2015 IRB Junior Rugby World Cup - Italy

[Braveheart81]

Why exclude 2014 graduates? Is it because:

I think Hugh's rationale is that if they only finish school this year and didn't make the Australian schoolboys squad, they're unlikely to make the JWC squad next year.

Of course some of them might make the NSW team for the national champs so they'd have a shot but they've certainly got to move a long way up the pecking order to get into the JWC squad.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^^
The 2014 graduates were excluded from the list from the 2013 National Champs and Aust Schoolboys players because I wanted to portray a picture of the "Born in 1995" cohort as they have stumbled along the "Pathway to Gold" from Under 16's (National U16 Champs - 3 teams from NSW) to Under 18's (National Schoolboys - 2 NSW teams with some in Combined States) to being ready for Under 20's Selection (National Championships with 1 NSW Team).

Without being too disrespectful to the 6 boys listed, (just realised I overlooked Andrew Vatuvei previously in the "italics") they have just finished school as 18 year old boys. They are jockeying for a place at the table against men who are a year older in terms of age and life experiences, and these have been in Colts academy programmes for most of that time hardening their young bodies. Vatuvei and Craig have spent time in Colts programmes as 17 turning 18 year olds in addition to their School work demands. The others have remained in the AAGPS, ISA and CAS schoolboy framework. Vatuvei has played 10 regular season games for Parramatta Colts 1 this year, and Craig managed to start 1 Colts 1, 2 Colts 2 and 1 Colts 3 regular season games for the Woodies. By comparison, some of the young men listed have either played the entire season in Colts 1 with occasional Grade cameos, or they have been a regularly starter in Grade games.

I've been wrong many times before, but IMHO as talented as these lads are, they will struggle to progress too far this year, as Rappy zeros in on his final squad. They need to get continued exposure to top level training to be "ready" for 2016 U20's when it is more naturally their "turn", and it makes sense that they are involved in the selection process at this early stage.

Here is an example of their competition (off the top of my head) that the 2014 Aust Schoolboys from NSW are going to need to be selected over to get a gig for National U20 champs:
Hooker: Folau, Koutsoukis, Wilkinson, Paenga- Amosa
Prop: Sandell, Satui, Faitotoa, Gibbon, McLean, Orr, Hooper (Vuni has an even chance of remaining in the squad).
Lock: Hanigan, Anderson, Williams, Cannell, Kellaway
Loose Forward: McCalman, Dunbar, Warren-Vosayaco, Croke, Kamp
Halfback: Kennedy, Short, Whicker, Davis
Flyhalf: Tulloch, Deegan, Clancy
Centre: Abrahams, Newsome, Stoltz, Davies, Tabuatamata

IMHO, Harry Jones missed out last year due to defensive issues. It is hard to be too critical of his attack, but issues with his defence were evident during the televised Shute Shield matches he played in and the NRC games. The fact that a young man was playing at such a high level in their first year out of high school confirms the talent that he does have. If this is developed correctly, he will have a long career ahead of him at high levels on the rugby field. There is plenty of time for him to overcome his defensive weaknesses if he applies himself diligently with the right coaching and mentoring. Remember he has another tilt at U20's in 2015, being with his "natural" cohort.

 

[Sideline Eye]

^^^^
The 2014 graduates were excluded from the list from the 2013 National Champs and Aust Schoolboys lists because...

Hugh, cheers mate. All makes good sense.

I've been wrong many times before,

Not often, guru Hugh

Hooker: Folau, Koutsoukis, Wilkinson, Paenga-Amosa

I thought Brandon Paenga-Amosa played 6 or 7 as a schoolboy? Has he changed position. Also, presume you mean Folau Fainga'a, above?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Brandon P-A was a loosie when at School but he has bulked up a bit since leaving school, and he spent much of this season playing at 2 for the Hobbits. Not sure whether that is because he sees his future with the fatties in the front row, or because the Hobbits have an oversupply of loosies and undersupply of hookers.

Anyhow, in games I saw this year he played with a 2 on his back, and he looked to go OK there. He seems to have a bit of Hugh Roach about him. It will be interesting where he eventually ends up.

With his name consisting of two well known rugby surnames, I often get Folau Fainga'a mixed up with Fainga'a Folau, but I meant to refer to the BuildCorp Hooker who was in the NSW U20's in 2014.

Sorry @Newbie for getting FF (Folau Fainga'a)'s name mixed up. You did warn us of his talent many moons ago, and not too many paid much attention to you back then.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

NZRU have appointed their new U20 coaches:

"Canterbury's Scott Robertson has been appointed head coach after serving alongside newly appointed Hurricanes coach Chris Boyd this year, when the team lost in the semi-finals of their World Cup, eventually won by England.

"Former All Blacks team-mates Leon MacDonald, assistant coach at Tasman, and Tana Umaga, head coach of Counties Manukau, join Robertson ahead of the World Cup in Italy next year."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/63204614/Former-All-Blacks-to-take-charge-of-under-20s

 

[rugbywatch]

From Queensland you can expect these boys to feature in the Australian 20s squad:

Campbell Magnay (NRC & Reds)
Duncan Paia'aua (Reds)
Lolo Fakaosilea (Aus 20s, NRC, Reds EPS)
Michael Gunn (NRC)
Adam Korczyk (NRC)
Brad Wilkin (NRC)
James Tuttle (NRC)

 

[RugbyReg]

Tongan Thor?

 

[TOCC]

What 'residency' qualification requirements are there for the U20's?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ Not a lot.

Plenty of Australian residents of dual citizenship (Aust and a PI) have represented both countries at Under 20 level, typically the PI as a 18 turning 19 year old, and then Australia as a 19 turning 20 year old. An equal amount will end up playing for the PI country if they don't get selected for the Aust Squad.

Cameron Skelton would be a case in point. As an 18 turning 19 year old, he represented NSW U20 last year but was not selected for Aust U20's. He ended up at the Jnr RWC in the Samoa Team. He has since picked up some sort of development contract with the Chiefs in NZ, and I would anticipate he will show up at next years Jnr RWC with either Samoa or NZ.

It would be great to see how Taniela Toupu goes against his peer group (albeit that many will be 1 year older) if he gets in the Reds U20, and the Aust U20's. That would either confirm that the hype was spot on, or point out aspects of his game that need some polishing.

 

[Lee Grant]

^^^ Not a lot.

Plenty of Australian residents of dual citizenship (Aust and a PI) have represented both countries at Under 20 level, typically the PI as a 18 turning 19 year old, and then Australia as a 19 turning 20 year old. An equal amount will end up playing for the PI country if they don't get selected for the Aust Squad.

Cameron Skelton would be a case in point.

Also brother Willie.

A lot of ethnic Islander lads from NZ and Oz play Under 20s for their PI country as Under 19s, and for NZ or Oz as Under 20s.

If they haven't been selected for Oz or NZ it gives them exposure to the competition a year earlier, which serves their rugby well, which benefits the team they play for in the second year. It also helps the PI nation at the Under 20 comp in their first year.

It may also benefit the PI nation if the boys decide to play for them as senior players a year or two earlier than they otherwise would (and not hang around so long for Oz or NZ selection) because of the good experience they had in Under 20s with them.

Watch out for Victorian LHP Fereti Sa'aga (Samoa U 20s) next year, but it looks like the Kiwis have nabbed Cam Skelton, as HJ indicates.
.

 

[Lee Grant]

From Queensland you can expect these boys to feature in the Australian 20s squad:

Campbell Magnay (NRC & Reds)
Lolo Fakaosilea (Aus 20s, NRC, Reds EPS)
Michael Gunn (NRC)
Adam Korczyk (NRC)
Brad Wilkin (NRC)
James Tuttle (NRC)

Top players these. The use of such youngsters is another benefit of the NRC.

Adrian Thompson and his ARU colleagues would have had a good look at all these lads in the NRC and if they played OK they would have got a big tick for the 2015 Aussie Under 20 team.

They would have known about all these lads since their last two or three years at school, and would have tracked them in their first year after school, but they wouldn't necessarily know how they would play as maturing Under 19s against senior players.

6N countries get to judge their players for final selection in the 6N Under 20 comp a few months before the JWC.

Aussies can't do that but at least they had a National Under 20 championship [NUC] a few months before the JWC this year. And with the NRC now they can have an even earlier view of some candidates as Under 19s in a senior tournament nine months or so before the JWC, and even the odd Under 18 player—especially in Queensland where many leave school as Under 17s.

The NRC offers a better benchmark than the NUC does. It's a pity that more Under 19s can't be engaged in it, but it's understandable why they aren't.

A lot of us in the last few years bemoaned the absence of an NRC because the natural add-on to it was for each team to have an Under 19 competition side, eventually.

We are a long way from that, if it ever happens, but a second-best thing would be to require each NRC squad to enlist a certain number of Under 19 players for their training sessions during the term of the NRC.
.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Here's a bit of a stab at the Qld U20 cohort for 2015:

2013 Australian U20
Lolo FAKAOSILEA
Conrad QUICK
Jonah PLACID (will probably play for Vic U20/Southern States U20)

2013 Qld U20 (Full squad because I'm not sure who is eligible to return in 2015)
Prop
Markus VANZATI Souths
Aaron PLEASH University of Queensland
Tom MOLONEY Brothers
Ben TARR Souths
Dylan SIKAMETI GPS

Hooker
Alifeleti KAITU'U Souths
Francois POSTAL Brothers

Lock
Terrin WALLS Brothers
Sam FATTAL Easts
Jack PAYNE Brothers

Backrow
Adam KORCZYK University of Queensland
Lolo FAKAOSILEA Sunnybank
Joe WRAMPLING Sunnybank
David FINDLAY-HENAWAY Souths
Michael GUNN Easts
Digger McMILLIAN Bond University

Halfback
Scott GALE (Captain) University of Queensland
Adam DECK Easts
James TUTTLE GPS

Flyhalf
Sam GREENE Brothers
Patrick JAMES Brothers

Centres
Levi AUMUA GPS
Giles BEVERIDGE Brothers
Nigel TANUVASA Souths

Outside Backs
Gareth KALELL University of Queensland
Isaiah MOSESE Brothers
Tom BANKS University of Queensland
Jonah PLACID Easts


Pretty sure that these will be back for 2015 Reds U20's:
Dylan SIKAMETI GPS
Adam KORCZYK University of Queensland
Lolo FAKAOSILEA Sunnybank
Michael GUNN Easts
Digger McMILLIAN Bond University
Sam GREENE Brothers
Aaron PLEASH University of Queensland
James TUTTLE GPS

Others not in Qld U20 2014 to look out for in Qld U20 2015:
Alex MAFI (Bond)
Duncan PAAI'AUA (ex Broncos)
Brad WILKIN (Easts) (injured in 2014)
Campbell MAGNAY (GPS)
Harley FOX (Aust Schoolboys 2014)
Joey FITTOCK (Aust Schoolboys 2014)
Izaia PERESE (Aust Schoolboys 2014)
Conrad QUICK (Aust U20 2014)




The "born in 1995" Cohort as u16's at 2011 National Under 16 Championships.
QLD RED
Name - School - Club
Daniel Anae Nudgee College
Wilson Bennett St Edmund's College
Sam Clifton TSS
Brannagh Corcoran Iona College
Mikey Dyring BBC Ashgrove GPS
Netinili Fielea TSS
Henry Fitzgerald Nudgee College
Rory Humphries St Edmund's College
Pat Ivey TGS
Adam Korzyck BSHS Taylor Bridge
Alex Mafi Nudgee College (1996)
Andrew Manu St Edmund's College
Mack Mason Downlands College
Douglas McMillan ACGS
Duncan Paai'aua Emmaus College
Jonah Placid TGS
Aaron Pleash IGS
Phillip Potgieter TGS
Jayden Rodwell Nudgee College
Dylan Sikimeti Nudgee College
Junior Taefu Sunnybank SHS
Jack Tuttle Nudgee College
Brad Wilkin Iona College Wynnum Bugs

QLD WHITE
Name - School - Club
Stuart Bougoure TGS Goondiwindi
Riley Brennan Nudgee College
James Dalgleash GT Taylor Bridge
Nic Fordyce Nudgee College
Adam Gauder TSS
Michael Gunn ACGS Easts
Evander Guttenbiel Keebra Park SHS
Luke Harlow GT Easts
Landon Hayes IGS
Braedon Hood BBC Wests
Robert Lawless BBC
Paulo Leleisiuao Nudgee College
Dimitri Loukaras BSHS Taylor Bridge
Harry Masters Sunshine Coast Grammar Sunshine Coast Grammar
Connor Mulheron IGS
Daniel Preen IGS
Conrad Quick Cairns SHS
Lachlan Roe St Edmund's College
Benroy Sala BSHS
Mitch Third TSS Gold Coast Eagles
Brayden Tourpie Villanova College
James Tuttle Nudgee College
Alex West ACGS Easts

Because many Qld players finish School as 17 year olds (last eligible for National Schoolboys Tournament in 2012) it is not cut and dry to review the 2013 Qld I and Qld II squad lists from National Schoolboys to see how the the "Born in 1995" progressed at U18 Schoolboy level for State or Australian Schoolboys/Schoolboys A.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Pool A: England, France, Wales, Japan
Pool B: South Africa, Australia, Samoa, Italy
Pool C: New Zealand, Ireland, Scotland, Argentina

Downloadable match & broadcasting schedule here:

http://pulse-static-files.s3.amazon...7ce7c163cf1/U20_Match_Schedule_Italy_2015.pdf

 

[Learned One]

(By the way, how the heck did Harry Jones miss out on Under 20s last year? He was a standout at the National Championships at Riverview last year)

I'm sure he was, playing behind a very dominant NSW forward pack.
If there was a hard luck story from last year's Aussie U 20 team, it had to be Henry Clunies-Ross. He played extremely well at the U20 championships in Canberra , went on to win Rookie of the Year in Shute Shield yet still couldn't make the team .

 

[Hans]

Whilst both are quality, the three boys starting in the back 3 for the Aus 20's are all now contracted. More depth to our swollen pools of backs talent! Kellaway at the Tahs, Pacid at the Rebels & Lacy at the Force!

Keep in mind last years 20's had 2 contracted super players riding the pine for much of the tournament in the centres, and both starting centres did a sterling job from memory!

Would appear being a good back 3 player isn't enough any more. Does anyone have any word on any trials taking place for the various state U20's? Getting bored with all of this non rugby related sport on TV (don't have fox so no 7's for me!)

 

[Lee Grant]

I see that Adrian Thompson has been re-appointed as the Aussie Under 20s head coach.

People may ask why he is still in charge when his team improved from just 7th to 5th this year, but folks should realise that the playing field is not as level as it was a few years ago when our results were better.

Even the Kiwis (4th to 3rd), and the SH team with the best junior programme south of the equator, South Africa (3rd to 2nd), are finding it hard to compete against England with its fully professional set-up.

France also has an inherent advantage over most southern teams.

Ireland (8th to 4th), doesn't have the benefits of the England programme but it does have the advantage of playing in a 6N Under 20s tournament a few months before the JWC. Notwithstanding that, they were the team that fought most above their weight in NZ in 2014.

Having watched the Aussie Under 20 teams train and play in warm-up games over the years, and knowing a bit about the alternatives, I think that the the 2015 team will do better under Thompson that anybody else by some margin.

It won't be easy being in the same pool as South Africa, but at least they are playing them last and will have lead up games against Samoa and Italy to prepare for them.
.

 

[qwerty51]

No one should question him, the improvement is significant but more important is the reattainment of Cam Blades who should replace Andrew at the Wallabies.

 

[Sideline Eye]

Australian Under 20s 2015 coaching team announced

Adrian Thompson will return for his third year of coaching the Australian Under 20s side in 2015 as the team prepares for the World Rugby Under 20 Championship to be held in Parma, Italy in June next year.

Also returning alongside Thompson will be his assistant coaches, Shane Arnold and Cam Blades as well as former NSW Waratahs and Wallabies Assistant Coach, Alan Gaffney who will be acting as a technical advisor.

Both Arnold and Blades have previously coached for Premier clubs in Brisbane and Sydney respectively and had coaching experience in the inaugural Buildcorp National Rugby Championship in 2014.

The National Under 20s coaching staff will look to bring together the best emerging Rugby talent in Australia as a part of the ARU’s Pathway to Gold program, which is focused on creating the next generation of Qantas Wallabies and Qantas Australian Sevens stars.

http://www.rugby.com.au/News/NewsAr...-UNDER-20s-2015-COACHING-STAFF-CONFIRMED.aspx

 

[Sideline Eye]

Copied from the "Waratahs 2015" thread:

Was at Tahs training today. Willie Skelton must be keen - he's already fronted up. The other Wallabies won't get back until the New Year.

The main team was training with the Under 20s for part of today and Nathan Grey gave the young-uns no slack.

Lee, how were the NSW Under 20s going against the big boys? Been a bit quiet on the Junior Rugby World Cup thread on that front. I believe they are having an internal trial on Thursday before there's a pre-Christmas cull to get closer to the final squad for the March comp in Canberra.

Probably should move this conversation to that thread, but any interesting players, surprise attendees, standouts, etc, from the hit out today?

 

[Sideline Eye]

Copied from the "Waratahs 2015" thread:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There were only about 25 U20s there today; so obviously there were a lot missing. They had a lot more there last year at this time. It's hard to comment on who was there or not there without having a list to tick people off.

Cheika came over to me today and said G'day - I was going to ask him what the Under 20 trial programme was going to be early next year but he was called away and I didn't get a chance to.

Hard to say who was shining. It wasn't a hit-out as such: they were just doing training drills.

But, as you say - better to talk about that on the 2015 U20 thread.
.