2012 Rugby Championship Round 4 Game 2 Australia vs Argentina - 15 Sep

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think it's the lines he runs now that show how much he's improved as a footballer. A couple of times this season he's run some superb angles and scored. I love McCabe as a player for everything he brings, I'm just not sure he is our ideal 12. At outside centre he could absolutely tear it up though.

 

[H...]

Who else do you want to replace cooper?

It is proven that he can lead a good and consistent professional team in the Reds, but apparently that doesn't count since it is super level, so who has been better at test level that we should use at 10?

There isn't anyone I'd currently replace cooper with. He's the best available player.

I merely object to the "well he did it in Super rugby!" logic that you seem to want to use.

He hasn't proved that he's got what it takes to consistently perform at test level. He may do yet, but it would be good if he'd start doing it soon.

 

[Joe Blow]

I thought AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was good again at 13. He is much bigger and stronger than McCabe and makes headway every time he takes on the line. Once or twice he did not pass to Digby because it would have been risky and Diggers was not in space.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) should be our long term outside centre.

 

[Groucho]

Actually I really think we should use the whole Waratahs pack, if you think of Hooper as a Waratah from now on.
I mean, wernt they fearsome at Super 15 level

I wasn't talking about silencing critics of the Waratahs - I really couldn't care less about the Tahs.

I meant silence foreign critics who describe our tight 5 as soft, which those two aren't.

It would be quite quiet round here if people stopped hearing the franchise voices during the test season.

 

[tranquility]

Tapuai played 13 after the Waratahs game

Tapuai has played rugby at 13, but only at super level I might add (never as a junior). My point was in relation to this;

[quote="tigerland12, post: 411740, member: 4223"] Wasn't Taps at 13 when he played all his good footy this season? Fainga'a was injured and the center pairing was usually Harris/Lance and Tapuai[/quote]

He was at 12, when he was white hot earlier in the year, but yes he did play 13 adequately on a few occasions.

 

[tranquility]

McCabe plays the 12 style that suits Quade. The other player who plays that style is Ant Fainga'a.

This theory is a myth in my opinion, I don't see how Tapuai wouldnt gel with him as he is a hard runner AND a good distributor. In either sense, McCabe should be one of the first backs chosen.

 

[Ruggo]

This theory is a myth in my opinion, I don't see how Tapuai wouldnt gel with him as he is a hard runner AND a good distributor. In either sense, McCabe should be one of the first backs chosen.

When Taps has played 12 for the Reds outside cooper he has played a similar role. Harris has also for that matter. It is more the style than the individual but I had the 2010 Reds season in mind when I made the comment.

 

[fatprop]

Kane proves more than able to play beside Wallaby brothers

• Jim Tucker
• The Courier-Mail
• September 17, 2012 12:00AM

Kane Douglas had an impressive debut in a Wallabies shirt against Argentina at Skilled Park. Picture: Getty Source: Getty Images
BEING tagged "Mr Mundane" should be treated as a badge of honour not an insult by eye-catching Wallaby debutant Kane Douglas who is a workhorse perfectly suited for a long Test career.
You measure new Test wingers by blistering runs, props by their unbudging scrum presence and halfbacks by the crisp snap of their pass.
Locks going largely unseen hopefully means they are in the thick of unfashionable cleanouts and scrum grunt as the 2.01m Douglas was against the body-jolting Pumas pack last Saturday night at Skilled Park.
"He loves the mundane which you've got to have in a Test pack. You've got to have blokes doing the stuff that's often not recognised by the viewing public," coach Robbie Deans said.
"He showed he's a Test footballer by hitting the ground running."
A rowdy gang of mates from his former Yamba Buccaneers club roared when Douglas did stand out with a strong early run and then charged at opposite number Manuel Carizza to force a knock-on.


Douglas has regularly been a stout performer against South Africa's Super Rugby sides for NSW Waratahs so he should approach the forward-based challenge of the Springboks in Pretoria on September 29 with confidence.
"It's an awesome feeling to get the first one out of the way with a win because it was a step up on any game I've ever played in," Douglas enthused.
"Mate, I was shaking before kick-off before I got into it."
Douglas said pre-Test he had admired veteran Nathan Sharpe since he was a little fella so he was all ears when Sharpe rallied the Wallabies when they fell 19-6 behind.
"Sharpie told us the last 20 (minutes) was a real test of character and what guts we have," Douglas said.
Halfback Nick Phipps admirably showed his with the game-winning snipe from the ruckbase to set up a try for winger Digby Ioane, who admitted relief that the pass was not whistled as forward.
Phipps showed off a sharp pass and good energy but shanking a clearing punt into touch from a free-kick and a missed covering tackle in the Pumas second try are errors he'll work on fixing.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

So you actually have no answer as to who should be selected to replace cooper?

who asked?

 

[Scotty]

There isn't anyone I'd currently replace cooper with. He's the best available player.

I merely object to the "well he did it in Super rugby!" logic that you seem to want to use.

He hasn't proved that he's got what it takes to consistently perform at test level. He may do yet, but it would be good if he'd start doing it soon.

My original post about super rugby was in response to another's statement 'you can't build a consistent team around cooper'.

I pointed out that the reds are a consistent team with him at the helm, but then got the response 'this is a test thread'.

Cooper has shown he can perform consistently at the reds. He can do the same for the wallabies if he is given the support structure and confidence - he will settle down. It is funny that many have been talking about his 'arrogance' being the issue, because I actually see his issue as nervousness. When he makes a simple mistake it is generally because he has had time to think about it an I think this is when his nervousness takes over.

I would draw comparisons to Chris Latham. He was tearing it up for the reds for a few seasons before he settled into the wallabies. Many nsw supporters never had any faith in his wallaby selection and thought he was a basket case. Once he had some consistent time at the wallabies he settled into the role and from their ousted one of our best ever fullbacks and became the worlds best.

If handled correctly I think cooper will do the same.

 

[fatprop]

Yeah cooper needs to be worked with.

But his runners need to work harder and with better angles

He has the talent to create, but I don't think he is 100% fit. He isn't beating defenders. He isn't the threat ball in hand he was last year - and without that threat defenders can drop off him and smash the runners

 

[Inside Shoulder]

He can do the same for the wallabies if he is given the support structure and confidence - he will settle down.

How long will he need? He's had 4 years and 37(?) caps....Ella won 25

The dogs are barking: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/r...ative-at-flyhalf/story-fn8ouw0e-1226475092781

I actually think Beale should be picked there despite the fact that I dont think he is a long term proposition in that position.
If we were serious we'd give Harris a start (assuming he isnt injured).

 

[What2040]

Cooper the best we have ATM - Agree with fatprop re runners and angles.
am over Beale - piss off, get fit, get your life in order and if good enough come back (blokes ability is unquestioned).

We all strive to have a team that plays perfect rugby, wins by heaps every time, never drops the ball, make shit kicks etc etc but it can never happen. You can only ever play the team in front of you and win on the day, good, bad or ugly....

 

[H...]

My original post about super rugby was in response to another's statement 'you can't build a consistent team around cooper'.

I pointed out that the reds are a consistent team with him at the helm, but then got the response 'this is a test thread'.

Cooper has shown he can perform consistently at the reds. He can do the same for the wallabies if he is given the support structure and confidence - he will settle down. It is funny that many have been talking about his 'arrogance' being the issue, because I actually see his issue as nervousness. When he makes a simple mistake it is generally because he has had time to think about it an I think this is when his nervousness takes over.

I would draw comparisons to Chris Latham. He was tearing it up for the reds for a few seasons before he settled into the wallabies. Many nsw supporters never had any faith in his wallaby selection and thought he was a basket case. Once he had some consistent time at the wallabies he settled into the role and from their ousted one of our best ever fullbacks and became the worlds best.

If handled correctly I think cooper will do the same.

When the rugby championship is made up of provincial teams like the 15 that play Super Rugby, quade's performances in Super Rugby will be especially relevant. At this stage, I prefer to judge his test performances on their own. He has played quite a few of them now and frankly his fan(boys) seem to want to hang their hats on his 2011 super rugby season. He hasn't managed to reproduce that terribly well at all in subsequent test matches.

I don't have the mysterious state allegiance that some people have and allow to colour their view. I like quade and hope he settles in but shit, I'd like it to happen sooner rather than later, if that's okay.

 

[TOCC]

How long will he need? He's had 4 years and 37(?) caps..Ella won 25

The dogs are barking: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/r...ative-at-flyhalf/story-fn8ouw0e-1226475092781

I actually think Beale should be picked there despite the fact that I dont think he is a long term proposition in that position.
If we were serious we'd give Harris a start (assuming he isnt injured).

Shock horror, Ella throwing his support behind Beale... Next all we need is Khoder Nasser backing Quade..


What a crock of shit, Beale has been out form, out of fitness and out on the piss.. He doesn't deserve to be given the Wallabies 5/8 position..

Harris is nowhere near been a test level fly-half, his ball distribution is only slightly better the McCabe and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Harris is a hardrunner yes... Test level playmaker no...

 

[H...]

Ella has been shilling for Beale for almost 10 years now.

I've never found Ella to be a terribly astute analyst anyway, to be honest.

 

[TOCC]

That's because Mark Ella was his first
manager and arranged for him attend St Joseph's... It's all interconnected

 

[Lee Grant]

McCabe must have been a a real handful at lower levels. He is such a hard runner and picks really good lines.

He was a bit of a late bloomer actually. Although he was in the NSW IIs Schools team and made the Oz A Schools team, he wasn't noticed as an elite player until a year or two after school, which happens a lot, especially with no frills players like Pat.

Once he played for my local club you could see the value of his persistent old school excellence in the basics of the game. He made the Oz U/19 team and they used him at flyhalf, at least in some games. They didn't have a real specialist no.10 that year as I remember it, and used utility guys.

That was 2007 when he was in the Tahs amateur academy, but they told him that they doubted he would be a Super player. He worked on his game in club rugby and did some sprint training with the Manly league sprint coach. He had a bung knee in 2008 but his Rats' team mate Mark Gerrard put in a good word for him at the Brumbies. He was recruited in their WTG in 2009 and was the star of their tour of France after the Super season that year.

You know the rest - playing every minute of the 2010 S14 season, by then a fully contracted player, Oz Super rookie of the year, and making the Oz EOYT.
.

 

[Lee Grant]

That's because Mark Ella was his first
manager and arranged for him attend St Joseph's. It's all interconnected

The lads that get into the indigenous programme at Joeys are chosen by a committee that include folks from indigenous organisations and the state government. The school doesn't have much of a say in the matter and managers have none.

Some of the lads chosen have no great sporting prowess; some of them do.
.

 

[What2040]

That's because Mark Ella was his first
manager and arranged for him attend St Joseph's. It's all interconnected

Ella promoted this bloke at schoolboy level. Don't think he ever would have gained the dizzy heights he has without the support of Ella and without his indigenousness (shit is that a word).

Having said that there are plenty of young aboriginal lads that have the basic skills of running, stepping, catching and passing that would be great for our game. The problem has always been to identify, nurture and mentor them and keep them on the straight and narrow as they ascend into the competitive (and successful) rugby world.

Don't know the answer - am sure other posters are much better suited than me to the answer of the question.