Yellow Cards and Gold Jerseys

[tragic]

In all honesty, you are pretty much right. The problem for me is the yellow cards are a sign of a wider problem. So whilst the yellow cards are mostly from poor technique, they fit the perception of grub behaviour. Things like Hooper throwing sand in the face during a scrum, Phipps throwing a boot into the crowd, the off the ball shoulders and late tackles, general niggle and whining to the ref during the game and the coach whining about the ref after the game. It just seems as the team on the field is following the coaches behaviour off the field. So whilst the yellow cards maybe technique related, they fit the perception of grubby and niggley behaviour, and perception is reality.

Still not convinced. Phipps was just being a twat. Hooper didn't throw sand - alternate camera angles proved it. The "shoulder charges" were all marginal and from players like Izzy and DHP who are not dirty players - the timing was slightly off and the use of arms borderline but that is all technique related.
I agree there is stupid niggle creeping into the Wallabies game and I don't like it either.
But I think the yellow cards are a separate and unrelated issue.
- mainly discipline and technique. And whilst that does come back to coaching, it is not necessarily the behaviour of the coach himself.

 

[wamberal]

But I think the yellow cards are a separate and unrelated issue.
- mainly discipline and technique. And whilst that does come back to coaching, it is not necessarily the behaviour of the coach himself.

Maybe you're right. But remember that the playing group spends a helluva lot of time in the coach's company, on and off the field.


The coach's personality, his attitudes towards life in general and the game in particular, his ability to control his emotions, and so on must have an effect on the playing group.


As a person, Chubby is not exactly cool, calm, and collected. As a player he was a thug.


Put it all together, do you really think that his behaviour has no effect on the team?

 

[Scoey]

DHP's card in the England game really got under my skin. It was totally borne of 2 things and neither had anything to do with Dane.

1. Mike Brown forgetting what shaped ball he was playing with and taking a Sanchez-esque dive. Then continuing with the flopping around on the ground until time was off.

2. The home broadcaster playing replay after replay after fucking replay of the incident in super slo-mo (exaggerating how late it was by a factor of about 10) until the referee and/or the TMO had no choice but to review it.

The thing that galls me the most though was that in the two rucks prior to that, Hooper was upended and completely inverted then flipped over, in a clean out (the very same thing that saw Mumm binned against the Irish and then cited) and then in the ruck immediately before Mike Brown's flop saw Pocock neck rolled out of ruck quite aggressively. This is yellow carded every single time it's detected. The home broadcaster didn't do a single replay of either incident.

I don't doubt we have a discipline problem but stuff like this doesn't help

 

[Pfitzy]

The thing that galls me the most though was that in the two rucks prior to that, Hooper was upended and completely inverted then flipped over, in a clean out

This one?

I don't doubt we have a discipline problem but stuff like this doesn't help

I suppose that might be the problem though - if we keep doing stupid things, we get punish for doing nearly-stupid things.

 

[Scoey]

I suppose that might be the problem though - if we keep doing stupid things, we get punish for doing nearly-stupid things.

Bingo Pfitzy. The biggest problem for me moving forward is similar to our perceived scrum problems. For years we complained (and still do at times) about our scrum being refereed on reputation over fact. We are very quickly establishing ourselves as a team that oversteps the laws frequently. We'll be paying for this for years to come.

On Hooper getting upended, Moore even asked Peyper to have a look at the incident and from what I could hear he said (paraphrasing) he saw it and it was fine.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

ran "Hooper Savea sand" through google images and there's only one pic. This one:

"Sir, number 2 is not releasing!"

 

[tragic]

Maybe you're right. But remember that the playing group spends a helluva lot of time in the coach's company, on and off the field.


The coach's personality, his attitudes towards life in general and the game in particular, his ability to control his emotions, and so on must have an effect on the playing group.


As a person, Chubby is not exactly cool, calm, and collected. As a player he was a thug.


Put it all together, do you really think that his behaviour has no effect on the team?

I think his behaviour has a major effect on the team - mainly the niggly shit that's creeping into their game.
Just not the yellow cards.
I don't think there's been one for grub acts or thuggery. It's all been technique, borderline calls, or repeat infringements in the red zone.
I'm not a big fan of Cheika - I think he's done a lot wrong this season.
But to blame the yellows on his behaviour is a long bow.
That is all..

 

[gel]

ran "Hooper Savea sand" through google images and there's only one pic. This one:

"Sir, number 2 is not releasing!"

I enjoy that video so much - defines Hooper so aptly in just 30 seconds.

 

[USARugger]

I enjoy that video so much - defines Hooper so aptly in just 30 seconds.

Elaborate

 

[gel]

Elaborate

He's acts like a jerk a lot.

He starts some shit that he can't cope with - and is called out on it - and as soon as the official turns up he turns around and acts all brave again. Classic.

I don't enjoy watching him play, because no matter how he plays the ball, he undoes it all with his all round behaviour (this sort of crap).

The tackle was good and everything after was bad.

*edit* and I love seeing the kiwis giving him the respect that behaviour deserves: I.e. None whatsoever.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

He's acts like a jerk a lot.

He starts some shit that he can't cope with - and is called out on it - and as soon as the official turns up he turns around and acts all brave again. Classic.

I don't enjoy watching him play, because no matter how he plays the ball, he undoes it all with his all round behaviour (this sort of crap).

The tackle was good and everything after was bad.

*edit* and I love seeing the kiwis giving him the respect that behaviour deserves: I.e. None whatsoever.

 

[Forcefield]

I enjoy that video so much - defines Hooper so aptly in just 30 seconds.

Funny. I am not an enormous fan of Hooper. I think there should be no Pooper and Hooper should have been retrained as a back long ago. But...

We don't know the context to that. Coles pulled a swinging arm to the head into a ruck earlier in the year. I doubt that is an isolated event. What Hooper does is fairly innocuous and he keeps his cool when Coles and Retallick give him a serve. We see All Blacks pulling off that kind of stuff all the time- they are just far better at it and far more discreet.

I think Hooper does a good job of standing tall against Coles and Retallick and taking it like a man. I reckon a guy like Moore would have kept up the niggle.

 

[Micheal]

Funny. I am not an enormous fan of Hooper. I think there should be no Pooper and Hooper should have been retrained as a back long ago. But.

We don't know the context to that. Coles pulled a swinging arm to the head into a ruck earlier in the year. I doubt that is an isolated event. What Hooper does is fairly innocuous and he keeps his cool when Coles and Retallick give him a serve. We see All Blacks pulling off that kind of stuff all the time- they are just far better at it and far more discreet.

I think Hooper does a good job of standing tall against Coles and Retallick and taking it like a man. I reckon a guy like Moore would have kept up the niggle.

I largely agree with you, although I love Hooper.

But all he did in that scenario was making a great tackle and then let Coles know about it with a simple push when he got up.

We see dozens of players from all countries engage in that type of behaviour. Its simply an attempt to assert some personal mental dominance.

He then doesn't react to Brodie and Coles when they return the favour.

If that makes him a grub then the following players are grubs as well as they've all done similar throughout their career (e.g. head rubs / pats / pushes after the tackle):

- Burger, Etzebeth, du Toit, Poitgeiter, Bismarck du Plessis, de Jäger etc.
- Cooper, Mumm, Smith, Waugh AAA, Kepu, Higgenbotham, Fardy etc.
- Coles, Cane, Franks x2, Retallick, McCaw, Whitelock, Kaino, Savea etc.
- Every scrum half ever.

Funnily enough, some of the best players are actually the most competitive, and being competitive is more than just being physical.

 

[gel]

I largely agree with you, although I love Hooper.

But all he did in that scenario was making a great tackle and then let Coles know about it with a simple push when he got up.

We see dozens of players from all countries engage in that type of behaviour. Its simply an attempt to assert some personal mental dominance.

He then doesn't react to Brodie and Coles when they return the favour.

If that makes him a grub then the following players are grubs as well as they've all done similar throughout their career (e.g. head rubs / pats / pushes after the tackle):

- Burger, Etzebeth, du Toit, Poitgeiter, Bismarck du Plessis, de Jäger etc.
- Cooper, Mumm, Smith, Waugh AAA, Kepu, Higgenbotham, Fardy etc.
- Coles, Cane, Franks x2, Retallick, McCaw, Whitelock, Kaino, Savea etc.
- Every scrum half ever.

Funnily enough, some of the best players are actually the most competitive, and being competitive is more than just being physical.

Nah.

He doesn't stand up to them at all. He starts it and backs down when they continue it.

He goes totally silent when outmatched, and only stands up as soon as the referee arrives.

The "enforcers" such as etzebeth et al wouldn't have waited for the referee to arrive and wouldn't have tried to walk away once they started something.

 

[gel]

Funny. I am not an enormous fan of Hooper. I think there should be no Pooper and Hooper should have been retrained as a back long ago. But.

We don't know the context to that. Coles pulled a swinging arm to the head into a ruck earlier in the year. I doubt that is an isolated event. What Hooper does is fairly innocuous and he keeps his cool when Coles and Retallick give him a serve. We see All Blacks pulling off that kind of stuff all the time- they are just far better at it and far more discreet.

I think Hooper does a good job of standing tall against Coles and Retallick and taking it like a man. I reckon a guy like Moore would have kept up the niggle.

he "didn't take it like a man" and he didn't just "stand tall" though.

He started something - backed down when the kiwis continued it and then tried to stand up again when the referee came to the rescue.

The kiwis tv show was right to make it a thing of ridicule.

 

[Pfitzy]

Coles is a mental midget who happens to be good at rugby.

AB fans like to pretend all their blokes are saints, and then Coles gets sat on his arse but gets up in Hooper's face because Savea can run over people. Coles is a little prick who is lucky he plays for a winning side, because otherwise his short temper would land him in more trouble.

The "enforcers" such as etzebeth et al wouldn't have waited for the referee to arrive and wouldn't have tried to walk away once they started something.

So you're saying he should have thrown a punch?

Are you also one of those people talking about our discipline issues?

Try reading what you just typed out loud, Tommy Raudonikis. Then have a look at yourself.

 

[gel]

Coles is a mental midget who happens to be good at rugby.

AB fans like to pretend all their blokes are saints, and then Coles gets sat on his arse but gets up in Hooper's face because Savea can run over people. Coles is a little prick who is lucky he plays for a winning side, because otherwise his short temper would land him in more trouble.





So you're saying he should have thrown a punch?

Are you also one of those people talking about our discipline issues?

Try reading what you just typed out loud, Tommy Raudonikis. Then have a look at yourself.

Lol at you.

Geebus, You getaway with absolute bullshit fucking crap on this site.

I never said anything of the sort and you fucking know it.

He shouldn't have started anything - but once he did he shouldn't have waited for the referee to show before standing his ground. He repeatedly acts like a petulant child on the field.

He, Phipps and Moore ( and a few others) are constantly on at the referee, yet are constantly involved in niggle like this shit - and it is precisely why we don't get the 50/50s

 

[Forcefield]

he "didn't take it like a man" and he didn't just "stand tall" though.

He started something - backed down when the kiwis continued it and then tried to stand up again when the referee came to the rescue.

The kiwis tv show was right to make it a thing of ridicule.

I guess its a matter of perspective. I personally have no problem with what he did. Not a player I associate with being a grub. There are far worse out there.

 

[cyclopath]

Lol at you.

Geebus, You getaway with absolute bullshit fucking crap on this site.

I never said anything of the sort and you fucking know it.

He shouldn't have started anything - but once he did he shouldn't have waited for the referee to show before standing his ground. He repeatedly acts like a petulant child on the field.

He, Phipps and Moore ( and a few others) are constantly on at the referee, yet are constantly involved in niggle like this shit - and it is precisely why we don't get the 50/50s

Which is it? He fronts, but not strongly enough for you, so what's his next move? Glare angrily? Raise an eyebrow? Dab in a provocative manner? Clearly your implication is that he does not follow through physically.
So he throws a punch. "Wanker" shouts Gel.
So he doesn't. "Soft" shouts Gel. Face it, you don't like him and you'll create a narrative to fit your argument.
There are plenty of Wallabies over-stepping the mark at times, discipline-wise, who probably account for us not getting the 50-50 calls by giving away stupid penalties. It's a problem. But to blithely ignore the niggle that comes from other teams is naive in the extreme.

 

[gel]

I disagree with the notion it's a lot.

There's a few that are fucking it up for us and he's one of them.

As soon as the assistant referee arrived, he was suddenly brave enough. He's a pretender.

And you're absolutely correct about me not liking him - I doubt I would agree with how he held a fork if I saw him at a restaurant. There's only two wallabies that have made me question my loyalty to the wallabies - and he's one.