2011 World XV

[Bullrush]

Paul Williams for Samoa has been very impressive. He has been the stand-out in Manu back-line. Makes good decisions, backs himself and can make a hit!

 

[da_grubster]

Nearly at the finals stages, was having a quick glance at the Fantasy dream team on Foxsports. Obviously have to consider pre-world cup form and quality of opposition, so thought I would ask who would make your world XV?

I'll start with the certainties.
1. Owen Franks (NZL)
2. Bismark du Plessis (SAF)
3. Dan Cole (ENG)
4. Bakkies Botha (SAF)
5.
6. Jerome Kaino (NZL)
7. Heinrich Brussouw (SAF)/ Richie McCaw (NZL)/ Sam Warburton (WAL)/ David Pocock - All similiar, probably will require a poll
8. Sergio Parisse (ITA)
9. Will Genia (AUS)
10. Dan Carter (NZL)
11. Richard Kahui (NZL)
12.
13.
14. Vincent Clerc (FRA)
15. Kurtley Beale (AUS)/ Pat Lambie (SAF)

16. Stephen Moore (AUS)
17.
18. Dannie Russouw (SAF) - Covers 4/5/6/8
19.
20. Morgan Parra (FRA) - Covers 9/10
21.
22. Israel Dagg (NZL) - Covers 11/14/15

I would include McCaw as he is the current IRB player of the year. He is edging his way back to very good form and while his game isnt purely about fetching like Broussow or Pocock he has the better all round game. Would captain the side as well.

I would put Read in at 8 as he has been the best 8 out of the major nations. I admit to not seeing much of Parisse this year so that is wee bit of a biased selection on my part

Nonu would have to be 12 and either Smith or Fourie at 13. Fourie the better attacking threat with ball in hand, Smith a better distributor and organiser which is probably what you want at 13 with all of the talent around you

 

[light]

It's probably important now to have some ground rules:

- 2011 tests/club games only, previous reputation does not warrant selection.
- Being out with injury is no excuse, whilst someone might have been the best in their position last year, and perhaps again this year if fit, they are not on the paddock. THEY DO NOT COUNT. This will avoid all debates over former world class players up against the newer breed.
- Obviously must be a regular starter for their national team. Minimum 3 tests this year.
- Consistency is important.
- Natural positions matter.
- Bear in mind quality of opposition, a good game against NZ beats scoring 4 tries against Namibia.

Most of this is going to come down to favourite players and whatnot so try keep your personal feelings towards someone out of the equation, acknowledging that there is a better player from another nation does not make you a weaker person, in fact, it is encouraged. Anyone capable of nomination to this team is clearly a better player than most forum contributors anyway, avoid criticising them and keep the justification clear, happy to accept other opinions if they have merit.

Alright, that's probably it.

 

[cyclopath]

I would include McCaw as he is the current IRB player of the year. He is edging his way back to very good form and while his game isnt purely about fetching like Broussow or Pocock he has the better all round game. Would captain the side as well.

I would put Read in at 8 as he has been the best 8 out of the major nations. I admit to not seeing much of Parisse this year so that is wee bit of a biased selection on my part

Nonu would have to be 12 and either Smith or Fourie at 13. Fourie the better attacking threat with ball in hand, Smith a better distributor and organiser which is probably what you want at 13 with all of the talent around you

I'd have to have McCaw there, but if you are picking a team, not a collection of individuals with numbers, you'd have to pick the rest of the backrow around him. Simply because he is very different to Pocock or Broussow or Warburton. Easy thing is to say put the whole AB back row in, but I find 6 and 8 harder to pick. Kaino is hot at the moment, Read injured, so right now maybe Parisse is it.

 

[Antony]

By the above criteria, for mine it's:

1. ? (Roncero? How was he for Stade this year?)
2. Bismarck
3. O Franks (but more for his 2011 Super form than the tests so far)
4. Horwill
5. O'Connell
6. Kaino (easily)
7. Warburton
8. Samo (won a super title and was huge in winning the tri-nations; surely that's enough)
9. Genia
10. Carter
11. Ioane
12. Nonu
13. Fourie
14. North
15. Paul Williams

 

[Lee Grant]

OK - so this is the World XV; let's hold off on team of the RWC tournament for a while.

When this is started let the person who starts it give ground rules such as: players are picked on performances in the RWC tournament only and not on play at any time before it.

Two different teams.

 

[whatty]

lets just pick the players in front of us now!

RWC team

 

[light]

OK - so this is the World XV; let's hold off on team of the RWC tournament for a while.

When this is started let the person who starts it give ground rules such as: players are picked on performances in the RWC tournament only and not on play at any time before it.

Two different teams.

LG, you are right. It is a little too early to be picking a WC dream team, but there haven't been an awful lot of tests played this year, and even the ones that have been played pre-world cup, haven't been played with full squads and often with starting players missing out. If picking a World XV pre-world cup, surely the S15 and European competitions would have to be a better judge of consistency and performance than the Tri-Nations and 6 Nations.

I think I speak for many others when I say I don't watch a hell of a lot of European competitions, the 6N catches my eye every once in a while but the others are just at annoying times of the night. The majority of selections here are going to be S15 players and Tri-Nations standouts, hence why I suggested using the early rounds of the RWC, it's the only chance many of us have had to watch the European players run around.

 

[da_grubster]

I'd have to have McCaw there, but if you are picking a team, not a collection of individuals with numbers, you'd have to pick the rest of the backrow around him. Simply because he is very different to Pocock or Broussow or Warburton. Easy thing is to say put the whole AB back row in, but I find 6 and 8 harder to pick. Kaino is hot at the moment, Read injured, so right now maybe Parisse is it.

fair enough about Parisse, I didn't really read the earlier posts, just a couple of teams. read is back this week so I will hold for a few days before pushing his claims again! He is vital to NZ (and McCaw) to start bossing that breakdown again. We saw a good step up yesterday and If he comes back well then we are in a great position to finally.....nope...not going to say it!

 

[light]

By the above criteria, for mine it's:

1. ? (Roncero? How was he for Stade this year?)
2. Bismarck
3. O Franks (but more for his 2011 Super form than the tests so far)
4. Horwill
5. O'Connell
6. Kaino (easily)
7. Warburton
8. Samo (won a super title and was huge in winning the tri-nations; surely that's enough)
9. Genia
10. Carter
11. Ioane
12. Nonu
13. Fourie
14. North
15. Paul Williams

Things to consider:
If we are going on form, surely Castrogiovanni at least would be ahead of Roncero. Argie scrum hasn't been too dominant and their props aren't well known for getting through alot of work. Kaino would have some serious competition from O'Brien based on what's been said from the European competition, remember Kaino missed a few tests due to injury and SOB has been a stand-out in this tournament IMO. Samo is in the same boat, pre-world cup he was great and probably the form 8-man but he's slowed down during the RWC and looks less dynamic. Being part of the winning S15 team will help his claim but there would be some competition from Parisse, Read and Heaslip. Carter is obviously the best 10 in the world, but would you say he is the best 10 of S15 or the WC so far? he's ever consistent but did sit out the Japan game and was out-played by Cooper during the S15 final. After these two would be daylight although Morne Steyn has been good this WC and Butch James was superb during the European competitions.

Nonu would also have a question mark next to him, yes he's been great for the AB's in the biggest tournament of the year but I feel he went missing during the S15, for such a dynamic player to get booted from his club team due to lack of form he would have to have others preferred over him (although I have no idea who, so you may be right). Clerc would give North a good run for his money, as too would Tuilagi, who's form for Samoa and his English club (forget whom, but watched their highlights a few times) has been great. His brother would also give Fourie a good run for his money based on club form.

 

[Lee Grant]

LG, you are right. It is a little too early to be picking a WC dream team,.

Too late I already started one because some people were talking about the whole year and others were thinking about just the RWC.

By all means keep this one going if you want to but the new thread pays regard only to play in the RWC. Play prior to 9/9/11 should not be taken into account.

 

[light]

Pre RWC. S15 + European Competitions + Tri-Nations + 6 Nations
1. Martin Castrogiovanni (Leicester Tigers + ITA)
2. Bismark du Plessis (Sharks + SAF)
3. Owen Franks (Crusaders + NZL)
4. James Horwill (Reds + AUS)
5. Bakkies Botha (Bulls + SAF)
6. Sean O'Brien (Leinster + IRE)
7. Sam Warburton (Cardiff + WAL)
8. Radike Samo (Reds + AUS)
9. Will Genia (Reds + AUS)
10. Dan Carter (Crusaders + NZL)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds + AUS)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (Crusaders + NZL)
13. Jaque Fourie (Stormers + SAF)
14. Alesana Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers + Samoa)
15.

Few questionable selections there, but I like it.

 

[Antony]

Castrogiovanni at least would be ahead of Roncero... Kaino would have some serious competition from O'Brien... Samo is in the same boat... Carter is obviously the best 10 in the world, but would you say he is the best 10 of S15 or the WC so far?

etc.

- Castro is a tighthead isn't he?
- I really think Kaino is the best backrower in the world at the moment; I'm sure people will disagree, but I don't think anyone is hitting as hard on offence or defence as he is. SOB would probably be next cab off the rank in that regard.
- Samo, I'll cop that, but he was brilliant before he started slowing down;
- I think Carter, for the first half of the Super 15 (so pre-injury) was in the best form he's been in since 2005. He's started to pick that up again lately, so I think he's done enough to get in a form 15 (particularly because the others have hardly been perfect either).
- And re: Nonu... his international form has been great. My take on it is that he and Hore got booted so that the Canes can build a team around Beauden Barrett. Let's start this thread up again in two years and my money says Barrett will be comfortably in there.
- North has scored a lot of tries. But tuilagi isn't a bad call.

 

[Brisbok]

etc.

- Castro is a tighthead isn't he?
- I really think Kaino is the best backrower in the world at the moment; I'm sure people will disagree, but I don't think anyone is hitting as hard on offence or defence as he is. SOB would probably be next cab off the rank in that regard.
- Samo, I'll cop that, but he was brilliant before he started slowing down;
- I think Carter, for the first half of the Super 15 (so pre-injury) was in the best form he's been in since 2005. He's started to pick that up again lately, so I think he's done enough to get in a form 15 (particularly because the others have hardly been perfect either).
- And re: Nonu... his international form has been great. My take on it is that he and Hore got booted so that the Canes can build a team around Beauden Barrett. Let's start this thread up again in two years and my money says Barrett will be comfortably in there.
- North has scored a lot of tries. But tuilagi isn't a bad call.

I may be biased, but I think if you include the Super 15, Schalk Burger was at least equal to and probably better than Kaino at blindside flank. His work rate both on defence and attack would have to be right up there with the best. Was injured in the Super 15 semi final, so didn't play any tests prior to the RWC, but he seems to be finding his way back to his best form in the early matches.

 

[potogold]

By the above criteria, for mine it's:

1. ? (Roncero? How was he for Stade this year?)
2. Bismarck
3. O Franks (but more for his 2011 Super form than the tests so far)
4. Horwill
5. O'Connell
6. Kaino (easily)
7. Warburton
8. Samo (won a super title and was huge in winning the tri-nations; surely that's enough)
9. Genia
10. Carter
11. Ioane
12. Nonu
13. Fourie
14. North
15. Paul Williams

at 7, i would take pocock/ mccaw/ warburton, probably pocock, i like him
at 6, i would EASILY take sean o brien over anyone, yes anyone, lol people saying haskell. i dont think ive ever seen o brien go backwards. ever.
at 8 i would take read, or o brien. im just going on shere dynanism and performances here. samo has not done enough. hes waay over rated i feel.

i dont understand why people are saying names who havnt played well at all. parisse and heaslip at 8 have not really performed this season.

 

[Country Kid]

Well, having just watched replays of todays afternoon games, some stand out (non tri nations) players worhy of consideration are:

Russia
9 - what would this guy be like behind a dominant forward pack
15 - great run to score

Ireland
O'Gara - hasn't put a foot wrong in the last two games
7 - super game

Scotland
both wingers

Argentina
the winger that scored winning try (pity about the dropped ball into touch)


As for Aussies..

Genia - the only certainty

Others such as Beale & Cooper are too inconsistent, flashes of brilliance mixed with poor decision making

 

[Antony]

Schalk Burger was at least equal to and probably better than Kaino at blindside flank.

I agree he was mental this year. Burger running always reminds me of that Brockhoff quote: 'go through them like a madman in a glass factory with a crowbar'. He just wants to hurt fools.

But I'm still a Kaino fan. Same impact, fewer penalties (I might be holding old-Schalk against now-Schalk though).

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Carter was outplayed by Cooper in the s15 final???

 

[light]

Correct me if I'm wrong but was Kaino playing at 8 for the Blues during their S15 campaign?

If so, it would make more sense that he was nominated for number 8 in this team, as it is pre-world cup.

Sean O'Brien on the other hand was voted ERC (European) Player of the Year for 2011 and part of the Leinster team that won the Heineken Cup, not to mention being voted Ireland's Player of the Year after a stellar 6 nations performance. That is a hard resume to go past.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Just going on the RWC
1. Castro
2. Bismark (though up for debate as he hasn't been starting)
3. Franks
4. Horwill (can see arguments against having him in)
5.O'Connell
6. Kaino - superb!
7. SOB/Warburton or McCaw - three very impressive players. If i had to pick one, i'd say McCaw just cause he's McCaw.
8. Parisse has been pretty impressive in a few losing efforts. I also like the look of Lobbe! Samo has been pretty poor this Cup in my opinion. I think if Palu is fit and figthing, Radike will lose his spot on current form.
9. Genia with du Preez nipping at his heals. Also think the Samoan 9 has looked excellent at times.
10 . Carter - no debate
11. With Ioane's injury, might have to look beyond him. Tommy Bowe for me
12. Nonu
13. Fourie
14. Tuilagi or North.
15. Dagg - surely Mils has lost his spot!

England have looked pretty ordinary up against good opposition so I'm hesitant to pick anyone from their team based on a few blow outs. France have looked shaky against Japan and Canada.
My bench would probably have a fair few argentinians on it....i'm looking at you felipe!