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2017 Under-20 Competitions including Oceania & World U20s

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amirite

Chilla Wilson (44)
Scotland with an excellent kicking game, Australia with backs distributing to pressure when they needed to carry hard. All in all, probably the right result.

Hopefully if Cron gets a year 2 in we get some returning players who deeply understand what he's trying to achieve because they looked good at times.
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
NZ snuck in a win in final 64-17. Thought it was tonight and forgot to record it, will have to see if there a replay.
 

Silverado

Dick Tooth (41)
NZ snuck in a win in final 64-17. Thought it was tonight and forgot to record it, will have to see if there a replay.
Final on FoxSport 3 at 5.30pm today. The Baby Blacks were awesome. Well worth a look


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Harv

Herbert Moran (7)
Congrats to the team. They played some fine footy and clearly many are great prospects. Though, I think it needs to be said in no uncertain terms, that the overall performance was underwhelming. This group is not alone, they are possibly the best of the last several years of under age squads but they suffered a similar fate and made the same bafflingly stupid errors in game planning, adjustment and execution. The parallels to the Aussie Super Rugby sides and the hideously inadequate Wallabies are stark. These fellas played with great skill at times, undoubted commitment and were obviously dominant in many areas of each game against every opponent. But, let's face it, they played stupid rugby. They pushed wide while on the back foot, played footy in their own quarter too much, kicked aimlessly and failed to focus on easy attacking opportunities such as countering. (We play great in space--like the the Kiwis, but confidence does weird things). They were predictable in tight and were unable to think on their feet.
It's OK to say the individuals will improve -- they will, but it's not good enough, because the slippage against the Kiwis will result in the same rationalisation for our mistakes that results in medocity at the highest level. Developmental pathways are a whole big discussion--I very much lament the continued "exclusive" nature of the sport, but that's a rant for another space.
Suffice to say, there are a bunch of good Australian players and we got to see them in this tournament, but we are stragglers when it comes to a rugby IQ and we are being left behind in a game that is expanding at a wicked place in every other country but ours.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
I don't think you can pile onto our team too much. It was the 5th vs 6th play-off. In the last 10 minutes we decided to have a crack and play some rugby within our own 22. Would we do that in a game that actually meant something? I very much doubt it.

So we decide to live by the sword in a meaningless game, which is a pretty laudable thing to do. In the end we died by it. That happens. Scotland were the better side anyway and deserved the win.

The broad issues, like the Wallabies, came back to basic skills. Kicking, passing and option taking. A desire to play an expansive game without making the hard yards first.

But there is still plenty to like in that side.
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Harv

Herbert Moran (7)
I don't think you can pile onto our team too much. It was the 5th vs 6th play-off. In the last 10 minutes we decided to have a crack and play some rugby within our own 22. Would we do that in a game that actually meant something? I very much doubt it.

So we decide to live by the sword in a meaningless game, which is a pretty laudable thing to do. In the end we died by it. That happens. Scotland were the better side anyway and deserved the win.

The broad issues, like the Wallabies, came back to basic skills. Kicking, passing and option taking. A desire to play an expansive game without making the hard yards first.

But there is still plenty to like in that side.
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Who is piling on? They played, they lost. Honestly, that doesn't matter. It's about the bigger picture, which U-20 footy should be about, They didn't just "have a crack" in a meaningless game. They played that game like every other game in the tourny. Did you watch them against Samoa? Did you see how good they made an ordinary Welsh side look? Did you see how they so predicably gave up the winning penalty shot to England? These are the ills that beset Australian rugby.
Don't disconnect the lack of a process at Under 20 level with the inability of senior Australian teams to win games, because that's a big part of the problem.
Best wishes to Scotland. Great effort. But from an Australian POV, this very good team had a dominant pack througout the tourny, a tireless backrow and a terrific attacking backline. Finsihing sixth when they really were capable of competing is the sort of absurdity that we seem to be getting used to.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Would we do that in a game that actually meant something? I very much doubt it.

I'd say they would.

Why do they do it? Run and hope?

It does matter, as I understand it. It will make Cron's job next year no easier because the next draw is determined by where you finish.
Yep. Drawn again with the No. 1 seed for the following year. New Zealand's pool in 2018.

A losing bonus point or better against the top seed in the pool is usually needed to make the semis.

So let's hope the Aussies are as close a match for NZ next year as they were for England this year.

Hope. It's not a plan.
 

Jerseyslinger

Frank Row (1)
I say send the Aussie 7's players back to sevens. None of them have really performed. The Australian team although at times played some reasonable rugby need some real improvements. Who said Australia was in a crisis! Playing for 5th place and everyone is excited.......
 

Happy to Chat

Nev Cottrell (35)
I say send the Aussie 7's players back to sevens. None of them have really performed. The Australian team although at times played some reasonable rugby need to some real improvements. Who said Australia was in a crisis! Playing for 5th place and everyone is excited...
An exercise of drop-ins that duly failed, I do hope a lesson is learned from this. There were some exiting XV man rugby players that missed out to the opportunists that cruised in on name alone and never proved they deserved their spot on the team. To those that said there is no difference between Sevens and XV's, I do hope you are eating your words! They are and always will be the same as the difference between Union and five kick.


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T

TOCC

Guest
did it really fail, i thought McNamara played well for most of the tournament, and as for Hutchinson i thought he played well when offered the opportunity.. Problem was, that the ball rarely made it past the centres. Simon Kenewell was probably the only 7's player that performed badly IMO.

I think players were selected out of position and Australia really needed a second playmaker at 12, not a ball runner.

10. Stewart
11. Hutchison
12. ?
13. Tuipolotu
14. Perese
15. McNamara
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
An exercise of drop-ins that duly failed, I do hope a lesson is learned from this. There were some exiting XV man rugby players that missed out to the opportunists that cruised in on name alone and never proved they deserved their spot on the team. To those that said there is no difference between Sevens and XV's, I do hope you are eating your words! They are and always will be the same as the difference between Union and five kick.


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Don't think too many said there wasn't a difference. I don't think they should be picked the way they were but I also don't think they were an issue- contrary to my expectation.
I think this was our best looking side for years. It is relevant in a wider sense that they were close to England - they should have the perfect environment producing unbeatable 20s. We're a lot closer to England at this level than in seniors.
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Final on FoxSport 3 at 5.30pm today. The Baby Blacks were awesome. Well worth a look


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Thanks Silverado, so watched the final and really enjoyed it, struck me that in NZ we may have a few good boys coming through, I was very impressed with Enari at 9, Jacobson the captain at 6, Aumua at 2(a bloody tank), all 3 boys that played on the wing (obviously one replacement) were good too. Also very impressed with midfield defence and how organised they seemed to be. Actually the front row looked impressive at scrum time too, so were also well coached.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
We have a few too, the end result will depend on the retention and input.


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They have more plus they don't need to rush them into the ABs and can let them mature in NPC, break them into super slowly and deliberately and surrounded at every franchise by at least one world class player and heaps of near world class players. Play them in close competitive comps where they will learn to play in the clinch.
I have thought for a while that we need to hold this next geration back to give them time to develop rather than throwing them in the deep end and hoping for the best.
 

The sage

Vay Wilson (31)
They have more plus they don't need to rush them into the ABs and can let them mature in NPC, break them into super slowly and deliberately and surrounded at every franchise by at least one world class player and heaps of near world class players. Play them in close competitive comps where they will learn to play in the clinch.
I have thought for a while that we need to hold this next geration back to give them time to develop rather than throwing them in the deep end and hoping for the best.


Very wise words and a large difference between us and particularly the all blacks and England. With our dire financials (aru) all our boys have really is club rugby and they don't even get to play that much.

I am seriously not convinced that the nrc is the answer; too loose, NO defence and a lot of dropped ball. Just crap, teaching bad habits. Maybe I need to give it more time (nrc) but I don't know if our financials will allow it. So it's back to club rugby for me.


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Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
An exercise of drop-ins that duly failed, I do hope a lesson is learned from this. There were some exiting XV man rugby players that missed out to the opportunists that cruised in on name alone and never proved they deserved their spot on the team. To those that said there is no difference between Sevens and XV's, I do hope you are eating your words! They are and always will be the same as the difference between Union and five kick.


I thought McNamara was comfortably in our top few players for the tournament. He was consistently good.

Hutchison was alright but was probably limited in his opportunities. He certainly wasn't poor though.

Kennewell clearly had a disappointing tournament.

Certainly McNamara and Hutchison performed better than the guys in the squad who could play those positions who appeared on the bench or were outside the matchday 23.

I would be highly surprised if Cron didn't take the same option next year and pick eligible 7s players who are playing well.

I think McNamara in particular has improved out of sight on the 7s tour this year.
 
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