2012 England tour to SA

[Blue]

Olivier and Kruger. Fuck.

The rest is fine.

Great decision to keep Jean as the Captain. Well deserved. Also better that Schalk can just come back and play. Going to be very interesting to see what Meyer does with Schalk.

 

[rustycruiser]

Apparently Kanko and Olivier gone. Good riddance.

Cape Town - Springboks Wynand Olivier and Ryan Kankowski will shortly head overseas to continue their rugby careers in Japan, according to Volksblad.

The duo have already informed Bok coach Heyneke Meyer of their intentions to further their careers abroad.

They are due to leave South Africa at the end of the Super Rugby competition and could be earning more than R500 000 per month playing in the Japanese league.

Negotiations between Olivier, his Japanese club and the Bulls regarding his Super Rugby participation are at an advanced stage. His contract is believed to be for two-years.

Kankowski's stint in Japan is likely to be for six months only. His soured relationship with Sharks coach John Plumtree is believed to have played a part in his desire to leave.

 

[PaarlBok]

Apparently Kanko and Olivier gone. Good riddance.

Not good riddance, should be thanks fuck we are released from this junk.

 

[Mank]

"Good riddance" pretty much means the same thing PB.

By the way, these guys are men as well as rugby players. They're just doing their best, why do you guys feel the need to insult them for being selected?

Insult is probably a strong word, but would you have said the same thing (good riddance / junk) if they were friends of yours?

 

[PaarlBok]

England: 15 Alex Goode, 14 Chris Ashton, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Manusamoa Tuilagi, 11 Ben Foden, 10 Toby Flood, 9 Danny Care, 8 Thomas Waldrom, 7 James Haskell, 6 Tom Johnson, 5 Geoff Parling, 4 Tom Palmer, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Dylan Hartley (captain), 1 Alex Corbisiero.
Replacements: 16 Lee Mears, 17 Joe Marler, 18 Mouritz Botha, 19 Phil Dowson, 20 Lee Dickson, 21 Owen Farrell, 22 Brad Barritt.

Date: Saturday, June 23
Venue: Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth
Kick-off: 17.05 (15.05 GMT)
Referee: Steve Walsh (Australia)
Assistant referees: Nigel Owens (Wales), John Lacey (Ireland)
TMO: Giulio De Santis (Italy)

 

[qwerty51]

I can't understand why you guy hate Olivier so much.. think he's pretty solid

 

[PaarlBok]

I can't understand why you guy hate Oliver so much.. think he's pretty solid

Look at his stats.
http://www.simplysean.co.za/2012/06/21/wynand-olivier-yet-another-chance/

Wynand Olivier: Yet Another Chance

by Sean Wilson on June 21st, 2012

No-one can divide rugby opinion in South Africa quite like Wynand Olivier can. It seems that half the country think he’s a bad player, and it seems the other half just think he’s useless. How are we going to come to a consensus?

Whatever your opinion of him is, he’s starting the test match at inside centre for the Springboks on Saturday. It will be his 22nd start and his 37th cap. It seems that for every one of his caps, the selectors have said “This is your chance to prove that you can step up to test level”. He better make sure that he makes the most of this chance. If he doesn’t, then he’ll leave the selectors no choice but to say the same thing for his 38th cap.

Even though he’s curried favour from Springbok coaches in the past, there’s no way that he can statistically be defined as the team’s lucky charm. A look through South Africa’s win rate while he’s been wearing the green and gold is even more damning than what his detractors say about him.

Of the 36 test matches that Olivier has been a part of, South Africa have won 50% of them. Seems pretty bad by Springbok standards, doesn’t it? Even worse, out of the 21 test matches that he’s started, South Africa have won only 38% of them.

Unfortunately, that’s just the potatoes. Here comes the gravy: out of the 13 matches that he’s started at inside centre, South Africa have only won 15% of them. That means that since South Africa’s readmission into test rugby in 1992, Wynand Olivier has the worst winning percentage of any Springbok No. 12.

That’s right. In the last 20 years, there have been 25 players that have started matches for South Africa at inside centre and none of them have a worse winning percentage than Olivier. Not even Danie van Schalkwyk’s 7 starts split during Andre Markgraaf’s teething period and Carel du Plessis’s vague ‘vision’ yielded a lower percentage (29%). Not even the 7 starts made by Heinrich Fuls while Ian McIntosh had far too little SARFU support brought a worse return (43%). Even De Wet Barry managed to be on the winning side for 45% of the 32 starts he made, most of which were during the first half of the naughties, and Springbok rugby has never had a more troubled period than that. After all, Barry had to endure Nick Mallett’s decline, Harry Viljoen’s lack of assertiveness and the dark days of Kamp Staaldraad itself. Springbok rugby from 2000 to 2003 will always be defined as the good, the bad and the Straueli.

Just to make matters worse, South Africa’s record when Frans Steyn (the man Olivier is replacing) starts at number 12 is perfect. That’s not a hyperbole. Steyn has started 12 games at inside centre for the Springboks and the team has won all of them.

These numbers can’t be worse for Olivier’s battle against Steyn for the public’s affection. Shoot, it’s impossible to garner more affection than Steyn gets from South Africa, no matter who you are. I love Frans Steyn. You love Frans Steyn. We love him so much that when he was living in Paris, earning R7m a year and complaining to Peter de Villiers about feeling shunted, most of us actually felt sorry for him.

Steyn will always be our golden boy with that ‘forever young’ quality about him. He came to us out of the darkness of 2006 (Jake White’s annus horribilis) to give us such hope for the future. We’d recently endured some abysmal results (anyone ready to talk about 0-49 vs Australia? Thought not). Then Steyn came, aged 19, and how we gawped at his prowess. His physique! His vision! Those kicks! A year later, he’s kicking a long range penalty to secure victory in a World Cup final. Olivier watched that from the bench.

Olivier has yet to give Springbok fans any fond memories. His only test try was scored coming off the bench against Italy. Does any Springbok fan remember it? Not at all. The game was defined only by its dullness. It was a test match that had such little build up that it couldn’t even be called an anticlimax. After the final whistle, some fans had to YouTube some Steyn drop kicks just to make themselves feel better.

The public’s attitude to both players is illustrated by how we react to their hair. Poor Wynand constantly gets picked on when he sports lengthy locks. He even gets teased for it after he’s cut them off. However, when Frans runs out with his mangy shoulder-length number, we all just write it off in a type of ‘boys will be boys’ kind of way. After all, he probably got inspired to express himself through his hair when Sebastien Chabal guided him through the underbelly of Parisian suburbia to see music concerts of some tres-cool alternative French rock (the likes of which us mere mortals will never have the privilege of listening to).

Hopefully Olivier will be able to express himself outside of Steyn’s shadow, and be able to contribute to what will hopefully be a winning Springbok cause on Saturday. If not, the game will always be remembered as the one South Africa lost because Steyn was getting married. It would be tragic for Olivier to prove that even when Steyn’s not there, he continues to be upstaged by him.

To make things worse is that Jean have to play 13 to accomodate him, then he say to Meyer, thanks but no thanks for his Bok jersey while we have young up and coming stock like Ebersohn who'd give his left ball to play 1 test for the Bokke while Meyer reward this waiste of space on a rugby field. He is the worst midfielder in SA S15 rugby.

 

[Brisbok]

Look at his stats.

http://www.simplysean.co.za/2012/06/21/wynand-olivier-yet-another-chance/


To make things worse is that Jean have to play 13 to accomodate him, then he say to Meyer, thanks but no thanks for his Bok jersey while we have young up and coming stock like Ebersohn who'd give his left ball to play 1 test for the Bokke while Meyer reward this waiste of space on a rugby field. He is the worst midfielder in SA S15 rugby.

You have lost the plot now Paarl. I don't think anyone is saying he is a great player and most would agree that he is lucky to be in the Bok squad. For me personally, I don't rate him at all and never have. I don't think he should be anywhere near a Bok squad of 30 players. But to say that he is the worst midfielder in SA S15 rugby is quite a ridiculous statement really. He is a solid Super Rugby player without being outstanding. He certainly should not be playing international rugby though.

Don't let your hatred for the Bulls get in the way of your better judgement. Perhaps it is better that you drop this whole Olivier issue now and move on, because your rather over-the-top comments are starting to rub people up the wrong way. Just a suggestion...

 

[rustycruiser]

"Good riddance" pretty much means the same thing PB.

By the way, these guys are men as well as rugby players. They're just doing their best, why do you guys feel the need to insult them for being selected?

Insult is probably a strong word, but would you have said the same thing (good riddance / junk) if they were friends of yours?

Just not international quality. With Olivier overseas, hopefully this will mean both the Bulls and South Africa can move forward with younger more talented players who won't stunt the performance of both teams. He might be a very nice guy for all I know. But he should never have played as much as he did.

Edit : When de Villiers went down injured in the 07 RWC, Jake opted to go with unproven but talented Frans Steyn at 12 rather than an older more experience Olivier. While an indictment of Olivier, it is also of the depth at 12 in South Africa. When JdV and Frans went offshore, he was pretty much next cab off the rank. If not for them leaving, he probably would have played a lot less. Not his fault he is more S15 journeyman than international quality.

 

[PaarlBok]

You have lost the plot now Paarl. I don't think anyone is saying he is a great player and most would agree that he is lucky to be in the Bok squad. For me personally, I don't rate him at all and never have. I don't think he should be anywhere near a Bok squad of 30 players. But to say that he is the worst midfielder in SA S15 rugby is quite a ridiculous statement really. He is a solid Super Rugby player without being outstanding. He certainly should not be playing international rugby though.

Don't let your hatred for the Bulls get in the way of your better judgement. Perhaps it is better that you drop this whole Olivier issue now and move on, because your rather over-the-top comments are starting to rub people up the wrong way. Just a suggestion.

Boet I dont hate the Brutes one bit , so dont let Blou's personal insults let you believe otherwise. I have recieved a lot of flak over a long period trying to justify Snors decision and ways. Now I am not allow to give Meyers critics. He is still young and new and hopefull will learn from his mistake as he move along.

Hope Meisiekind prove me wrong on saturday and put up his best performance. It will be utterly tragic if we drop a test at home specially against the Poms.

 

[Brisbok]

Boet I dont hate the Brutes one bit , so dont let Blou's personal insults let you believe otherwise. I have recieved a lot of flak over a long period trying to justify Snors decision and ways. Now I am not allow to give Meyers critics. He is still young and new and hopefull will learn from his mistake as he move along.

Hope Meisiekind prove me wrong on saturday and put up his best performance. It will be utterly tragic if we drop a test at home specially against the Poms.

Agreed. Before the series started, we all thought the first test would be the toughest one. Now it is certainly shaping up to be the 3rd test that will be toughest with the changes in the squad!

What do you make of Aplon at fullback instead of Joe Pietersen? I am a big fan of Aplon. But Pietersen has done really well all year with the Stormers at 15. He is been solid all year and his tactical kicking from the back has been a big contributor to the Stormers' success IMO. I would have been tempted to start him there this weekend, although I certainly don't think Aplon will let us down.

 

[PaarlBok]

What do you make of Aplon at fullback instead of Joe Pietersen? I am a big fan of Aplon. But Pietersen has done really well all year with the Stormers at 15. He is been solid all year and his tactical kicking from the back has been a big contributor to the Stormers' success IMO. I would have been tempted to start him there this weekend, although I certainly don't think Aplon will let us down.

Thats where I still need to learn meyers way. Joe P should be at least on the bench, covering wing and 15. I dont like Appels in 15, he dont have the kicking game like Joe P, on the wing and backup 15. I am worried about that bench, who will cover midfield and 15 now? JPP, what if he get injured? Poepies Pienaar. Dunno.

 

[REDinCPT]

But to say that he is the worst midfielder in SA S15 rugby is quite a ridiculous statement really.

i was about to agree but then i tried to think of someone worse... meyer bosman perhaps? it would be pretty close tho.

 

[the plastic paddy]

England: 15 Alex Goode, 14 Chris Ashton, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Manusamoa Tuilagi, 11 Ben Foden, 10 Toby Flood, 9 Danny Care, 8 Thomas Waldrom, 7 James Haskell, 6 Tom Johnson, 5 Geoff Parling, 4 Tom Palmer, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Dylan Hartley (captain), 1 Alex Corbisiero.
Replacements: 16 Lee Mears, 17 Joe Marler, 18 Mouritz Botha, 19 Phil Dowson, 20 Lee Dickson, 21 Owen Farrell, 22 Brad Barritt.

Date: Saturday, June 23
Venue: Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth
Kick-off: 17.05 (15.05 GMT)
Referee: Steve Walsh (Australia)
Assistant referees: Nigel Owens (Wales), John Lacey (Ireland)
TMO: Giulio De Santis (Italy)

England are going to get torn a new one with that team. No team containing that stout 'yeoman' Waldrom could be described as lightweight but the contrast with Spies could not be more extreme. Parling and Palmer is a lightweight second row and I think England will miss the grunt provided by Morris Botham as I believe he now calls himself.

 

[PaarlBok]

i was about to agree but then i tried to think of someone worse. meyer bosman perhaps? it would be pretty close tho.

Bosman dont make the starting lineup.
Sharks: Whitehead/Jordaan
Stormers: JdV /JdJ
Lions: Doppies/Taute
Cheetahs: Strauss/Ebersohn
Bulls: Meisiekind/JJ Engelbrecht

Bulls by far the worst midfield pair and both in the Bok sqaud.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

Bosman dont make the starting lineup.
Sharks: Whitehead/Jordaan
Stormers: JdV /JdJ
Lions: Doppies/Taute
Cheetahs: Strauss/Ebersohn
Bulls: Meisiekind/JJ Engelbrecht

Bulls by far the worst midfield pair and both in the Bok sqaud.

And here's Blue in. 3......2.......

Sent from my XT910 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Blue]

I am only here to agree. Somehow we still score more tries. Fuck knows how, but we do.

The Bulls backline has looked way better every time Olivier was injured. Thank god he is off. He used to be a lore more effective but has fallen behind the pace at Super level.

The Stormers bad try scoring record can only be put down to poor coaching. The have all the players.

Btw I am liking that Sharks midfield. That's got some very good potential and it has been the big gap in the Sharks makeup for years.

 

[Mank]

Btw I am liking that Sharks midfield. That's got some very good potential and it has been the big gap in the Sharks makeup for years.

Too true, Sharks have lacked a good midfield for a while.

I am never one to rate a player too early, but I am really hoping Whitehead goes from strength to strength. He's got the best running lines of a South African midfielder I've seen in a while. We'll see I guess.

 

[laps]

Anyone been watching this test series... what's your tips for game 3 with the changes to the SA squad.... and by how much...

Im picking South Africa by 3

 

[Bardon]

SA 9 Eng 8 at half time. Good try taken by Care for England. SA have been the better team but England have done well to keep them out.