CAS Rugby 2025

[OleMan]

Good question, I believe it's just for rugby. The first line of the official statement is " The General Committee of the Associated Schools of NSW (CAS) and the Board of the Independent Sporting Association (ISA) wish to announce that there will be a new competition format for the 2025 Rugby season."

 

[moa999]

Other question mark is what happens to the 3rds and Bs down.
I assume they also play the alternate schools with the usual adjustments for depth.

 

[DaSchmooze]

yes you'd think so. From C grade onwards it's a bit of a lottery as to who you get. Probably a case of whoever is free that weekend. I know the league tables in ISA stretch down as far as the schools have teams to fill them - sometimes even if it's only two or three.

 

[OleMan]

That's my understanding.
You can image how hard it would be for the Head of Rugby at schools like Auggies and Oakhill to make sure their E & F grade teams get games. They'd be sending teams all over the city

 

[DaSchmooze]

Yes agreed. Although I suspect when it comes to these teams, all Sports Masters take their GPS/ISA/CAS goggles off and just try and find like for like competition.

 

[Snort1]

IS this just for Rugby or all Winter sports?

Only Rugby I believe. Rugby has unique challenges at school level because of the safety implications that arise when physical mismatches occur.

 

[Ziggy]

100% only rugby

 

[Mule]

Do they run an U16 CAS team or just opens?

yes here was last years: http://www.cas.nsw.edu.au/cas-u16s-rugby-team-announced/

 

[WLF3]

Big fan. Well done all for doing something and not just taking shots at the GPS for going 2 rounds which overall has been a success for that comp and I don't see it changing.

This is a boost for all Schools Rugby in NSW. Shouldn't say all because I want to see CHS get back to a degree of competitiveness but this a good step.

GoR, I have had about a dozen cousins go through View, and 2 nephews there right now, who both play rugby, saw them play Joeys.
I don't think/hope it's not just a case at taking shots at the GPS comp, and we all know you all love your own little home and away comp, but it is and will remain a comp of just 6 schools. We all get the history, but if the plan is to really develop rugby, like NZ, it needs to have a tiered comp.
That doesn't mean you can't play and win your own comp within this framework but home and away and nothing else is living in a bubble.

 

[WLF3]

Details of the new competition format are here: http://www.cas.nsw.edu.au/cas-announcement-on-combined-rugby-competition-for-2025/

Congratulations to the schools involved for doing something proactive and long overdue!

Mr Snort, by absolute chance, I ran into a Cricket CAS selector at QP who was the driver of this all, it took him many years to work out a plan and put it forward to all the heads. He asked me what I thought, and I told him that I, and MANY/MOST school rugby fans are in absolute favor, he was very happy to hear this feedback, Can't wait for it to see it all happen.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

GoR, I have had about a dozen cousins go through View, and 2 nephews there right now, who both play rugby, saw them play Joeys.
I don't think/hope it's not just a case at taking shots at the GPS comp, and we all know you all love your own little home and away comp, but it is and will remain a comp of just 6 schools. We all get the history, but if the plan is to really develop rugby, like NZ, it needs to have a tiered comp.
That doesn't mean you can't play and win your own comp within this framework but home and away and nothing else is living in a bubble.

That's a fair point but the GPS could also argue on the form of the last couple of years the standard and general equality across the comp has lead to a very high standard of Rugby every week. I get the initial argument that a fully tiered comp creates game of equal opposition but you can also see a comp a few years down the track that the higher tiers separate themselves in quality so much you have recreated what already exists...

The plan also isn't to develop Rugby necessarily but a competition for the Schools to participate. The fact a lot of professional players come out of it is a nice by-product but the they don't play on the bequest of the NSWRU or RA. In reality these comps take a financial load off Rugby in Aus that they could not afford to maintain otherwise.

I was never making this a good riddince leave the GPS alone post initally. I like this move for the CAS/ISA overall. Will be interesting to see what happens if say Oakhill and Auggies show up and kill it. Besides all those players ending up elsewhere I don't think some of the old heads would like it too much. It's happened before a couple decades ago.

 

[OleMan]

I get the initial argument that a fully tiered comp creates game of equal opposition but you can also see a comp a few years down the track that the higher tiers separate themselves in quality so much you have recreated what already exists...

That’s a great point. In a fully tiered competition, you could also argue there may be more 'music' scholarships being offered by CAS/GPS schools to maintain their place in Tier 1. Who knows, some ISA schools might even start offering bursaries. This would definitely create a gap between the two tiers.

On the flip side, that’s exactly the goal. Ensuring the strongest teams compete against each other every week while the less dominant teams face similarly matched opponents. After all, no one benefits from a 50-0 blowout.

 

[WLF3]

That's a fair point but the GPS could also argue on the form of the last couple of years the standard and general equality across the comp has lead to a very high standard of Rugby every week. I get the initial argument that a fully tiered comp creates game of equal opposition but you can also see a comp a few years down the track that the higher tiers separate themselves in quality so much you have recreated what already exists...

The plan also isn't to develop Rugby necessarily but a competition for the Schools to participate. The fact a lot of professional players come out of it is a nice by-product but the they don't play on the bequest of the NSWRU or RA. In reality these comps take a financial load off Rugby in Aus that they could not afford to maintain otherwise.

I was never making this a good riddince leave the GPS alone post initally. I like this move for the CAS/ISA overall. Will be interesting to see what happens if say Oakhill and Auggies show up and kill it. Besides all those players ending up elsewhere I don't think some of the old heads would like it too much. It's happened before a couple decades ago.

You make some good points. I do think Auggies and Oakhill will do very well. The GPS comp was terrific this year as Shore rose from the ashes but that's only 1 year. My point is that the GPS comp could still be played out in a tiered system, so nothing lost, albeit a 1 round comp, which for the vast majority of history has been played that way. Anyway it's all hypothetical as it won't happen.

I guess my wish, and others, was to see all schools play in their relevant tier and be tested against all the best other schools at that level.

 

[DaSchmooze]

I like this move for the CAS/ISA overall. Will be interesting to see what happens if say Oakhill and Auggies show up and kill it. Besides all those players ending up elsewhere I don't think some of the old heads would like it too much. It's happened before a couple decades ago.

This is the great unknown hey. Imagine a scenario where Auggies wins, Oakhill runners up and let's say Stannies (based upon last year's results) come 4th. My big concern is that will be the end of the pragmatism and we'll see a hasty retreat to "pre-war" borders.

There are a multitude of opinions on the following and I'm not challenging any of them other than to say one of the reasons Pat's and Pius where ditched from the briefly expanded CAS was they were a bit too competitive in Rugby and Cricket I hate to think cynically but you can only wonder.

It's going to be fascinating one way or the other.

 

[hyaaa]

UPDATE ON BARKER COLLEGE:
William Hargraeves from the College of Barker has sustained a knee injury after trying to perform a backflip infront of the huzz.

yes I've heard this news quite devastating for the team, has already been out of training for quite some time.

 

[WLF3]

This is the great unknown hey. Imagine a scenario where Auggies wins, Oakhill runners up and let's say Stannies (based upon last year's results) come 4th. My big concern is that will be the end of the pragmatism and we'll see a hasty retreat to "pre-war" borders.

There are a multitude of opinions on the following and I'm not challenging any of them other than to say one of the reasons Pat's and Pius where ditched from the briefly expanded CAS was they were a bit too competitive in Rugby and Cricket I hate to think cynically but you can only wonder.

It's going to be fascinating one way or the other.

Slight correction DaS, Pats and Pius were never part of the CAS comp in any sport, so they weren't ditched. There was a vote once between the CAS schools to include at least Pats (to the best of my knowledge) but it was knocked back as 1 school voted against it, and it had to be unanimous. They were played a few times in the middle of the CAS comp but they were "trial" matches.

 

[moa999]

other than to say one of the reasons Pat's and Pius where ditched from the briefly expanded CAS was they were a bit too competitive in Rugby and Cricket

Not sure about that.. there's an old thread somewhere here that contains comments from the era. (Presumably with an earlier WLF account commenting)

Pats and Pius afaik were guests in the CAS rugby comp from 1978-83 and played a few other sports but not all. Boys also weren't eligible for CAS selection.
Pats were competitive, Pius less so, but even over that six year period only Pius would have one joint premiership in 78 (at the time there was no official Premiership, CAS have subsequently calculated winners based on excluding Pats and Pius). And that thread has some debate about what boys were/ weren't aware of at the time re the championship.

Believe they were invited after another competition (TCS) fell over, and left back into a catholic comp that ultimately merged into today's ISA

 

[DaSchmooze]

Slight correction DaS, Pats and Pius were never part of the CAS comp in any sport, so they weren't ditched. There was a vote once between the CAS schools to include at least Pats (to the best of my knowledge) but it was knocked back as 1 school voted against it, and it had to be unanimous. They were played a few times in the middle of the CAS comp but they were "trial" matches.

Yyyyyyyyyep. And every school has pointed to every other school as the culprit for that one vote.

Anyway. It's in the past but living in the aftermath of that vote wasn't fun.

I just hope that should it come to pass that if isa has a year or number of years where they dominate that we don't get a similar "we've put it to a vote" bullshit and the whole thing comes crashing down. It would be a backward step.

 

[red son]

Just to add to what happened in CAS 1978-1983.
The official wording was that:
"Between 1978-1983, St Patrick's College, Strathfield (SPC) and St Pius X College, Chatswood (SPX) took part in the CAS "rugby programme" although not members of the association." CAS in those years ran a 7 round draw.
SPC and SPX finished as follows in those years.
1978 SPX and SPC finished joint first with Knox.
1979 SPC was 3rd, SPX was 8th (last).
1980 SPC was 4th, SPX was 8th.
1981 SPC was 5th, SPX was 6th.
1982 SPC was 4th, SPX was 5th.
1983 SPX was 7th (second last), SPC was 8th (last).

 

[DaSchmooze]

You need to move on mate!

My 3 oldest brother are Pat's boys, I went to Waverley. Have a deep respect for both schools. My brother played Pat's for the 80-81 teams. Drew 7-7 all in 80 against Waves, and then get smashed 34-7 in 81 on the SCG before the test match - Waves had Kava and the Bourke brothers in that team (no disgrace in that result). Similar result in 83 to Waverley.

I was told by St. Pats people the reason they weren't invited into the CAS was because Barker didn't want to play 2 extra games as that would impact the HSC. I have no idea if that's true but that's what St. Pat's people were saying at the time.

But the good thing about St Pats not being accepted is that they created the ISA. The success of the ISA today isn't because of what Auggies and Oakhill are doing now but the ground work Pat's done in the 90s and 2000s to make that competition what it. If St. Pats were accepted into the CAS back then, I doubt there would be on ISA today. So it's turned out great for school rugby.

Finally, I don't get the angst against CAS schools. Waves have been playing Auggies since 2008, and before that they've always played St Pats up until the 2012 (should still be playing them). Same with Trinity, Knox and Barker against other ISA schools. The GPS schools have barely given you the time of day. I don't get the grudge.

Yes you're spot on with the outcome being the formation of ISA and I'd take it a step further and say that without it, you probably wouldn't have seen the development of Greg's, Oakhill and Auggies and it may have spelt the end of Pius. Speculation of course but its unquestionably a good outcome.

And by no means am I suggesting that our Rugby experience was a poor one. Being without a competition to play in, meant that we were free to arrange games against anyone and that had it's upside. Trips to Bowral, Goulburn and Bathurst to play Chev, Pats Goulburn (RIP) and Stannies/Scots were fun in their own right - no doubt. But listening to the litany of reasons as to why the vote didn't go our way was tough going - particularly with the spectre of sectarianism still bubbling just beneath the surface. With the exception of Cricket, we did all of our sport against CAS schools - so why cant we be in the comp?

Anyway - as I said... it is well in the past and sooking about it won't change a thing. But my point of all of this is that I hope this new system remains in place. It seems to have broad support which is great and I hope it continues. But I fear for what might happen when schools that don't offer scholarships and have lower fees start beating teams that do.