World XV (Or Earth's XV, Terran XV, whatever you like)

[Groucho]

He is a fantastic player, and really glad to have him as a Wallaby.
But the way he throws hos body around, will he last long enough (no critisism, he puts his body on the line every time)?

And Groucho, has he had many injuries other than the one that is keeping him out at the moment (which if I recall was also the same injury that kept him out prior to that return at the start of the international season).

farva, I can recall three injuries.

There was an ankle he suffered (I think) in the final of the U19 RWC that delayed his progress in the Waratahs, and which was the result of a hyper-extension I think. There was his shoulder last year, which seemed to be the result of him simply hitting too hard, and which I'm guessing is related to his current shoulder injury. And then there is the bone spurs problem which is just bad luck, and which surgery will fix.

I don't get the impression he is fragile. But he probably needs to start using some leverage, instead of just his body mass, to hammer people with.

 

[da_grubster]

New Zealand are top dogs at the moment, so I think to get into the World XV you've got to knock one of them off. It is difficult to decide who to include, and under what circumstances. What if they are injured? What if out of form? On both of those questions I have assumed recovery.


1 Tony Woodcock - Benn Robinson (although recent form does not reflect this)
2 Keven Mealamu - TPN
3 Owen Franks - Martin Castrogiovanni
4 Brad Thorn
5 Tom Donnelly - Victor Matfield
6 Jerome Kaino - Juan Smith
7 Richie McCaw (c)
8 Kieran Read - Imanol Harinordoquy
9 Jimmy Cowan - Fourie Du Preez
10 Dan Carter
11 Joe Rokocoko - Sitiveni Sivivatu
12 Ma'a Nonu - Jean De Villiers
13 Conrad Smith - Jaque Fourie
14 Cory Jane - Drew Mitchell
15 Mils Muliaina

I really don't know what form Mealamu has to hit to be considered the best in the world! Surely the best around at the moment and TPN hasnt hit the form that Super Kev has this year.

Matfield has been pretty poor this year but would probably still get in on rep alone.

Very little between Kaino and Smith if anything. Smith probably more important to the boks at the moment although anyone who saw the impact Kaino made in Sydney may beg to differ.

Havent seen enough of Hairdonkey recently to make a comparison but Read is essential to this AB team now. Needs to have a similar year next year to cement his place in a world xv properly.

Ditto Franks.

De villiers has done nothing to replace Nonu at 12. Smith benefits from having Nonu inside him and wouldnt swap him for Fourie. Smiths distribution and organisational skills are far better although Fourie has a better eye for a gap.

Jane over Mitchell all day for me although mitchell is a good winger. Has he always been first choice for Aus this year?

 

[tranquility]

John Candy
Danny Devito
John Goodman
Dolph Lundgren
Liam Neeson
Clint Eastwood
Jack Nicholson
Marlon Brando
Joe Pesci
Napolean Bonaparte
Wesley Snipes
Henry Hill
Don Draper
Jean Claude
De Niro

 

[Ruggo]

No John Wayne to get us over the gain line?

 

[Richo]

Jean Claude is a little short for the winger, a bit too balletic.

 

[farva]

I really don't know what form Mealamu has to hit to be considered the best in the world! Surely the best around at the moment and TPN hasnt hit the form that Super Kev has this year.

Matfield has been pretty poor this year but would probably still get in on rep alone.

Very little between Kaino and Smith if anything. Smith probably more important to the boks at the moment although anyone who saw the impact Kaino made in Sydney may beg to differ.

Havent seen enough of Hairdonkey recently to make a comparison but Read is essential to this AB team now. Needs to have a similar year next year to cement his place in a world xv properly.

Ditto Franks.

De villiers has done nothing to replace Nonu at 12. Smith benefits from having Nonu inside him and wouldnt swap him for Fourie. Smiths distribution and organisational skills are far better although Fourie has a better eye for a gap.

Jane over Mitchell all day for me although mitchell is a good winger. Has he always been first choice for Aus this year?

I agree with you regarding Mealamu - he is very good at the moment, and TPN hasnt played much to warrant his choice. Although I think when TPN is back to fitness and finds form, he will be justified to be in the squad.
Matfield shouldnt be there. He has been average this year. The Boks lineout no longer causes fear for other teams (provided they have an experienced lineout operator in there). I would instead have Sharpe partnering Thorn.
Smith is the best blindside out there. He is huge. Kaino is good, but I dont think he is as good as Smith.
The other name that gets mentioned a lot in number 8 circles is Fernandez Lobbe. But since I have not seen enough of the NH rugby this year to really make a judgement Ill stick to what I know and that is Read.
Ill take Smith over Fourie, but neither look out of place in a world XV.
In my opinion, Mitchell is the best attacking winger in world rugby at the moment. Jane is also very good, but Im going to lean to Mitchell. Call me biased but hey, we can all be one eyed cant we! Anyone seen the NH contenders for the wing spot - Bowe, Williams, the Froggies?

 

[Groucho]

I really don't know what form Mealamu has to hit to be considered the best in the world! Surely the best around at the moment and TPN hasnt hit the form that Super Kev has this year.

Matfield has been pretty poor this year but would probably still get in on rep alone.

Very little between Kaino and Smith if anything. Smith probably more important to the boks at the moment although anyone who saw the impact Kaino made in Sydney may beg to differ.

Havent seen enough of Hairdonkey recently to make a comparison but Read is essential to this AB team now. Needs to have a similar year next year to cement his place in a world xv properly.

Ditto Franks.

De villiers has done nothing to replace Nonu at 12. Smith benefits from having Nonu inside him and wouldnt swap him for Fourie. Smiths distribution and organisational skills are far better although Fourie has a better eye for a gap.

Jane over Mitchell all day for me although mitchell is a good winger. Has he always been first choice for Aus this year?

So grubster, are we back to the usual Kiwi supporter position now, which is that there are no non-Kiwi players good enough to make a world XV?

 

[qwerty51]

I really don't know what form Mealamu has to hit to be considered the best in the world! Surely the best around at the moment and TPN hasnt hit the form that Super Kev has this year.

Matfield has been pretty poor this year but would probably still get in on rep alone.

Very little between Kaino and Smith if anything. Smith probably more important to the boks at the moment although anyone who saw the impact Kaino made in Sydney may beg to differ.

Havent seen enough of Hairdonkey recently to make a comparison but Read is essential to this AB team now. Needs to have a similar year next year to cement his place in a world xv properly.

Ditto Franks.

De villiers has done nothing to replace Nonu at 12. Smith benefits from having Nonu inside him and wouldnt swap him for Fourie. Smiths distribution and organisational skills are far better although Fourie has a better eye for a gap.

Jane over Mitchell all day for me although mitchell is a good winger. Has he always been first choice for Aus this year?

Hahaha this idiot really argued that every spot should go to a Kiwi... Shouldn't they be beating us by 50 then?

 

[da_grubster]

Hahaha this idiot really argued that every spot should go to a Kiwi... Shouldn't they be beating us by 50 then?

It was in response to Langthorne posting a New Zealand side and suggesting people who could displace an AB from it.

So, of course, it is NZ centric as I was replying to a NZ centric post. You are the idiot who cannot understand.

Its not even about NZ are better than Australia so we should be beating you by 50. Even thpugh we did put 49 points on you at home and have beaten you 10 times in a row, it would be a hard stretch to beat you by 50 even by our lofty standards!

 

[da_grubster]

So grubster, are we back to the usual Kiwi supporter position now, which is that there are no non-Kiwi players good enough to make a world XV?

As in my response to the idiot Querty, I was responding to Langthorne's post about players displacing AB's in the current All Black side.

I did say the Mealamu is better than your injured hooker. I also said that I would keep Smith, Nonu and Jane in the side over the players he suggested.

I said that Matfield would probably get picked on rep alone so that is one. I didn't make any reference to your prop over Woodcock so that is two. I also said that Smith was neck and neck with Kaino, so you could nearly say that is 3.

In addition, I said that Read and Franks need another year at the level they are playing at to be considered ready for World xv selection.

So I make that 5 players already and I haven't even broken sweat! That's before I even mention Du Preez at halfback. I don't think Cowan would make the top 6 halfbacks in world rugby to be honest with you.

So, tell me more about this usual kiwi supporter position Grouch?

 

[DPK]

One would hope that all forums are moderated as well as the Schoolboy threads...

 

[#1 Tah]

He is a fantastic player, and really glad to have him as a Wallaby.
But the way he throws hos body around...

Those Typos will getcha!

If I had a world XV, my back row would consist of McCaw at 6, Pocock at 7 and Smith at 8. (the title did say whatever you like!)

Locks: Matfeild, Sharpe

 

[Groucho]

As in my response to the idiot Querty, I was responding to Langthorne's post about players displacing AB's in the current All Black side.

I did say the Mealamu is better than your injured hooker. I also said that I would keep Smith, Nonu and Jane in the side over the players he suggested.

I said that Matfield would probably get picked on rep alone so that is one. I didn't make any reference to your prop over Woodcock so that is two. I also said that Smith was neck and neck with Kaino, so you could nearly say that is 3.

In addition, I said that Read and Franks need another year at the level they are playing at to be considered ready for World xv selection.

So I make that 5 players already and I haven't even broken sweat! That's before I even mention Du Preez at halfback. I don't think Cowan would make the top 6 halfbacks in world rugby to be honest with you.

So, tell me more about this usual kiwi supporter position Grouch?

Sean Fitzpatrick famously claimed, just before the 2007 World Cup, that at that time no player from any other team could make the All Blacks.

In my experience, this is how many AB fans think, much of the time. When presented with the idea of a given foreign player displacing a current All Black, they react with honest incredulity.

 

[da_grubster]

Sean Fitzpatrick famously claimed, just before the 2007 World Cup, that at that time no player from any other team could make the All Blacks.

In my experience, this is how many AB fans think, much of the time. When presented with the idea of a given foreign player displacing a current All Black, they react with honest incredulity.

I believe you will find it was before a certain semi final at the 2003 RWC that Fitzy said no aussies would make an anzac xv.

While everyone has a natural bias towards their own country's players I don't think NZer's are that bad apart from a minority.

however, NZ is ranked no.1 consistently year after year and there have only been a few times when we have been knocked off the top spot. Most of their players could figure is a world xv or be a strong contender. I suppose there probably is only a couple of positions where the current AB side wouldn't have a contender for a world xv spot (halfback springs to mind), throw in natural bias and that is probably where a lot of this come from.

It is not always like that though, 99-2001, how many would have figured in a world xv? Not many but with certain year's (e.g. 2005, 2006, 2010) surely they would have a greater representation that would be considered normal for one country. The same goes for SA, Eng and Aus over the last decade.

I doubt that we are that different to Aus cricket or league supporters in a lot of respects.

 

[Groucho]

I believe you will find it was before a certain semi final at the 2003 RWC that Fitzy said no aussies would make an anzac xv.

I didn't know about the 2003 claim! I remember the 2007 world team one well as I was in London at the time, watching him live on Sky.

 

[da_grubster]

I didn't know about the 2003 claim! I remember the 2007 world team one well as I was in London at the time, watching him live on Sky.

I missed that one then Groucho! Thinking about it, I can't think of many other players who would have beaten an AB to a world xv spot at the time.....;-)

 

[Langthorne]

As I mentioned in my post, the All Blacks are the top team in the world by some distance, but that does not mean each and every player is the best in the world in their position.

It is very hard to argue these types of hypothetical selections unless there are rules set down beforehand. As there were not, I made selections based on the criteria I described. If we are going to exclude injuries and take form (for 3N teams) from only this year's Tri Nations, then all of the South Africans except Smith and maybe Matfield would be excluded. TPN would also be out, leaving Mealamu. I am not a big fan of Nonu-Smith, although I do admire Smith's tenacity, but I am not very impressed with many of the centres I've seen kicking around worldwide so I guess they'd be a good chance.

Maybe after the End of Year Tests I'll revisit the thread and make selections based on the whole year, with particular weight given to the latter part of the year.

 

[Groucho]

I missed that one then Groucho! Thinking about it, I can't think of many other players who would have beaten an AB to a world xv spot at the time.....;-)

To be honest, grubster, there have been sustained periods in world rugby where the ABs have had the best in most positions, so Fitzy's view is not always an unreasonable one.

 

[da_grubster]

As I mentioned in my post, the All Blacks are the top team in the world by some distance, but that does not mean each and every player is the best in the world in their position.

It is very hard to argue these types of hypothetical selections unless there are rules set down beforehand. As there were not, I made selections based on the criteria I described. If we are going to exclude injuries and take form (for 3N teams) from only this year's Tri Nations, then all of the South Africans except Smith and maybe Matfield would be excluded. TPN would also be out, leaving Mealamu. I am not a big fan of Nonu-Smith, although I do admire Smith's tenacity, but I am not very impressed with many of the centres I've seen kicking around worldwide so I guess they'd be a good chance.

Maybe after the End of Year Tests I'll revisit the thread and make selections based on the whole year, with particular weight given to the latter part of the year.

Langthorne, very difficult to do so, look at Pocock playing outstanding rugby on the back of a wallaby pack that is 3rd best in the tri nations. How would he go at 7 for the AB's?

Smith Nonu is being talked about as the best centre paring since Little and Bunce in the NZ media. Smith is not a blockbusting centre but it is his organisation, distribution, leadership, defence that is his strength and he can break the line as well, just not in the same style as Mortlock for example. On another note, I barely see Devilliers do anything of note apart from a couple of runaway tries.

Of course a lot of NZ players have looked good because all of the side is playing well, winning and dominating but it is worth noting that the majority of the side was in place in 2009 which was one of the worst years in the pro era for NZ

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Point 1. It is easy for backs (Darkness or otherwise) to look good when the piggies are getting quality go forward ball for them.

Point 2. Great backs behind a poor pack can look ordinary.

Point 3. Bugger I forgot exactly what point 3 was but it was a good one and I think it was related to the need to gain experience and confidence to get to the top level.