2012 Rugby Championship Round 4 Game 2 Australia vs Argentina - 15 Sep

[H...]

One of the few highlights of saturday was the direct running 12 who actually crosses the gain line. Why people want to return to the ball-playing-12 bullshit that we had for most of last decade (a period in which we won nothing at all) is beyond me. The ABs don't have a ball player at 12 and neither do the Boks. All the 12 needs to do is get over the line with the ball and tackle. We have enough people capable of generally useless fancy shit.

 

[Braveheart81]

McCabe was great.

When you boil it down, we cocked up a couple of tries, let in two tries with some silly errors. The second try, Barnes kick was too deep, no one but Barnes chased and our follow up defence was terrible. The player stepped on the line so it shouldn't have been a try anyway.

Our execution was off but on the whole I still think things are going in the right direction. I'd far prefer to be trying to fix up silly errors than having to face up to our scrum getting demolished and our forward pack getting completely outmuscled. The biggest risk against Argentina was our forward pack getting dominated and it just didn't happen.

 

[Scott Allen]

Fair point Lee. Do you think that means we shouldn't opt for Timani and Samo (especially having both of them in the same 15)?

There was one lineout in particular which we lost because even though TPN threw the ball at the right height, it went straight throw Samo's hands as he was still on the way up. While Higgers might not bring the same work-rate around the park as Samo does, he has to be one of the quickest line out jumpers going around. But I suppose you could swap Dennis with Higgers for a game if you wanted that quick front man jumper?

I had a detailed look at that particular lineout this morning when doing a review.

The problem was poor timing from TPN. Thrown to the front it should have been thrown once the jumper had left the ground (jump-throw) but TPN threw it when Samo was still on the ground.

Didn't go through Samo's hands because it had already passed him by the time he got up. Was a reasonable lift and a good jump.

 

[Braveheart81]

I had to rewind that one and watch it through again to see what went wrong.

When I watched it live it did look like the ball went straight through Samo's hands, but watching it again a bit slower, it was clear that the throw passed over Samo just before his hands got to the catching height.

Regardless, I think TPN's lineout throwing is so far improved on where it was a couple of years ago. It is certainly no longer a liability which it once was.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Harris has not.

He's proved he has the temperament: that's more than QC (Quade Cooper) has proved - in fact its the opposite of what QC (Quade Cooper) has proved.

Forget the Samo, so created three opportunities, I wish I was so shit

What were the others?
Sharpe - they'd run out of ideas and it was a hail mary play that damned near came off. It was a good pass.
Dont be so quick to pat yourself on the back re the Samo one: have a look at it on the fox highlights reel: its a complete misread by QC (Quade Cooper) - bad pass and fails to see what's happening.
Test it this way: what would Dan Carter have done? he would have passed to Fat Cat who would have passed to Samo who couldn't have butchered it from there.
McCabe's try was down to McCabe.
I wouldn't be banging on about this if i saw any hint that QC (Quade Cooper) ever learns from his mistakes.

 

[barbarian]

He's proved he has the temperament

When?
.

 

[fatprop]

He's proved he has the temperament: that's more than QC (Quade Cooper) has proved - in fact its the opposite of what QC (Quade Cooper) has proved.


What were the others?
Sharpe - they'd run out of ideas and it was a hail mary play that damned near came off. It was a good pass.
Dont be so quick to pat yourself on the back re the Samo one: have a look at it on the fox highlights reel: its a complete misread by QC (Quade Cooper) - bad pass and fails to see what's happening.
Test it this way: what would Dan Carter have done? he would have passed to Fat Cat who would have passed to Samo who couldn't have butchered it from there.
McCabe's try was down to McCabe.
I wouldn't be banging on about this if i saw any hint that QC (Quade Cooper) ever learns from his mistakes.

Bullocks, mate
Samos? Wasn't the best, sure but it nearly worked, in retrospect it would be done better
The Sharpe, good pass to a unit on a good line - exactly as required
McCabe, another good pass to a unit on a good line - exactly as required

You can whinge and moan about Coopers obvious weaknesses, but it is clear churlishness to ignore his good bits as well.

 

[Braveheart81]

When?
.

I assume it's in reference to his pressure penalty kick to win against Wales.

 

[barbarian]

I assume it's in reference to his pressure penalty kick to win against Wales.

If he is, I think it is a bit much to suggest that one moment means he has the temperament to handle test match intensity against top-tier opponents in the 10 jersey.
.

 

[fatprop]

If he is, I think it is a bit much to suggest that one moment means he has the temperament to handle test match intensity against top-tier opponents in the 10 jersey.
.

If we could roll him out as the designated kicker - sure

 

[TOCC]

For those who are suggesting that our lineout went well on the weekend... What about the implications of failing to throw to a full line-out on our own ball which seems to be a by-product of not having a overly successful(potentially confident) line-out to start with.

I raised this earlier, but against both RSA and Argentina the Wallabies went with short line-outs and stacked the back-line with forwards.. Naturally the opposition did the same thus negating any potential 1v1 advantage Wallaby backs had over their counterparts. In most cases we had a forward run the ball off the 5/8 and the piggies come around and do a couple of pick and drives and that was about the summary of it..

There aren't too many times that a back-line will receive the ball with the opposition 10m behind the advantage line and the opposition forwards all compressed on one side of the field.. But as a team the Wallabies seem to be squandering that opportunity.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

One of the few highlights of saturday was the direct running 12 who actually crosses the gain line. Why people want to return to the ball-playing-12 bullshit that we had for most of last decade (a period in which we won nothing at all) is beyond me. The ABs don't have a ball player at 12 and neither do the Boks. All the 12 needs to do is get over the line with the ball and tackle. We have enough people capable of generally useless fancy shit.

The reason why Nonu is consistently picked these days is because he's learned how to pass the ball. The big knock against him has always been that he's too greedy and doesn't look for the guys outside him. He's fixed that and now he's one of the best 12's in the world.

I've maintained since, well, forever that you need a balance in the centres: a distributor and a crasher. With McCabe we have the crasher, who has an improving passing game and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) who's also a bit of a crasher and rarely passes. I think that lacks balance myself, but it wasn't a train wreck on the weekend. That means it's worth persisting with for the moment.

As for the Boks, don't make me laugh mate. Their attack is worse than ours.

 

[Braveheart81]

For those who are suggesting that our lineout went well on the weekend. What about the implications of failing to throw to a full line-out on our own ball which seems to be a by-product of not having a overly successful(potentially confident) line-out to start with.

I raised this earlier, but against both RSA and Argentina the Wallabies went with short line-outs and stacked the back-line with forwards.. Naturally the opposition did the same thus negating any potential 1v1 advantage Wallaby backs had over their counterparts. In most cases we had a forward run the ball off the 5/8 and the piggies come around and do a couple of pick and drives and that was about the summary of it..

There aren't too many times that a back-line will receive the ball with the opposition 10m behind the advantage line and the opposition forwards all compressed on one side of the field.. But as a team the Wallabies seem to be squandering that opportunity.

This seems to be a pretty common thing in international rugby now.

The defensive team often commits less in the lineout so they have more defenders in the backline and sometimes the attacking team will want a crash baller in the midfield (Timani has been used in this position a lot).

Using all the forwards in the lineout seems more of a tactic for a rolling maul than to create one on one situations in the backline.

Scrums seem to be the main time for set moves in the backline now.

 

[H...]

Nonu was the first choice AB 12 for a long time and on successful teams prior to him developing him these new passing skills you refer to. Is it good that he has improved in that area? Sure. Is there any evidence that we should select a ball-passer in place of someone that can get across the line? Hardly.

I'd actually put O'Connor at 13 since he has a decent in-and-away and he likes running around in some space.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If he is, I think it is a bit much to suggest that one moment means he has the temperament to handle test match intensity against top-tier opponents in the 10 jersey.
.

How is it that a bloke who has produced when asked to is somehow less temperamentally suited to the role than a bloke who is unable to bench his ego for long enough to catch a thigh high bouncing ball?
One produced and one didn't.
QC (Quade Cooper) is a protected species around here.

 

[H...]

How is it that a bloke who has produced when asked to is somehow less temperamentally suited to the role than a bloke who is unable to bench his ego for long enough to catch a thigh high bouncing ball?
One produced and one didn't.
QC (Quade Cooper) is a protected species around here.

I think the fanboys are worried we'd play better without him.

If he is so superior, I don't see how trying another option could hurt. The tournament is lost already.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

in retrospect it would be done better

there is nothing retrospective about it: use the yardstick I offered you.
Carter would never go for the flashy play when the situation could be advanced by resort to the simple play.
Cooper is the opposite.
Who is the best in the world?
What should QC (Quade Cooper) do to make himself better? Play more like Carter: think more feel less.
Over and out.

 

[gel]

QC (Quade Cooper) passed a lot of balls to gaps that enabled our receivers (mostly the centres and fullback) to gain good metres repeatedly.

That had been missing recently when he wasn't playing 5/8th.

I think there were only three incidents in his play that were truly shockers. On a shocker scale of 1-10, they were quite possibly an 11 or 12 admittedly. In the grand scheme of things (after I had calmed down from tearing my hair out over the howlers), he actually had an OK game otherwise I thought.

I don't see the need to switch him out unless there is some disciplinary or fitness (or dare I say it - game plan!!!) reason.

Don't fuck with the team now unless it is injury driven, I say. It has delivered more attack this year in two tests than it has in the previous 5.

Douglas had a great debut. A real keeper for the long haul.

 

[barbarian]

How is it that a bloke who has produced when asked to is somehow less temperamentally suited to the role than a bloke who is unable to bench his ego for long enough to catch a thigh high bouncing ball?
One produced and one didn't.
QC (Quade Cooper) is a protected species around here.

Yes, Quade is a protected species. Despite, of course, the 42 pages of quite vigorous debate over his place in the team. I admire you IS, to suffer through such unjust persecution simply because of your beliefs. You should take to the streets!

Harris kicking a pressure goal only shows he has the temperament to kick pressure goals. Nothing more. And as we know the role of 10 requires far more than just place-kicking.
.

 

[barbarian]

Over and out.

I'll believe it when I see it.
.