The Israel Folau saga

[Rugbynutter39]

Gees I wish Alan Jones would go away and find some other issue to comment on - as he reckons broader Australia is behind IF and his right to do what he did. I certainly not getting that view from general person on the street.

Alan Jones as a mouthpiece does nothing for rugby and really wish he would just shut up.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

With no repercussions, correct.

His religious beliefs don't give him the right to vilify others with no consequences.

But certain other contrary beliefs are somehow sacrosanct?

 

[Highlander35]

But certain other contrary beliefs are somehow sacrosanct?

Such as?

 

[Slim 293]

But certain other contrary beliefs are somehow sacrosanct?

What are these other contrary beliefs?

 

[Strewthcobber]

Gees I wish Alan Jones would go away and find some other issue to comment on - as he reckons broader Australia is behind IF and his right to do what he did. I certainly not getting that view from general person on the street.

Alan Jones as a mouthpiece does nothing for rugby and really wish he would just shut up.

AJ has a fairly big personal stake in protecting individuals from the consequences of speaking out of line with their organisation

 

[The Honey Badger]

I wouldn't be surprised if that is RA's first port of call. Suspend Folau for the rest of the Super Rugby season. Send him to be invovled with the Gay community, attend AA meetings etc and allow him to see first hand what it's like. Send him to club land until the Rugby Championship and see if he shows any remorse.

But that's if Folau's tears aren't crocodile ones and that he has a genuine desire to play for his country.

I hope so, Uni need him. In very unfamiliar territory at 3 loses after 5 rounds

 

[Derpus]

All these suggestions to "cure" Folau and lead him onto the "right" path .!? Enlighten him and teach him a lesson.

It sounds like the "cures" prescribed for gay people from the good old dark days.

Let's cure him if his anti social evil beliefs. He's not fitting into our modern society!

You cant cure him of his faith and religious beliefs and he'd probably say God's pulling his strings; not anyone from his church.

He may not feel like a leper who needs healing to appease members of society.

Maybe he's had extensive experience dealing with all sorts of people from within our society. I'm not sure of his hustory; whether he was a knock around bloke.

He wont renounce his beliefs.
As far as remorse and compassion are concerned, read the article he wrote again.

Who knows what will unfold from here on in. It might be settled early or it could be the start of a lengthy legal process.

Who said this?

Its not about what he believes and if you still think that you haven't been paying attention to anything. It's about what he says.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

What are these other contrary beliefs?

Take your pick.

 

[KOB1987]

I do find it odd that he has left the post up on Instagram, as it's seemingly contrary to showing any remorse and you would think that would be cornerstone to any defence of his case. So I wonder if he was advised to to provide context, he has written 3 passages beneath the offending image, and in one of them mentions all of the other groups from the images and many more, but not homosexuals. I.e. in his own writings he doesn't actually mention homosexuals.

Anyway, I'm going to jump out of here, speculating on the outcome won't affect it, I'm in favour of a big sanction but not dismissal as I think it opens up too big a can of worms and will ultimately do more harm than good.

 

[Derpus]

Take your pick.

Is the contrary belief 'All gays are going to heaven'?

I don't think that belief would be sacrosanct but it's clearly not saying bad things are going to happen to a group of people because of 'x' trait, so it wouldn't appear to be negatively discriminatory.

 

[Slim 293]

Take your pick.

Such as?

 

[Highlander35]

Take your pick.

Humour me. I have a goldfish memory.

 

[sidelineview]

Who said this?

Its not about what he believes and if you still think that you haven't been paying attention to anything. It's about what he says.

What he says is what he believes.

 

[Derpus]

What he says is what he believes.

Yeah but he can't say it (in public) he can only believe it.

It's not rocket surgery.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

I'm sure their are loads of contrary opinions out there. I'm sure you intelligent peeps can find a few & weigh them on the scales of bigotry to find the true answer.

When you get there please tell me so I can be enlightened.

 

[Set piece magic]

A recent focus group of 800 (so statistically significant) showed 48% oppose firing him, 40% for and 12% undecided. Published in the oz

Given the first value of Australia is that power and morality stems from the people, not from the state or from higher powers

Shouldn't Rugby Australia reflect these values, and reflect the attitudes of the Australian people (not just antidemocratic Qantas)

Which clearly are in favour of condemning the comments, fining him, but not firing him

After all, this whole saga is about values

 

[Derpus]

A recent focus group of 800 (so statistically significant) showed 48% oppose firing him, 40% for and 12% undecided. Published in the oz

Given the first value of Australia is that power and morality stems from the people, not from the state or from higher powers

Shouldn't Rugby Australia reflect these values, and reflect the attitudes of the Australian people (not just antidemocratic Qantas)

Which clearly are in favour of condemning the comments, fining him, but not firing him

After all, this whole saga is about values

Nah it's about breaching a code of conduct.

I assume they have guidelines for the appropriate punishment in the case of a second offence. They should follow their guidelines, not some online poll.

 

[Strewthcobber]

A recent focus group of 800 (so statistically significant) showed 48% oppose firing him, 40% for and 12% undecided. Published in the oz

Given the first value of Australia is that power and morality stems from the people, not from the state or from higher powers

Shouldn't Rugby Australia reflect these values, and reflect the attitudes of the Australian people (not just antidemocratic Qantas)

Which clearly are in favour of condemning the comments, fining him, but not firing him

After all, this whole saga is about values

This ain't a democracy. It doesn't even have anything to do with government or the state.

If nothing else, hopefully this helps a few people in society realise what their obligations to the employer actually are, and maybe a few will even read their own terms of employment.

 

[Set piece magic]

This focus group was scientifically conducted included a stratified sample (weighted) so to dismiss it prima facie is a weak strawman argument

Your argument is also legalistic, you say its because he breached the code of conduct

I say the poll shows what the code of conduct of a community organisation ought to be

It's not good enough for Rugby Australia to say oh these are the rules - your rules ought to reflect the communities values, particularly if its a code of conduct which is allegedly all about the community and Rugby AU's place in it

Something your argument deliberately neglected

So basically this shows Rugby AU is anti-democratic and out of touch with the moral values of our society

 

[Set piece magic]

This ain't a democracy. It doesn't even have anything to do with government or the state.



If nothing else, hopefully this helps a few people in society realise what their obligations to the employer actually are, and maybe a few will even read their own terms of employment.

Rugby AU as a community organisation should reflect the values of the community​

If Rugby AU really is proudly so anti-democratic it should rebrand as Rugby Politbureau or something

This is not about their right to make a code of conduct

It's what that code of conduct ought to be