Wallabies v England November 1

[molman]

Just finished the game. Thought it was interesting that it took til like the 78min to start penalising England for offside. Find it staggering that they could be that accurate for nearly the whole game with rush d they employ

Always a little tricky to gauge how overtly they are with the TV camera angle, but sure looked to be a few occassions they should have been called out on.

A few of their players pushing things. Take a look a Maro's foot placement at almost every ruck/charge down attempt. Systematically offside and took a age for the ref to finally call him on it.

 

[TSR]

If you go back to that Fiji game when Mark Nawaqanitawase called for the high ball then pulled out. Carter Gordon copped the blame and was pulled because it looked like he wasn’t making an effort to contest in the air.
As for Tane Edmed, he’s got composure, but he’s not the answer. His game management and ability to identify and exploit attacking gaps are still off the mark. The Wallabies need three genuine flyhalves who can steer the game, control tempo, and bring variety in attack and at the moment, there’s no clear front-runner.
We’re also lacking aggression in attack, and that’s something both James O’Connor and Carter Gordon deliver. They take on the line, play direct, and force defenders to make decisions which is exactly the sort of intent we need to unlock space out wide.
I’m looking forward to seeing what Carter Gordon can offer over the next three games. If he’s given the freedom to play his natural game, he could easily remind everyone why he was rated so highly coming through. Schmidt’s plays seem to off our halfback. It’s because we don’t have a flyhalf that can control the attack.
It’s great to see Len Ikitau and Tom Hooper back in the mix. Their composure and work rate add balance and leadership across the park.

This may seem unfair - but when is the last time a 10 played well outside Jake Gordon.

To be really clear I assume Jake is doing exactly what Schmidt wants him to do and he is generally pretty good at it. Like all our halves he has his flaws but is clearly our best 9 right now. It would also be unfair to blame Jake for all the shortcomings of our current 10s and a 9 is always going to look worse behind a forward pack getting beaten.

But I’m not sure he has ever been a good half for a backline to play off and he doesn’t appear to help his 10. From memory 2 (or maybe 3) yrs ago there were a portion of Tahs fans calling for him to be benched because he was stifling the attack.

 

[stillmissit]

Man for man England just far better team.

Don't agree Major, I thought the poms were better organised than us. Their defence was very good and they looked to the wide channels more than we did. We are playing very tight and at one point the pass was sent to a group of 5 players.
Think we did well to hold them, our 2nd half lift, just didn't happen. Was surprised that we didn't win one of their lineouts.
McRight, Potter, Tupoa, Valetini, JAS and Pollard were my picks, and I thought Edmed had his best game apart from a couple of errors, a gutsy player, and it will be interesting to see what Larkham does with him.
Thought LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) should have come on earlier as both locks were average with Williams doing his '6' game, great same at one point.

Jorgensen rarely got the ball, don't know why.

 

[stillmissit]

I am bored with saying it, but when the F...k are we going to abandon this soft defence? The major reason we lost was their rush D shutting our attack down, and us letting them run.......

 

[Rugby110]

This may seem unfair - but when is the last time a 10 played well outside Jake Gordon.

To be really clear I assume Jake is doing exactly what Schmidt wants him to do and he is generally pretty good at it. Like all our halves he has his flaws but is clearly our best 9 right now. It would also be unfair to blame Jake for all the shortcomings of our current 10s and a 9 is always going to look worse behind a forward pack getting beaten.

But I’m not sure he has ever been a good half for a backline to play off and he doesn’t appear to help his 10. From memory 2 (or maybe 3) yrs ago there were a portion of Tahs fans calling for him to be benched because he was stifling the attack.

I would partly agree. At times I think Jake Gordon saves the day and other times the backline is disjointed. The conundrum is, we lack experience on the field when giving the fringe players a run. Ryan Lonergan is gun shy coming off the bench right now. Tate McDermott’s injury has taken us back a few pegs. For Italy it might be worth giving Ryan Lonergan a start with Carter Gordon and having Kalani Thomas on the bench.

 

[molman]

not edmed

Donaldson is realistically the only other option that was available for that game unless your calling in a Debreczeni who makes no sense to inject into the system at this stage.

Without being privy to the details there is obviously a clear reason why he (Donaldson) hasn't been called into the squad. I'm also unconvinced that Donaldson imposes much of a different outcome on that game.

JOC (James O'Connor) obviously becomes available moving forward.

 

[molman]

Don't agree Major, I thought the poms were better organised than us. Their defence was very good and they looked to the wide channels more than we did. We are playing very tight and at one point the pass was sent to a group of 5 players.
Think we did well to hold them, our 2nd half lift, just didn't happen. Was surprised that we didn't win one of their lineouts.
McRight, Potter, Tupoa, Valetini, JAS and Pollard were my picks, and I thought Edmed had his best game apart from a couple of errors, a gutsy player, and it will be interesting to see what Larkham does with him.
Thought LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) should have come on earlier as both locks were average with Williams doing his '6' game, great same at one point.

Jorgensen rarely got the ball, don't know why.

I wondered if they were going to manage his minutes as you've got to wonder if he's 100%

 

[Where's the beef]

We’re going to have to find ways to. Wright is going to be out for some time. So is McDermott. Skelton & Hooper won’t always be available. Ikitau’s contract is such that we don’t lose too much access to him - but we still don’t have him full time. Not sure how Angus Bell’s sabbatical will impact him.

I do think Schmidt has been pushed back to square 1 a bit from sticking with a set group of players and then losing a large number in a relatively short space of time. I think it was the right decision at the time - but now the cohesion that was built has been lost. If we look back to 4 months ago we’ve lost Slipper, Faessler, Skelton, Hooper, Tizzano missing for this game, McDermott, White, Lolesio, Lynagh, O’Connor, Ikitau and Wright plus guys like Gleeson, Porecki & BPA. It also looks to be Valetini is still getting back to his best after his injury problems. Wasn’t bad today at all - but still a reasonable step down from what we’ve been spoilt with over the last 2 yrs.

That’s a lot of testand a lot of playing time together stripped out in a short space of time including two of our best halves and our first two choice 10s. My hope is that the current pain will be rewarded by more depth across the board but clearly we have some way to go. We are missing a lot of punch in our forward pack and our attack has got narrower and less accurate.

On top of all that I still think our defence pattern lets us down and unless we can get better in the air we are going to continue to offer teams easy field position and possession.

Alot of truth here.

 

[Upthemaroon!]

I would partly agree. At times I think Jake Gordon saves the day and other times the backline is disjointed. The conundrum is, we lack experience on the field when giving the fringe players a run. Ryan Lonergan is gun shy coming off the bench right now. Tate McDermott’s injury has taken us back a few pegs. For Italy it might be worth giving Ryan Lonergan a start with Carter Gordon and having Kalani Thomas on the bench.

One would assume you get JOC (James O'Connor) on the field with Lonergan and get Gordon on with Gordon as replacements?

 

[Rugby110]

One would assume you get JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) on the field with Lonergan and get Gordon on with Gordon as replacements?

A Wallabies’ announcement today, Len Ikitau and Tom Hooper return to the squad, but no mention of James.

 

[TSR]

I would partly agree. At times I think Jake Gordon saves the day and other times the backline is disjointed. The conundrum is, we lack experience on the field when giving the fringe players a run. Ryan Lonergan is gun shy coming off the bench right now. Tate McDermott’s injury has taken us back a few pegs. For Italy it might be worth giving Ryan Lonergan a start with Carter Gordon and having Kalani Thomas on the bench.

That’s the problem isn’t it.

It’s easy to beat up in a 9 playing behind a beaten pack. But we don’t have a replacement ready to step up and I don’t know how much Edmed is talking outside him. I don’t know why Lonergan was overlooked for so long but maybe the timing is just right for him to become first choice by World Cup or maybe they will quickly move past him to guys coming through like Teddy Wilson.

I’m not convinced Thomas is the answer - but this tour does present him an enormous opportunity. He seems to have the talent. Not 100% sure he has the mindset.

 

[Major Tom]

This may seem unfair - but when is the last time a 10 played well outside Jake Gordon.

To be really clear I assume Jake is doing exactly what Schmidt wants him to do and he is generally pretty good at it. Like all our halves he has his flaws but is clearly our best 9 right now. It would also be unfair to blame Jake for all the shortcomings of our current 10s and a 9 is always going to look worse behind a forward pack getting beaten.

But I’m not sure he has ever been a good half for a backline to play off and he doesn’t appear to help his 10. From memory 2 (or maybe 3) yrs ago there were a portion of Tahs fans calling for him to be benched because he was stifling the attack.

I understand the tactic to make sure you get tackled inside the 22 but the slow motion / stationary ball carrying to set it up doesn’t feel like a positive tactic to me. Looks shit and it can’t exactly feel good losing the collision zone.

 

[stillmissit]

I'm not sure why I'm bothering here because nothing I say will change your mind, but the laws say nothing about standing up

He has to be tackled.

 

[Rugby110]

That’s the problem isn’t it.

It’s easy to beat up in a 9 playing behind a beaten pack. But we don’t have a replacement ready to step up and I don’t know how much Edmed is talking outside him. I don’t know why Lonergan was overlooked for so long but maybe the timing is just right for him to become first choice by World Cup or maybe they will quickly move past him to guys coming through like Teddy Wilson.

I’m not convinced Thomas is the answer - but this tour does present him an enormous opportunity. He seems to have the talent. Not 100% sure he has the mindset.

In Australia we love to beat up our halves and move them along after an inconsistent game. Schmidt will deliver his selections and most likely not the obvious first choice with Ireland coming up. Kalani Thomas not my pick but Gordon needs a rest against Italy.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'm not sure why I'm bothering here because nothing I say will change your mind, but the laws say nothing about standing up

I believe the Law says a player must regain their feet before playing on. If that's not standing uip, then I'm sadly mistaken.

 

[TSR]

I understand the tactic to make sure you get tackled inside the 22 but the slow motion / stationary ball carrying to set it up doesn’t feel like a positive tactic to me. Looks shit and it can’t exactly feel good losing the collision zone.

I don’t think that’s really on Gordon though. All of the halves do that.

I think the comparison for me is his ball off the ground.

Nic White copped a lot of criticism for being kick happy. But when he attacked his pass from the ground was sharp, accurate and had width and could bring wider players into the game.

McDermott cops criticism because his pass can be erratic and loopy but he gets the ball moving quickly and engages defenders around the break down and generally gets the team in the front foot. It helps his forwards and it takes some heat off his 10.

Gordon doesn’t really do any of those things. His passing isn’t bad but it isn’t top line either and he can be slow to clear it. His running game is okay - but nothing above average for a top level 9.

 

[stillmissit]

I believe the Law says a player must regain their feet before playing on. If that's not standing uip, then I'm sadly mistaken.

That is AFTER a tackle, the the rules states, the tackled player must release the ball before getting to his feet and playing.

 

[Red Runner]

Interesting only Hooper and Len have been added to the squad for Italy. Holding Skelton back for the last two tests and just moving on from JOC (James O'Connor)?

 

[Major Tom]

I don’t think that’s really on Gordon though. All of the halves do that.

I think the comparison for me is his ball off the ground.

Nic White copped a lot of criticism for being kick happy. But when he attacked his pass from the ground was sharp, accurate and had width and could bring wider players into the game.

McDermott cops criticism because his pass can be erratic and loopy but he gets the ball moving quickly and engages defenders around the break down and generally gets the team in the front foot. It helps his forwards and it takes some heat off his 10.

Gordon doesn’t really do any of those things. His passing isn’t bad but it isn’t top line either and he can be slow to clear it. His running game is okay - but nothing above average for a top level 9.

Yeah I’m not blaming Gordon on that just an overall observation. Probably my bad for tagging it on the Gordon chat.

 

[stillmissit]

I don’t think that’s really on Gordon though. All of the halves do that.

I think the comparison for me is his ball off the ground.

Nic White copped a lot of criticism for being kick happy. But when he attacked his pass from the ground was sharp, accurate and had width and could bring wider players into the game.

McDermott cops criticism because his pass can be erratic and loopy but he gets the ball moving quickly and engages defenders around the break down and generally gets the team in the front foot. It helps his forwards and it takes some heat off his 10.

Gordon doesn’t really do any of those things. His passing isn’t bad but it isn’t top line either and he can be slow to clear it. His running game is okay - but nothing above average for a top level 9.

TSR, all halves have a tough game when the pack is being beaten or there is no L.Q.B. We had both of those things happening at times. I am no fan .of Gordon because I like quick 9's who keep the game speed up, it's a pity about Tate's pass.