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2012 IRB Junior World Championship

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rugbyskier

Ted Thorn (20)
That 5 metre scrum where the South African front rowers demolished the Kiwis was the turning point of the match that the commentators opined at the time. The South African tighthead certainly gave the Kiwi loosehead a gobful when the Boks got the penalty.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Stuff it. Missed the final. Thought it was tonight. Sounds like a belter of a final.

Will have to scour you tube for a replay.

Well done young Bokke.
 

ACR

Desmond Connor (43)
Well done Boks, a great game. They held their line well when the Blacks were on top and took their chances. Mauls were too good, and Pollard kicked them out of their half very well.

I have to say IMO, bias as it is, I have to question that grounding by the 9. He didn't have it under control, he definitely didn't plant it with his right hand so what did he plant it with? Not taking anything away from them, they deserved it. Well done to the team and the crowds that turned up.
 

It is what it is

John Solomon (38)
Just watched the U 20 Final this afternoon.
Congratulations to both teams on a brutal contest and particularly SA on winning.
This final should be 'must watch' viewing for potential Australian U 20 Coaches/Selectors/Players so as we can get fair dinkum about the levels of intensity and physicality the best teams play at and where we need to get to.
Our kids don't have the same strength, size or physical maturity to compete at this level at the moment.
I've mentioned in earlier threads that our boys worked their backsides off trying, but we are too far off the pace.
 

Dai bando

Charlie Fox (21)
Well done wales
Yep third and a win against the ABs, they have achieved something that the senior team has'nt for some time, I was looking at the 1905 tour by the Blacks the other day and their biggest player was 6'2" and 14st :D how times have changed huh!
 

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
I think in this years championship, for a lot of teams, we've seen players that we'll be talking about in a few years time as starters for their national side and possible world stars from then on. Bit of a pity for Aus that they had a poor tournament but it's fine margins.

One thing I don't agree with is the format of the competition and I think that Italy are hard done by being relegated. I'm not arguing that they weren't the worst team at the tournament but since next year will be pretty much completely different teams it means that a potentially better crop of players are denied a crack at the top tier tournament.

Personally I would like to see the number of teams competing expanded and for there to be at least a quarter final after the pool stages rather than straight into a semi. I think SA can be proud of the way they hosted the tournament and there are positive signs that interest in the U20 game is growing rapidly. Almost 35k for the final is more that we've seen for some senior test matches involving Tier 1 teams this June window.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Fantastic final at a fantastic venue. Pollard havent had the best of match but that 50 metre droppie made up for it. Looking forward to see these Bokkie youngsters in the CC this year.
 

twenty seven

Tom Lawton (22)
Just watched the U 20 Final this afternoon.
Congratulations to both teams on a brutal contest and particularly SA on winning.
This final should be 'must watch' viewing for potential Australian U 20 Coaches/Selectors/Players so as we can get fair dinkum about the levels of intensity and physicality the best teams play at and where we need to get to.
Our kids don't have the same strength, size or physical maturity to compete at this level at the moment.
I've mentioned in earlier threads that our boys worked their backsides off trying, but we are too far off the pace.

We do have the lads - they were not selectd and some injured. We look back at school boys and not forward to those playing in Prems rugby, Super Rugby or those who have matured since leaving school.
Too may selectors look at training performances instead of the actions on the field.
 

SuperGrover

Darby Loudon (17)
One thing I don't agree with is the format of the competition and I think that Italy are hard done by being relegated. I'm not arguing that they weren't the worst team at the tournament but since next year will be pretty much completely different teams it means that a potentially better crop of players are denied a crack at the top tier tournament.

Personally I would like to see the number of teams competing expanded and for there to be at least a quarter final after the pool stages rather than straight into a semi.

While I agree that the format of the tournament could be tinkered with (including your suggestion of QF's), I think increasing the number of teams in order to accommodate teams such as Italy every year would be detrimental to the wider development of rugby.

The second tier Junior World Trophy is a valuable development tool. At present it has 8 teams compete in 2 pools of 4. Taking the "bigger" teams from this tournament would, in my opinion, only serve to widen the gap between the tiers. I think it more important that Japan gets to play Italy next year (possibly) than Italy gets to play New Zealand.

If any tournament were to be expanded, I would rather the JWT were expanded to include a third pool to replicate the JWC.
 

SuperGrover

Darby Loudon (17)
For those of us interested trying to predict the "next big thing" here are a couple of scouting reports from the Junior World Championship.

Scouting report: Jan Serfontein

Planet Rugby's scouts headed over to Newlands to watch South Africa's inside centre at the Junior World Championship.

Who is he?
In case you haven't already heard, South Africa's Jan Serfontein was named the IRB Junior Player of the Year 2012 following a thrilling Junior World Championship final against New Zealand, which saw the Baby Boks crowned champions for the first time.

Serfontein is the first South African to win the Award, and the first to receive an IRB age grade honour since Pat Barnard was named the IRB Under 21 Player of the Year in 2002.

The 19-year-old from Port Elizabeth just edged out Ireland's JJ Hanrahan and team-mate Shaun Adendorff to win the prestigious accolade. He joins some illustrious company including Luke McAlister, Jerome Kaino, Lionel Beauxis and Aaron Cruden (amongst others) in winning the award.

Already a star of schoolboy rugby at Grey College, Serfontein made his debut for the Blue Bulls Vodacom Cup team against the Pumas in Nelspruit in March this year.

His great grandfather is Jack Slater, a Springbok of three Test matches (1924 and 1928). His father, also Jan, played 117 times for Eastern Province.

Attributes:
Standing 187cm (6'2") tall and weighing 97kg (214lbs), Serfontein already has the physique to compete at senior level. As part of the Baby Boks leadership group, he started all five games for the hosts.

Serfontein was a standout player from day one of the tournament, catching the eye with his running lines, excellent distribution of the ball and robust defence. He even has a decent boot.

Winning try:
His elusive and creative play coupled with great vision and awareness saw him score four tries in South Africa's five games, including the winning try in the final.

That score seemed to sum up his tournament - the move started when he plucked fly-half Handrè Pollard's bomb out of the air and it was a fitting climax to a fantastic final that he was on hand to finish off, beating three defenders as he stepped and muscled his way to the line.

He said:
"I am humbled by the award, but must credit everyone that was on the field with me. This was a team effort from the start, where everyone just worked so hard for the guy next to him. It is a special feeling for all of us."

We think:
Serfontein will be eligible to play in 2013 again, which speak volumes for his ability already. The fact that the Blue Bulls are already using him at senior level is an illustration of how far ahead of most of his peers he is. At this rate, he could be the next Frans Steyn.

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16017_7839807,00.html
 

SuperGrover

Darby Loudon (17)
Scouting report: Jordan Taufua

Planet Rugby's scouts headed over to Newlands Stadium to watch New Zealand's number eight at the Junior World Championship.

Who is he?
Jordan Taufua started four of New Zealand's five games at the 2012 Junior World Championship at number eight and came off the bench against Fiji. He plays for Canterbury back home.

Taufua scored a brilliant try against Wales in the semi-finals, diving over the in corner while managing to avoid both the touchline and a handful of Welsh defenders.

Attributes:
The guy is tank. He doesn't have a massive upper body but from the waist to the knees he is all muscle. His thighs look like tree trunks!

Standing 182cm (6'0"), Taufua isn't a giant by modern rugby standers but he does weigh a very solid 105kg (232lbs), which is pretty impressive for a 20-year-old.

From a distance you would swear you were looking at Victor Vito - even young Taufua's style of play is reminiscent of the Hurricanes and All Black number eight.

Attack, defence, work rate:
Taufua was one of New Zealand's standout players throughout the tournament and we were particularly impressed with his ball carrying against Wales in the semi-finals. He also put in some monster hits and seemed to infatigable in getting to rucks.

In the final against South Africa, when the Kiwi pack was generally coming off second best, we counted at least five occasion when Taufua bust over the advantage line with ball in hand.

We think:
This kid has a bright future. By their own unmatchable standards, this wasn't the best side Kiwi U20 side ever to take the field, but Taufua was clearly one of the stars of the future.

Surely it won't be long before he becomes a regular at ITM Cup level and in a year or two, Super Rugby beckons.

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16017_7839725,00.html
 

SuperGrover

Darby Loudon (17)
Scouting report: Pablo Matera

Planet Rugby's scouts headed over to Newlands Stadium to watch Argentina's openside flank at the Junior World Championship.

Who is he?
At the tender age of just 18, Pablo Matera - from the Asociacion Alumni club in Buenos Aires - was one of the younger players on show at the U20 global showpiece. He played all five games for Los Pumitas, starting four times and coming off the bench against Scotland.

Argentina stormed through the group stages, winning all three of their games to top Pool C. Our man Matera was influential in the victory over France and scored a try in the dominant display against Australia.

After those results, we thought we'd take a closer look at what the young Matera had to offer.

Attributes:
After Argentina's win over France, one of the travelling French journos reckoned Matera was one of the players to keep an eye on. His recommendation was not surprising considering that the flank stands 1.94m (6'4") tall and weighs 98kg (216lbs). Not bad for an 18-year-old.

He really looks more like a lock than an openside flank. Indeed, physically he bears no resemblance to a classic 'fetcher' (no Heinrich Brüssow look-a-like here!) and we were soon to discover that indeed Argentina were using him as more like a third lock than a scavenger at the rucks.

Attack:
Unfortunately we chose to watch Matera in the semi-finals against South Africa and the third-place playoff against Wales and in both games Argentina were - surprisingly - convincingly outplayed.

Matera didn't see much of the ball against South Africa, but was regularly used as the front jumper in the line-outs against Wales, winning possession four times with clean takes. He made a good run down the touchline, handing off the first defender with impressive strength. He also intercepted a Baby Bok pass in midfield but his handling let him down in contact.

Not that he didn't should decent ball skills as it was his offload that set Argentina's right wing up for a break from his own 22 that eventually led to their second try against Wales.

His real role, as you would expect considering his size, was as a ball carrier and we counted eight times that he took the ball forward against South Africa - a fair contribution considering his team-mates were generally going backwards.

Defence:
He never missed a tackle against South Africa but we only counted six tackles made, which was poor. Unlike in the pool stages, the Argentine defence wasn't well organised and Matera was quite often out of position.

However, we did like his efforts at the restarts, where he launched his body through the air like a rogue torpedo, causing all kinds of havoc amongst the awaiting receivers.

Work rate:
Like any teenager, Matera seems very good at not looking interested and, to be honest, we were a little disappointed with how often he was drifting around in the backline or standing out on the wing when you would have expected him to be getting stuck into rucks.

You can't fault his commitment when the ball is near, however, as illustrated by one incident against South Africa. We thought his game was over when he went down with a shoulder injury but when play drift towards the medics trying to treat him, he got up, took a pass out wide and the bolted 10m before bouncing a defender out of the way. He needed another visit from the medical staff afterwards!

We think:
Considering his size and skill at the line-outs, we wouldn't be surprised to see him in Argentina's second row at next year's Junior World Championship in France. He'll have to improve his work rate, but he clearly has some skills. We look forward to checking his progress next year.

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16017_7839544,00.html
 

SuperGrover

Darby Loudon (17)
While not strictly on topic, for those interested in the Junior World Trophy.


Pool A
Chile
Russia
Tonga
USA

Results to Date
Chile 53 – 19 Russia
USA 22 – 11 Tonga
Tonga 62 – 7 Russia
USA 54 – 25 Chile


Pool B
Japan
Zimbabwe
Georgia
Canada

Results to Date
Japan 39 – 36 Zimbabwe
Georgia 31 – 17 Canada
Georgia 43 – 7 Zimbabwe
Japan 38 – 35 Canada
 

It is what it is

John Solomon (38)
We do have the lads - they were not selectd and some injured. We look back at school boys and not forward to those playing in Prems rugby, Super Rugby or those who have matured since leaving school.
Too may selectors look at training performances instead of the actions on the field.
Hi 27, I'd be interested in who they left out who should have been selected and who is injured.
This isn't a witch hunt I'm genuinely interested.
Could you name the ideal U20 starting team, from your perspective?
I think we all want to see the best play and them do well.
 

Cardiffblue

Jim Lenehan (48)
Yep third and a win against the ABs, they have achieved something that the senior team has'nt for some time, I was looking at the 1905 tour by the Blacks the other day and their biggest player was 6'2" and 14st :D how times have changed huh!
Strewth. 6'2" wouldn't get a place on the wing now!
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
South African police investigating rape claims against Baby Blacks

June 25, 2012 - 4:36PM

CAPE TOWN: South African police are investigating rape charges against members of New Zealand's junior rugby team after they lost to South Africa in the Junior World Championship, a police spokesman said Monday.
"We are investigating a case of rape after a 22-year-old Cape Town woman alleged she was raped," said national police spokesman Vish Naidoo.
"It is alleged the rape took place during the course of Friday night," he told AFP.
The charge was laid on Saturday.
Earlier on Friday South Africa beat New Zealand 22-16 in the IRB Junior World Championship at Newlands stadium in Cape Town.
Four Baby Blacks players were involved in the incident, according to The New Age newspaper. Naidoo declined to say how many players were being investigated.
Forensic experts combed the Southern Sun Hotel Newlands on Saturday for DNA evidence in a hushed investigation, according to the newspaper.
The whole Baby Blacks team was allowed to leave South Africa after the New Zealands High Commission intervened, according to the newspaper.
"I can't go into details on that," said Naidoo.
Hotel staff told the newspaper the woman came to the hotel Friday night and told the front desk she was visiting a cousin. She knew the hotel players' rooms and had apparently met them before.
"According to some of my colleagues she was apparently drunk. And on Saturday morning she called her parents to fetch her at the hotel after claims that she was raped," a hotel employee told the publication.
"Her parents insisted on opening a case of rape. We are not certain that she was raped, but there was blood found on a sheet on a bed. The rugby players left the hotel at 12:00 am on Saturday."
Police are waiting "for the outcome of the forensic analysis", said Naidoo.
AFP

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...laims-against-baby-blacks-20120625-20y3t.html
 

twenty seven

Tom Lawton (22)
Hi 27, I'd be interested in who they left out who should have been selected and who is injured.
This isn't a witch hunt I'm genuinely interested.
Could you name the ideal U20 starting team, from your perspective?
I think we all want to see the best play and them do well.

Thanks for your reply and interest.
I couldn't name a full squad simply because I haven't seen the lads from the southern states play. I only really know of the QLD boys and I really don't want to name names simply because if they read G& G I don't want to dredge up disappointments that may already be laid to rest. Suffice to say I hope that those in charge have reflected upon decisions made this year and next year they ensure to do a better job in coaching the lads selected.
 

teach

Trevor Allan (34)
A bit more detail on it. Not quite the 4 player rape allegations as initially reported.

Baby Blacks rape allegation under investigation

The New Zealand Rugby Union (NZRU) says it understands a police investigation into an alleged rape is focused on one member of the "Baby Blacks" under 20 team.
Reports from South Africa have said police there were investigating rape charges against four members of the team in a Cape Town hotel room on Friday night, hours after they lost 22-16 the Junior World Championship final to South Africa at Newlands Stadium.
Police spokesperson Colonel Vish Naidoo confirmed that the police were called to the hotel on Saturday morning after a woman laid a complaint of rape.
“I can confirm that a woman claimed that she was raped at the hotel,” he told the New Age newspaper.
“The victim could not tell detectives who raped her because she couldn’t remember anything about the incident.”
NZRU general manager professional rugby Neil Sorensen said an issue had been raised by local police in Cape Town before the New Zealand under 20 team left South Africa.
The team and management complied with local police requirements and cooperated fully and helped with inquiries after which police advised they were happy for all members of the team to travel home.

“Neither team management, nor NZRU have been contacted by the local authorities since then or advised of any further issues or inquiries. If we are contacted we will cooperate and help in any way we can," Mr Sorensen said.

“The team has just returned from South Africa, and we will discuss the matter further with team management in due course.

“Our understanding of the matter is that the allegation is focused on one player.”
A hotel staff member told New Age that a 22-year-old woman entered the hotel on Friday evening. She told the front desk that she was going to visit her cousin in one of the rooms.
“But it seems she met the rugby players somewhere earlier, because she knew what rooms they were staying in,” said the staff member told the newspaper.
“According to some of my colleagues she was apparently drunk. And on Saturday morning she called her parents to fetch her at the hotel after claims that she was raped.
“Her parents insisted on opening a case of rape. We are not certain that she was raped, but there was blood found on a sheet on a bed. The rugby players left the hotel at 12am on Saturday.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/7167992/Baby-Blacks-rape-allegation-under-investigation
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
That was a great win by South Africa and it was underwritten by the earlier comeback in the second half against England. Remember? They had to score 4 tries in the game and win to go through.


As for the players who missed out on the Oz team - who would have made a difference had they been picked? Who were they? Sure the team lacked balance and they could have had more of these and fewer of those, but who would have made a difference? Why did we have to pick so many young players? Who were the better older guys? Australia was so far off the pace I doubt if a few better players would have changed things.

England had a poor result in this U/20 tournament also, but they are better organised to bounce back with the setup they have there.

We have played above our weight in the past and what I mean by that is that we have done well not because we have a good set up, but despite having a poor one. Literally. However sometimes we don't have the cattle to overcome the advantages that other teams have.

To get long term parity we have to have an ARC like the Currie Cup or ITM Cup, with teams attaching the best young players in the country to it for their academies and developing them physically and footie-wise to move up to the main team. They do the homework and the recruiting, and the ARU pick the cream of that group for the IRB tournament, having seen them play.

That's never going to happen in Australia because the market can't bear the cost. We are never going to have long term parity.

Instead of identifying players locally in a number of professional clubs below the Super level as they do in the RSA and NZ, the ARU has to do their identification from the top down and invite players from around the country to go to camps from which they pick the IRB squad.

They also have a National Academy wherein they give footie input and physical development to promising young players, many of whom are U/20 eligible. At least they are nominated by their clubs; so there is some local input. They also have Gold squads for even younger players who will eventually progress to the National Academy.

It's all top down, but it's cheaper than subsidising an ARC without TV revenue to offset the cost.

But get our U/20 lads into Super teams and after a few years of learning on the job they can compete with players of the same age; but by that time they are too old for U/20 rugby.

Unless we can nominate a bunch of players who we knew, before the tournament, would be better than the players picked for it, maybe we have to toughen up and trust that the National Academy set up will get us closer to parity down the track.

Closer; then play above our weight; again.
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