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2012 Rugby Championship Round 6 Game 2 Argentina vs Australia - 6 Oct

Who will win 2012 Rugby Championship Round 6 Game 2 between ARG and AUS?

  • The Men In Gold – Australia

    Votes: 21 33.3%
  • Los Pumas – Argentina

    Votes: 27 42.9%
  • Team Rehab

    Votes: 13 20.6%
  • Draw - Rugby is the Winner

    Votes: 2 3.2%

  • Total voters
    63
  • Poll closed .
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fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I can't see how AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has earned instant selection. The biggest disappointment of Taps last night was that he 'did a AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'. Ashley Cooper hogs the ball so much the move is named after him!

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) isn't even first choice for the Tahs at 13, what makes him the automatic first choice for the wallabies.

I want the wallabies to move forward, not backwards. We know AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) limitations, we know Horne's limitations, we need to find out more about Tapaui's.

I thought Taps did pretty well at times. He showed a bit on attack
 
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What2040

Guest
don't think it was overstaed at all - it was a big F--K up that potentially could have lost a game and if that was the case then we would have come last in the RC
 

The Red Baron

Chilla Wilson (44)
So much talk of Taps bombing a try when Beales air swing attempting a grubber with an overlap goes unmentioned. By the time Taps was around his opposite (a feat in itself for a wob 13) there wasn't enough space for the two players on the line and one could have come in. Where improvement is needed is not all of a sudden getting impatient but just taking the ball to ground and building the next phase. Any missed half chance at the moment sees the players (and fans?) lose focus and invariably turn the ball over at that point or on next phase.

And who else thinks the whole bombing a try call by commentators is way overstated generally?

I think you are right about the impatience aspect. However, in regards to Taps 'bombing the try', I have to differ. From my initial viewing, I am of the opinion that Taps had run the outside guys out of space. I thought the reason Harris didn't cut back in was that he was expecting the ball much earlier.

I was just pondering over the qualities of Beale at flyhalf though. I tend to agree with Jiggles to an extent, he did show some uncertainty at times. In relation to the set move try, I thought he played on the conceptions of what the opposition expected him to do.

I once read somewhere that Dan Carter is so dangerous because he creates doubt in the opposition. Rather than his outside men being uncertain of his intentions, a Wallaby trait in recent times, they know exactly what he will be doing at all times. How he creates doubt in the opposition goes something like:

He will shovel the ball on for a few phases. Lets say that Carter gets the ball 6 times, and passes everytime. On the 7th occasion, he will take on the line. He will take on the line as he has observed the opposition defence slide outwards, as they think he will simply pass the ball again. He spots the gap through the patterns he has created, and exploits it. Then the opposition has to be mindful that he could then either pass or run. He has created uncertainty in defensive patterns. Lets say that he then settles back into passing mode. After about 4 possessions, rather than running, he pops a deft kick in behind the defensive line to Cory Jane. The phase after, he runs again at the line.

By this stage you would imagine that he has the opposition defence at sixes and sevens. They have no idea what he going to do. His runners constantly work off of him, as they know what he will always do. He will always measure and communicate these options.

The set play move leading to the Diggers try was a result of something similar. Diggers had taken the ball up in contact all night. Beale didn't have much to work on, but had either gone quite wide or looked for a single runner up until that point. Where he created doubt was in the Taps/McCabe line. The two inside men fully thought that Taps was the advantage line runner, as that was what the Wallabies had been dishing up most of the night. McCabe on the outside was in order to confuse the outside men, who would slide out to cover McCabe, Cummins and Harris. Therefore, with the inside men committed by Taps (and Beale through taking on the line) and the outside men worrying about McCabe and Co. Diggers slotted through the gap unmolested for the try.

Beale's best quality is that he constantly keeps the opposition in 2 defensive minds. What he needs to work on is keeping his boys in the loop, so they know his intention and are able to provide options. Ways to go, but there is evidence that he really working on it.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
So much talk of Taps bombing a try when Beales air swing attempting a grubber with an overlap goes unmentioned. By the time Taps was around his opposite (a feat in itself for a wob 13) there wasn't enough space for the two players on the line and one could have come in. Where improvement is needed is not all of a sudden getting impatient but just taking the ball to ground and building the next phase. Any missed half chance at the moment sees the players (and fans?) lose focus and invariably turn the ball over at that point or on next phase.

And who else thinks the whole bombing a try call by commentators is way overstated generally?

The Pumas won a penalty from the ruck after Taps was tackled after doing exactly what McCabe was sent off for in the last game between the sides - interfering with the halfback. The irony of this was in this game McCabe was the halfback that they took out!

Rugby rules are a bit broken.
 
R

randalf8

Guest
Attempting to equate Tapuai's tryline effort with Beale's miscue on the grubber is really taking the bullshit to a new level.

Regardless, raising Tapuai's error(s) is as much in response to the swarm of over-the-top praise he appears to be receiving from people that had (I think) decided he was the future at 12 or 13 before the match had even started.

Beale was far from perfect. Those stutter steps fool no one.
 
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randalf8

Guest
Holding the ball up like Beale did was pretty good. In all I thought his performance was improved this week, but there were still a few little kinks in his game I didn't like. Namely the stutter step at the line, it seems to me he is not sure what to do i.e. 'do I hit a runner or take on the line or what?' To be fair I am going to put that on Deans and a lack of structure though. If the team had some phase structure and runners knew their role, coming from depth with pace, then I think Beale would be much more decisive.

Pretty much how I saw it.
 

The Red Baron

Chilla Wilson (44)
Attempting to equate Tapuai's tryline effort with Beale's miscue on the grubber is really taking the bullshit to a new level.

Regardless, raising Tapuai's error(s) is as much in response to the swarm of over-the-top praise he appears to be receiving from people that had (I think) decided he was the future at 12 or 13 before the match had even started.

Beale was far from perfect. Those stutter steps fool no one.

Please show me where pre-game praise for Taps has been 'over-the top'? I have seen people, including myself, rate Taps. I do not agree with this as being considered over-the-top. And in what way is it considered 'over-the-top'? what is your qualifying criteria?

I suspect that your criticism has less to do with the player than the people who support him. As I pointed out in an earlier post, Tap's game last night was no worse than anyone else who had played 13 for the Wallabies in recent times. He didn't light the world on fire, but he was quite solid. Exactly what I wanted and expected for his run on debut.
 
R

randalf8

Guest
Please show me where pre-game praise for Taps has been 'over-the top'? I have seen people, including myself, rate Taps. I do not agree with this as being considered over-the-top. And in what way is it considered 'over-the-top'? what is your qualifying criteria?

I didn't say I had seen any (which isn't to say I haven't).
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
Attempting to equate Tapuai's tryline effort with Beale's miscue on the grubber is really taking the bullshit to a new level.

Regardless, raising Tapuai's error(s) is as much in response to the swarm of over-the-top praise he appears to be receiving from people that had (I think) decided he was the future at 12 or 13 before the match had even started.

Beale was far from perfect. Those stutter steps fool no one.

My only issue with the criticism is that a lot of it seems to be in the context of how much he was supposedly talked up. As usual the middle ground seems to be lost in the rhetoric but criticising a player to prove how wrong QLD fanboys are is petty. He wasn't perfect, no one was, just saying he didn't seem to do any worse than many who aren't being criticised.

How off was Digby? How many penalties can TPN give away in a game?
 

Torn Hammy

Johnnie Wallace (23)
The issue with Taps bombing the try is that setting up the man outside is the 'bread and butter ' of the traditional outside centre.

I have observed that in the grassroots of rugby that many coaches have the tendency to play hard running centres rather than those kids with good hands who have the ability to set up their outside man. One of the reasons for this is that fast, young islander kids are so effective running in the centres where they are given a bit of space. But the problem is that they are there for their running and not for their passing skills and in many youth teams the tactics revolve around getting these big blokes the ball.

These kids are impressive and make all the rep squads. But at a certain point the size advantage that these kids have is diminished and they are required to do more than just run, so they are coached to develop their passing game, but deep down you can see that they are at heart and at the crucial moments, just runners.The kids that match these guys have to be tough buggers too, so what we end up with is a pool of centres who are tough defenders and hard runners with very poor handling skills. I give you AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), McCabe, Taps, Carter, Apo, CFN and Cummins.

It is so important that the 13 can convert the situation that Taps was in this morning as they are rare try scoring and game breaking moments, particularly when you think about the quality of our back three. In the Shute Shield GF at the 65th minute Cummins had a two on one situation 10 metres from the line but went on his own, only to be tackled, bomb the try and then lose the ball with which SUni scored shortly afterwards. This was a 14 point turnaround and Cummins' team only lost by only 1 point!

Haven't seen a lot of Taps, but for me he failed the most important test for an outside centre.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
I can't see how AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has earned instant selection. The biggest disappointment of Taps last night was that he 'did a AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'. Ashley Cooper hogs the ball so much the move is named after him!

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) isn't even first choice for the Tahs at 13, what makes him the automatic first choice for the wallabies.

I want the wallabies to move forward, not backwards. We know AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) limitations, we know Horne's limitations, we need to find out more about Tapaui's.

He has been pretty good the whole RC, dare I say our best/most consistent back. I think this deserves some loyalty, dare I say like the loyalty Shipperley deserved.

Taps hasn't played the house down, not sure he is ready for the ABs just yet. And as far as reasons for selection go, 'let's find out more about his limitations' isn't exactly up there.
.
 

The Red Baron

Chilla Wilson (44)
The issue with Taps bombing the try is that setting up the man outside is the 'bread and butter ' of the traditional outside centre.

I have observed that in the grassroots of rugby that many coaches have the tendency to play hard running centres rather than those kids with good hands who have the ability to set up their outside man. One of the reasons for this is that fast, young islander kids are so effective running in the centres where they are given a bit of space. But the problem is that they are there for their running and not for their passing skills and in many youth teams the tactics revolve around getting these big blokes the ball.

These kids are impressive and make all the rep squads. But at a certain point the size advantage that these kids have is diminished and they are required to do more than just run, so they are coached to develop their passing game, but deep down you can see that they are at heart and at the crucial moments, just runners.The kids that match these guys have to be tough buggers too, so what we end up with is a pool of centres who are tough defenders and hard runners with very poor handling skills. I give you AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), McCabe, Taps, Carter, Apo, CFN and Cummins.

It is so important that the 13 can convert the situation that Taps was in this morning as they are rare try scoring and game breaking moments, particularly when you think about the quality of our back three. In the Shute Shield GF at the 65th minute Cummins had a two on one situation 10 metres from the line but went on his own, only to be tackled, bomb the try and then lose the ball with which SUni scored shortly afterwards. This was a 14 point turnaround and Cummins' team only lost by only 1 point!

Haven't seen a lot of Taps, but for me he failed the most important test for an outside centre.

That is a fair enough call. However, the reason I and others (I suspect) rate Taps is because he isn't the traditional 'bash it up' style of centre. He generally has a good ball playing aspect of his play, and will look to set up his outside man. I suppose this is why he is considered a better 12 than 13. He has an all round skill set.

Doesn't excuse the bombed try, I think you are quite correct in that regard. A good 13 is able to work with his outside men to put them into space. They are the finishers after all. I just don't think that one passage of play should define the player type.

Anyway, I will desist from this argument. Maybe it is the heat, or maybe it is my home brew. Lets talk home brew! :)
 
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