffa's and poms) and act brumbies.

Now before you all say this guy has lost it (who said I had it in the first place) hear me out.

The act club I would make political; can the brumbies and tell the politicians that if you want Super Rugby in Canberra then give us a grant for 10 yrs otherwise can them. In the purest form of state of origin, is the Australian schoolboys championships. It provides us with a fairly good incite into Aust rugby at junior levels. Now all states should still participate in this competition, however how long is it since act or wa won them?? If they start to win them consistently then we can have the force or brumbies back and we'll pay (aru). This then allows the residual three teams to concentrate and compete. This would also get rid of all the deadwood and sudo players currently in Super Rugby. Australian Super Rugby is crap and I wouldn't pay to go (even though I have perpetual tickets). It's not great to watch. I know it's Not great opportunity for young players but then again....

I think Australian rugby has been playing a false game for over a decade (paying for rl players etc); we have been punching above our weight n station and we r getting beaten; time to dumb it down a little and be smart. When we rise again develop smartly and sustainably.

I look where we come from and there were multiple 8,10,12,15,16,17 & 19's teams; some clubs had 2 or 3 teams in each age. Today it stops at 15's with only 1 club in each age. Hasn't been a 17 or 19's comp for 3-4 yrs. (don't worry 5 kick is also shrinking). Maybe it's only here? But Aussie rugby needs to be careful.

And thank god for 7's and woman's rugby or else I reckon we wouldn't exist in 5 yrs given the current structure.


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[Inside Shoulder]

Yeah, it definitely depends on who is still under 20 in the 7s program next year.

With so much turnover this year you'd think that there won't be as many new players in the 7s squad so perhaps there won't be any to choose from.

Maybe Dylan Pietsch and Tate McDermott although neither are listed as being current members of the 7s squad. I think Pietsch is eligible next year, no idea about McDermott (also no real idea about their XVs pedigree).

Dylan Pietsch has a good xvs pedigree i believe

 

[RugbyReg]

McDermott is playing Premier Colts at the moment in Brisbane and playing damn well. He'd be a good shot, without knowing the other halves around.

 

[Getwithme]

McDermott is playing Premier Colts at the moment in Brisbane and playing damn well. He'd be a good shot, without knowing the other halves around.

Has also played minutes for premier grade too

 

[TOCC]

Generally, the players who are part of the Australian 7's program and are under the age of 20 are within our best 30 u20 rugby players. This is evident through performance as well as the fact that those guys are exposed to a more professional environment quicker than others. Is it ideal to have 3 or 4 of your group not playing 15's before a tournament? God No. Was it necessary to bring our best players? Heck yes. I understand your frustrations happy to chat in that it isn't perfect for our preparations yet currently Australian rugby, and particularly the cross over between 'elite development pathways' and club rugby is awful.

There are some vast misconceptions that players who come straight out of school who are 'stars' can perform against those a year or two older. Such time in a colts program allows player to both physically and mentally mature. This means boys who were not part of such prestigious rugby schools or were neglected by their programs have the opportunity to develop over a greater time period and this is where talent shines through. I believe that it is almost a necessity for players from schoolboy age to play at least a full years worth of colts before being selected by their u20's program. This allows us to see a greater amount of talent as we have the opportunity to see more boys as those who are fresh out of school get their chance the following year to stake their claim. Let's look at Semisi Tupou here. The kid is a major talent and this is obvious for us all to see. However, some of his defensive reads were shaky and sometimes had a lack of calmness to his play which forced his own errors. I have no doubts that he will be a star in the future and I think he is one of the best players coming through in the back 3 in his age group but surely a years worth of colts footy could have helped him just be that little bit older, a little bit wiser?

Rugby is the cure to our issues. Playing actual rugby. I know that the u20's groups spent at least 2-3 months undergoing brutal preseason work and while this is necessary for the development and injury prevention, why not firgure out a way to get our boys playing more footy? This is where we learn things. Take for example Hamish Stewart, who's lack of play time has been well documented over the past two months. A major issue for him, much like our current young patch of Australian fly halves, is our ability to control the tempo of the game, be able to take the ball closer to the line before distributing and to kick accurately. Now surely by playing lets say, 4 more games in this period (a conservative estimate) his understanding of tempo continues to improve, he's practiced his in game kick accuracy and can attempt to play the ball closer to the line.

I also believe that no player is ready to be on a Super Rugby level contract in Australia staight out of school. Campbell Magnay, Nick Jooste and Will Eadia (On an EPS) are all good footy players who have a future in the sport. Obviously part of the reasoning was to stop these boys being lost to other codes. Currently the NRL has the lure of u20 contracts (which pay a lot more than anything our youngsters get) but by the end of this season, this is gone. Hopefully this sees us keeping a few more of the Angus Crichton's, Taane Milne's and Tepai Moeroa's who are doing well in the NRL currently. Yet not many can argue the Campbell Magnay has played enough footy to help him develop to where we all know he can go.

Rant over.

Promote this man

 

[Joe King]

Rugby is the cure to our issues. Playing actual rugby. I know that the u20's groups spent at least 2-3 months undergoing brutal preseason work and while this is necessary for the development and injury prevention, why not firgure out a way to get our boys playing more footy? This is where we learn things... Now surely by playing lets say, 4 more games in this period (a conservative estimate) his understanding of tempo continues to improve, he's practiced his in game kick accuracy and can attempt to play the ball closer to the line.

What do people think about putting the Oz u20's team or even the state u20's teams into one of the premier club competitions, maybe not first grade, but at an appropriate level where they will be competitive, but find it tough?

Would this be a way for the team(s) to develop good combinations, etc. in the context of a competition?

It's just an idea from left-field. Not sure if it's completely stupid or not.

 

[Getwithme]

What do people think about putting the Oz u20's team or even the state u20's teams into one of the premier club competitions, maybe not first grade, but at an appropriate level where they will be competitive, but find it tough?

Would this be a way for the team(s) to develop good combinations, etc. in the context of a competition?

It's just an idea from left-field. Not sure if it's completely stupid or not.

I think it might have been mentioned on here before. Obviously it has it's strengths, as you have mentioned, but it does have some weaknesses. Obviously money would be a major issue in relocating all of the squad together but for me it just creates another unnecessary elite pathway which could be fixed by reworking the scheduling so that they play more games (which is what your solution is trying to achieve also). I don't mind it, I just don't know if it's needed and it has the possibility of taking away from our club competitions, which basically are all that is holding Australian Rugby Union together currently

 

[Braveheart81]

What do people think about putting the Oz u20's team or even the state u20's teams into one of the premier club competitions, maybe not first grade, but at an appropriate level where they will be competitive, but find it tough?

Would this be a way for the team(s) to develop good combinations, etc. in the context of a competition?

It's just an idea from left-field. Not sure if it's completely stupid or not.

It would need to be state based because otherwise you would essentially need to make the team professional to relocate them from around the country.

I don't think it works though because you would need a decent sized squad and what happens to the players outside the matchday 23 each week? Do they just not play rugby?

Increasing the length of the Super 20s tournament seems like the natural progression to me.