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2012 Rugby Championship Round 4 Game 2 Australia vs Argentina - 15 Sep

Who will win 2012 Rugby Championship Round 4 Game 2 between ARG and AUS?

  • The Men In Gold – Australia

    Votes: 34 69.4%
  • Los Pumas – Argentina

    Votes: 16 32.7%

  • Total voters
    49
  • Poll closed .
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H

H...

Guest
does anyone else think Palu plays seriously under his weight?

I think the backrow (including the 2nd half swap of Samo for HB as Braveheart has talked about) is working quite well at the moment.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Re Article on Kane Douglas (written by Jim Tucker), I don't know who Jim Tucker is but I'd wager he's a Tahs supporter. Not that I don't think Douglas had a good game on the weekend. I do. But Douglas has only played one game and it was at home in front of his friends and family. He should be judged more-so on whether he can replicate that performance, particularly on the road. A good start but Id like to see him repeat the performance before the Sydney Journos start praising him as a born "test player"

;) the reason I posted it was that it was from the Courier Mail, Jim Tucker ain't no Tahs supporter
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
does anyone else think Palu plays seriously under his weight?

I think the backrow (including the 2nd half swap of Samo for HB as Braveheart has talked about) is working quite well at the moment.

Palu was really good against Wales.

When he's fit, he's the best 8 we've got. Unfortunately that hasn't been for overly long periods of time in recent years.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Timani doesn't look like a lock and i'd personally like to see him get a lot of time at 8 next season.

Watch out for little (117kgs) brother Lopeti. He is a natural 8. If the Tahs can stop him going in at the side of rucks he could be anything in our game.

Sitaleki needs some cricket practice taking catches with soft hands. He was starting to prove himself as the big bopper runner that Deans craves and now he has to address the technical side of his game.

I thought Cliffy played well against Wales especially in the one he played for 80 minutes at the SFS. He signed for another year IIRR and that was probably to be around for the Lions, but he is so injury prone now that you have to question using him. Lets see if he can stay on the park for the Tahs next year.
.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Harris is nowhere near been a test level fly-half, his ball distribution is only slightly better the McCabe and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Harris is a hardrunner yes. Test level playmaker no.

WTF is "ball distribution"?
Its something they talk about in league - it has zero to do with union.
Do you mean passing?
 

BDA

Jim Lenehan (48)
A FEW THOUGHTS ON THE GAME


-The forwards worked hard and certainly weren't bullied by the Argies pack. I good sign given that we have some of our best forwards on the sideline (Palu, Horwill, Timani, Pocock, Moore).

- The Argies did a great job of slowing down our ball. At every ruck there was the ubiquitous puma lining on the wallabies’ side. I actually thought Wayne Barnes should have policed this a bit better. Nevertheless this game was great experience for a guy like Phipps who will be all the better for the experience. He had to work very hard to get quick ball and he can only improve with experience. Guys like Dennis and Douglas would have also benefited.

- The lineout was ok and the scrum was pretty good. Considering the scrum was one area the Argies were hoping to have the advantage, we looked pretty decent, without being dominant. It’s important that our front row doesn’t switch off in the final 20 minutes as we often scrummage well until the end of the game and then all people remember is our pack getting pushed back in the final 10.

- Phipps had a few bad errors which I’m happy to put down to his inexperience. Otherwise did ok in tough conditions. His snipe to win the game is evidence that he can be an impact player in attack. He’ll get better with more match time.

- Douglas looks like a decent workhouse of a forward and our second row stocks for next year are starting to look better. It was one area of concern at the start of the season when only Horwill and Simmons looked like viable options, the latter not setting the world on fire this year. But now with Horwill, Timani, Douglas and Simmons looking like potential long term options (with Pyle and Neville also waiting to show us what they’ve got) that area is no longer looking like a weakness. I think the Wallabies coaching team has final cottoned on to the idea of playing specials TH LH locks to improve the scrum. The Pairing Horwill/Timani next year looks like a powerful locking combination and should be good competition for whatever lock pair the Lions go with.

- McCabe showed once again he is a test player. I think we can all agree, despite not agreeing on which position suits him best.

- Cooper had a crap game but that’s what you generally get from Quade. A mixed bag, sometime more good than bad, sometimes more bad than good. I’m still not sure he is the best long term option, but I think Deans worked that out last year. O’Connor will surely take over in the EOYT but for the meantime I’d keep Cooper there. IMO He’s our best 5/8 (with Liafano out injured).

- I really like use of Higgers as impact from the bench. Gill too. When the argies were attacking our line at the end of the game, Deans brought on Gill for the final moments and I thought that was a useful substitution as it would almost double our chances of turning over the ball in the final minutes. Sure enough it was some good work from Higger and Gill that got them the turnover.

My final comment is in relation to the Pumas. A lot of talk before the RC was about how much the Pumas would improve following their inclusion in the tournament. What wasn’t talked about was the fact that, in my view, having the Pumas in the tournament will make the other three sides (particularly Australia) better sides. I’m so happy that we’ll get to play these guys twice each year. They play a style which is similar to most of the Six Nations teams, in that there tactics against the Wallabies will generally be to slow the play down, stifle the rhythm of our team, and play from set piece to set piece. At the same time they offer a lot more in the way of attacking threats than a team like Italy or Scotland. The Wallabies will benefit enormously from playing a team like the Pumas as it will help them to improve the areas of their game in which the Wallabies traditionally struggle.
 

chasmac

Alex Ross (28)
btw was pissed off to watch AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) draw the centre and winger to him and free up Ioane only to ignore him and take the contact. Again!

I thought the outside backs were quite lateral. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) needed to do more to counter the drift defense.
Their defensive style was known before this game and should have been unlocked to a greater extent than it was.

I liked what I saw for McCabe's try; Digby and Higgers were both charging at the same hole / part of the defensive line that McCabe got through. There were a good 4-5 options for Cooper for that try. It was after multiple phases and indicates some evolved teamwork to put it all together.

Apart from the chargedown I thought Cooper was pretty good, he definitely tried to create.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Re Article on Kane Douglas (written by Jim Tucker), I don't know who Jim Tucker is but I'd wager he's a Tahs supporter.

We all had a chuckle at that BDA, but you are right in indicating that one good debut test doesn't prove anything and it's how he backs it up that is more important.

It will be interesting to see what happens in starting selections if Timani is fit for the SA trip. At least it is better to know that one of those two harder guys will partner Sharpe who is not an abrasive player. And Sharpie is strictly left hand side of the scrum in test rugby and they are right hand side - except Timani will be at TH lock if he and Douglas ever scrum together in a test.
.
 

chasmac

Alex Ross (28)
The front row has surprised me this year.
Robinson substitution seems to be working. Alexander hasn't been pinged off the park.
TPN lineout throwing really isn't up to test standard, he seriously devalues the lineout as an attacking option.

Puma's were a good team to play at this point in the season. They asked some serious questions but the post mortem will be positive for the Wallabies.

Sharpie is a legend. Best speech from a captain in a long time. If he'd got that try everyone would be over the moon about Quade's 80 mins.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Sharpie is a legend. Best speech from a captain in a long time. If he'd got that try everyone would be over the moon about Quade's 80 mins.

I don't think so.

Most people here still think that Quade should be our test 10 at the moment.

The gripes with him are really that the errors seem to be more around lapses in concentration and failure to execute skills he'd normally achieve in his sleep.

Take the pass to Barnes inside the 22 that went a mile forward and was out of Barnes' reach. As Barbarian (I think) pointed out earlier, normally Cooper would provide a perfect pass to Barnes and we'd be away. The fact that he got the pass so wrong is really uncharacteristic.

When he was running back into the 22 to catch a kick and missed it when he did the slide-catch attempt and we had to tidy up, it was also uncharacteristic. It wasn't the easiest ball to catch, but this is something Cooper would normally do easily.

Dropping the bouncing ball forcing Ioane to be offside in the 22 costing us three points was also a basic error.

The charge dow resulted from Cooper taking a little too long and going for a low driving kick instead of putting it high out of the reach of the defenders.

Most of these errors really seemed to revolve around a lack on concentration more than anything else. This is what was most worrying about his performance.

Cooper did plenty of good things in attack and was responsible for most of our line breaks and the McCabe try.

Getting rid of the errors from aspects of his game that are normally no-brainers is what is required. To an extent we take the good and the bad with Cooper but he really needs to get rid of the bad when it revolves around executing basic skills.
 

tigerland12

John Thornett (49)
I cannot see Cooper getting dropped. Maybe if O'Connor or Lealiafano were fit, and Beale wasn't playing shithouse, but right now he should stay at 10, keeping Barnes at fullback.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
A good post up there BDA, especially this:
My final comment is in relation to the Pumas. A lot of talk before the RC was about how much the Pumas would improve following their inclusion in the tournament. What wasn’t talked about was the fact that, in my view, having the Pumas in the tournament will make the other three sides (particularly Australia) better sides.

They are the only RC side who can be proud of their rugby in the RC.

The others have been poor as I said before the last round of games and nothing happened in Round 4 to require a retraction. Are the papers and talk back shows giving the All Blacks a serve over there? Sure, I wouldn't mind if the Wobs were that bad but the rugby purists in NZ must be wondering why their team is unbeaten. (Answer: the others are worse.)

All this has resulted in some poor rugby being dished up in the RC although there has been some excitement from the closeness of the scores. It is no wonder that the TV ratings are so bad.

My son dragged me to the last Dragons rugby league game of the season a few weeks ago on Fathers Day. There was better ball movement in that one game from two ordinary league teams this year, than I have seen from the Wallabies and Waratahs in 2012. To be fair: the league players seemed to have been coached to pass the ball from a young age and to be in place to take passes.

It's an interesting concept.
.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
WTF is "ball distribution"?
Its something they talk about in league - it has zero to do with union.
Do you mean passing?

Semantics.... Everyone knew what I was talking about and the point stands.. Do you wish to address the issue or deflect it ?
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Whaat? Lineout was great on Saturday. One (marginal) not straight call and one loss (not sure who's fault that was), pretty good considering we had 14 lineouts that night.

Agree. The frustrating thing was that throw that was not straight was so short after he was fairly good throwing otherwise. Just lost concentration I suppose.
.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Semantics.. Everyone knew what I was talking about and the point stands.. Do you wish to address the issue or deflect it ?
I have - Cooper is a one trick pony: someone told him we needed to beat the Argies out wide so bang - they're pretty much all cut outs.
Harris could be coached - Cooper already knows everything.
He has been worked out at this level: they know he can't run with any consequence and that he loves the long pass the rest is easy for the defensive team.
 

BPC

Phil Hardcastle (33)
I don't think so.

Most people here still think that Quade should be our test 10 at the moment.

The gripes with him are really that the errors seem to be more around lapses in concentration and failure to execute skills he'd normally achieve in his sleep.

Take the pass to Barnes inside the 22 that went a mile forward and was out of Barnes' reach. As Barbarian (I think) pointed out earlier, normally Cooper would provide a perfect pass to Barnes and we'd be away. The fact that he got the pass so wrong is really uncharacteristic.

When he was running back into the 22 to catch a kick and missed it when he did the slide-catch attempt and we had to tidy up, it was also uncharacteristic. It wasn't the easiest ball to catch, but this is something Cooper would normally do easily.

Dropping the bouncing ball forcing Ioane to be offside in the 22 costing us three points was also a basic error.

The charge dow resulted from Cooper taking a little too long and going for a low driving kick instead of putting it high out of the reach of the defenders.

Most of these errors really seemed to revolve around a lack on concentration more than anything else. This is what was most worrying about his performance.

Cooper did plenty of good things in attack and was responsible for most of our line breaks and the McCabe try.

Getting rid of the errors from aspects of his game that are normally no-brainers is what is required. To an extent we take the good and the bad with Cooper but he really needs to get rid of the bad when it revolves around executing basic skills.

He hasn't been the same since Stephanie Rice dumped him. Correlation doesn't mean causation but perhaps there is a link . . .
 
T

TOCC

Guest
I have - Cooper is a one trick pony: someone told him we needed to beat the Argies out wide so bang - they're pretty much all cut outs.
Harris could be coached - Cooper already knows everything.
He has been worked out at this level: they know he can't run with any consequence and that he loves the long pass the rest is easy for the defensive team.
No need to respond.

Harris was average in 'passing' when playing 5/8 at Super Rugby level... He doesn't have the skillset to play fly-half for the Wallabies..
 
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