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2011 World XV

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Sir Arthur Higgins

Dick Tooth (41)
I'd have Shane Williams over Ioane. Williams can do so much more with so much less. Ioane needs space. Williams can score from a standstill encircled by the opposition.

When at full form, this year and nearly every other year BOD is a brilliant 13. but if the world XV is only on test players, he's been a bit off the pace this year so I'd give it to Smith of Fourie.

Full back would have to be Beale or Mils. I can't think of a contender from up north.

Mitchell won't get it given his limited tests this year. Manu is playing in the centres, what about A Tuilagi on the wing? he was a specimen against Aus and will do more of the same in September.

2nd row - Matfield MUST be in there. If that means horwill gets dropped to the bench then so be it. Matfield is the king of the set piece and handy around the park to boot!

I'd throw Kainoa at 6
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
An interesting 15, light. I would certainly argue with O'Driscoll: he hasn't been world team standard for a year at least.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
I'd have Shane Williams over Ioane. Williams can do so much more with so much less. Ioane needs space. Williams can score from a standstill encircled by the opposition.

Strange, i would argue that Ioane works much better in the tight then Williams, Williams is much better with space
 

Sir Arthur Higgins

Dick Tooth (41)
I haven't seen all of ioane's trys, but on the wing they always seem to come with a fair chunk of room to move. often in a two on one or from him running a great line off another player.

I tend to see Shane scoring out of tigher situations, jinking through a couple of players and then taking off.
 

Dumbledore

Dick Tooth (41)
1. Beast (SAF)
2. William Servat (FRA)
3. Nicholas Mas (FRA)
4. Bakkies Botha (SAF)
5. James Horwill (AUS)
6. Jerome Kaino (NZL)
7. Richie McCaw (NZL)
8. Kieran Read (NZL)
9. Will Genia (AUS)
10. Dan Carter (NZL)
11. Digby Ioane (AUS)
12. Ma'a Nonu (NZL)
13. Conrad Smith (NZL)
14. Chris Ashton (ENG)
15. Kurtley Beale (AUS)

I'd slot Mitchell in at 14 if he came back as well, so we aren't far off the five. With Read injured I'd probably take Heaslip, if Servat doesn't come back in the same sort of form then BDP. Maybe JOC (James O'Connor) over Ashton.
 

Bowside

Peter Johnson (47)
I'd have Shane Williams over Ioane. Williams can do so much more with so much less. Ioane needs space. Williams can score from a standstill encircled by the opposition.

I dont think this is correct about digby. He makes something of the ball he gets, regardless of how much space he has.

Shane Williams was a great player, but JOC (James O'Connor) (after only a handful of test matches on the wing) made him look average when the wallabies played Wales last year.
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Very true, we are forgetting the likes of Brian O'Driscoll, Toby Flood, Shane Williams, Andrew Sheridan, James Haskell, Manu Tuilagi.

I doubt many could argue with a centre pairing of O'Driscoll and Ma'a Nonu right now, safe to assume Dan Carter is still the best 10 in the world.

My Team and their closest contenders.
1. Tendai Mtawarira (SAF)/ Andrew Sheridan (ENG)
2. Stephen Moore (AUS)/ Bismark du Plessis (SAF)/ Kevin Mealamu (NZL)
3. Owen Franks (NZL)/ Martin Castrogiovanni (ARG)
4. James Horwill (AUS)/ Victor Matfield (SAF)/ Tom Croft (ENG)
5. Bakkies Botha (SAF)/ Brad Thorn (NZL)
6.
7. Richie McCaw (NZL)/ David Pocock (AUS)/ Dannie Brussow (SAF), James Haskell (ENG)
8. Jerome Kaino (NZL)/ Pierre Spies (SAF)
9. Will Genia (AUS)/ Fourie Du Preez (SAF)
10. Dan Carter (NZL)/ Butch James (SAF)/ Quade Cooper (AUS)/ Toby Flood (ENG)
11. Digby Ioane (AUS)/ Shane Williams (WAL)
12. Ma'a Nonu (NZL) / Jaque Fourie (SAF)
13. Brian O'Driscoll (IRE)/ Conrad Smith (NZL)
14. Manu Tuilagi (ENG)/ Drew Mitchell (AUS)
15. Kurtley Beale (AUS)/ Mils Muliaina (NZL)

Genia is a given, I wouldn't have Beale in my XV just yet as he hasn't been the shinning light of previous seasons. Certainly is still the front runner but will need to stand-up during the world cup. Manu Tuilagi has been the revelation of the English campaign, he moves players and makes barnstorming runs, showing ominous form but would make a wing spot in my XV, other wing spot would have to be between Ioane, Williams and a fit Mitchell. Argentina seem to have alot of strength in the outside backs so I'm expecting that spot to change abit come post world cup.

I'd say the toughest choices are in the forwards, can't pick a blindside and there would have to be another 3 or 4 contenders in the locks

You have Kaino at 8, he is a 6 so that would solve your problem
 

JimboJoe1006

Chris McKivat (8)
15 Beale
14 Mitchell
13 O'Driscoll
12 Nonu
11 Ashton
10 Carter
9 Genia
8 Parisse
7 McCaw (c)
6 Burger
5 Thorn
4 Matfield
3 Castrogiovanni
2 Bismarck du Plessis
1 Robinson
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Since this is a World XV, and not a list of world class players, which may or may not mean players that would be in a World XV or at least be seriously considered for it, we have to pick only the best in each position. As to what period - since we are picking them now and there were EOYTs all most a year ago and 6N and 3N since then, it should be over the last 12 months.

The only Australian who would be picked IMO is:
9. Will Genia.

Other LG picks:

No props would be chosen from Oz.

2. BdP would be picked by all South Africans (except PDiv) and also by most neutrals. I'd have him ahead of Moore too and Servat, who was still giving a lot of cheek in the last 3N.

4/5 All South Africans would pick Victor and most Europeans would pick POC. They wouldn't pick Horwill because he didn't play tests last year and has just come back to test rugby. He'd start in my team though.

Backrow - no Aussies starting. 7. Pocock would be behind both McCaw and Warburton; Brussouw has been hurt. 6. SOB is the best blindside flanker in Europe and even Burger would be ahead of Rocky though he didn't play 3N. No Oz 8 can be compared with Harinordoquy, though Parisse was even better in 6N. Read's in there too.

10. The contest is only for the backup spot.

12/13 Poor world class talent here, especially at 12 where its almost non existent - as it's the hardest position to play well. Although the Canes dropped Nonu he would get the nod at 12 world wide. Jamie Roberts has lost his mojo since the last Lions tour in either centre position.

13. BOD played hurt in 6N but the player of the decade still made those 6N teams that journalists justify their pay doing. His legs and neck may be a problem these days but his rugby brain is matchless. Nevertheless, I'd probably have Conrad Smith ahead of him at the minute.

Wingers. Ashton would be the standout in the last 12 months. I'd consider Diggers on the other side, but would probably go for Tommy Bowe.

Fullback: Foden had a terrific 6N - a top ball runner, setter up of wingers and surprising strong in the tackle, but Beale has a mystery he doesn't have. Against Beale is his propensity for low percentage passes and the odd mistake of coming out of the line - as he did at Eden Park. He'd just make my team.

So:

Definites - Will Genia

LG other picks - Horwill and Beale.

These discussions will be a bit silly after the RWC but it keeps us off the streets.
 
U

undercoverkiwi

Guest
Since this is a World XV, and not a list of world class players, which may or may not mean players that would be in a World XV or at least be seriously considered for it, we have to pick only the best in each position. As to what period - since we are picking them now and there were EOYTs all most a year ago and 6N and 3N since then, it should be over the last 12 months.

The only Australian who would be picked IMO is:
9. Will Genia.

Other LG picks:

So:

Definites - Will Genia

LG other picks - Horwill and Beale.

These discussions will be a bit silly after the RWC but it keeps us off the streets.

Pretty much spot on IMO, except I'd say Nonu is head and shouders at 12, although his unconventional style might count against him in a World XV.

Horwill would be behind Matfield, O'Connell, Thorn and Botha but with game time might well find himself starting.

I think Chris Ashton is hugely over-rated and would go for Drew Mitchell (if fit on 2010 form) and Tommy Bowe.
 

tigerland12

John Thornett (49)
No way is Pocock behind Warburton LG, yeh he's got talent but currently he is nowhere near the same league as McCaw,Pocock, Brussouw. I'd still have behind Dusatiour to be honest.
 
U

undercoverkiwi

Guest
No way is Pocock behind Warburton LG, yeh he's got talent but currently he is nowhere near the same league as McCaw,Pocock, Brussouw. I'd still have behind Dusatiour to be honest.

Pocock is behind Warburton, definitely. Pocock and Brussow are in a league of their own in terms of pure ball-stealing ability, but McCaw and Warburton add a lot more around the field and are leaders. Warburton captaining Wales at the age of 22 is no accident. The guy is going to be an immense player.
 

tigerland12

John Thornett (49)
Pocock is behind Warburton, definitely. Pocock and Brussow are in a league of their own in terms of pure ball-stealing ability, but McCaw and Warburton add a lot more around the field and are leaders. Warburton captaining Wales at the age of 22 is no accident. The guy is going to be an immense player.

Hmmmm, maybe it's my bias sneaking through, as I am a massive Pocock fan, but I don't think Warburton is uo there yet. I'm not doubting his ability, I think he will be a superstar at the WC, but right now I think it's too early to say if he's as good as Pocock and McCaw.
 
U

undercoverkiwi

Guest
Hmmmm, maybe it's my bias sneaking through, as I am a massive Pocock fan, but I don't think Warburton is uo there yet. I'm not doubting his ability, I think he will be a superstar at the WC, but right now I think it's too early to say if he's as good as Pocock and McCaw.

I'm a massive Pocock fan, the guy is a freak. I freely admit he (and Brussow) are better at ball-stealing but think both need to add a bit more to their games. Warburton against England the other week was scary good.
 

tigerland12

John Thornett (49)
Not looking to cause a shit fight but me thinks some supporters are getting a little carried away with the superiority of there own players.

Not really, people are putting forward their perspectives, but no one is going on with it. Nothing wrong with people disagreeing, just aslong as they don't continue to argure their point
 
U

Utility Back

Guest
Not looking to cause a shit fight but me thinks some supporters are getting a little carried away with the superiority of there own players.

Is that because you think there should be more South Africans in there?
:fishing ;)
 
B

Braveheart.

Guest
I think it's reasonably telling that Genua and Carter are just about the only players that are automatically selected in everyone's XV.
 

light

Peter Fenwicke (45)
I'm sure it's been said before, but individuals don't win world cups. Australia may not have 5 World XV players, but I doubt any team could lay claim to having a stronger XV, maybe the All Blecks. What Australia does have is talent across the park, that if they work cohesively can beat any team on their day regardless of the individuals.

I'd like to think our only weakness is our centre pairing which we are in the process of figuring out now, come the final or semi's I'm sure we will have more than the two or so World XV players we have now.

Possible World XV players post RWC:
Kepu - Growing each game, has high work rate and is establishing himself as a world class prop.
Moore - Contender already, very consistent and will lay claim to a World XV spot if he can remain our starter over TPN whilst the Boks persist with Smit.
Horwill - Establishing himself as a premier lock, does all the essentials right and has tremendous leadership skills.
Elsom - Slowly climbing back to the lofty heights we saw him at a few years back.
Pocock - Has some real competition for the #7 jersey but is part of a growing pack and has been highly influential. Possesses leadership qualities too.
Samo - Abit past it in age but is in red-hot form and completely outplayed the entire Kiwi backrow last week. RWC will be his last international tournament I imagine, so expect him to go out with a bang.
Cooper - The key weapon to one of the most lethal backlines in world rugby, if he can keep level-headed throughout and show composure in vital moments he will establish himself as the world class 10 that we all want him to be.
Ioane - Has lit the world on fire in the past 4 months and will no doubt be a starter for the Wallabies come finals time. Has unpredictability, speed and agility combined with the ability to read Coopers mind
Ashley Cooper - Starting to show ominous signs, still abit away from where we want him but has the potential and is starting to hit his straps. Dilemma is where to play him in the Aussie backline as he continually proves us wrong no matter where we put him.
Mitchell - A world class winger before his injury, looked good for the Baa Baa's and will be a key weapon for the wallabies. Possesses all the attributes you could ever need in a winger.
Barnes - If fit, I would consider him a vital cog in the Australian armour. Adds utility value and posses terrific attributes to come off the bench and play any position or game plan.
O'Connor - Admittedly, not even I know where to fit him in our backline but have to admit he possesses attributes that are invaluable and he would make most international teams. Can cover practically any position and has the added skill of goal kicking.

Others.
Vickerman - Won't be making any World XV anytime soon but on his day is capable of derailing any world cup campaign. Hits the rucks hard and is a wrecking bull who opponents fear.
Sharpe - Has experience but has fallen out of favour with Deans. I still rate him and wouldn't be worried with him holding down a lock spot in our starting XV. Has ability to change games and good line-out calling.
Slipper - Slowly improving and has the potential to match most props in the world. Will need a strong campaign to get near a World XV spot however.
Robinson - The Prop. With him I have no doubt that the Australia scrum can hold their own. Big loss but is still a heavily influential player and will be on the plane over to help his successors.
 
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