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Wobblies v pumas - is Salta at altitude edition

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KOB1987

John Eales (66)
^^^ seems to be a one off at least, I think he's probably just genuinely unsure about which way to go. I suspect it's about whether to have Timu on the bench or 2 locks again. I know what I'd do but if he needs another training session to make a decision then so be it.

No real surprises there, the 10/12 axis will be the main contentious area followed by the back row and the locks. JB you missed that Latu is back in for BPA.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
At his best Latu is pretty handy.

did anyone see the Eagles v Drua match on the weekend? The Eagles lineout was terrible and the Drua preyed on it. Lot's of long throws which went way too long. Latu actually came off after about half an hour. I thought he may have actually been pulled but perhaps he was told he could only play 30 minutes because he was on the plane to Argentina soon after? Anyone have insight?
 

Ignoto

Peter Sullivan (51)
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Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
^^^ seems to be a one off at least, I think he's probably just genuinely unsure about which way to go. I suspect it's about whether to have Timu on the bench or 2 locks again. I know what I'd do but if he needs another training session to make a decision then so be it.

No real surprises there, the 10/12 axis will be the main contentious area followed by the back row and the locks. JB you missed that Latu is back in for BPA.
Yes. He will add weight to our scrummaging and to the contest at the breakdown. Hope his throwing has improved.
Will Ulese be back for the EOYT?
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Saw that coming *sigh*

Wonder if To'omua will be another who Cheika entices back to Oz then casts aside after a hamstrung opportunity then phases out (same as Cooper having someone play out of position beside him)
Did Cheika entice To'omua? Thought he made his own moves. I know he played a hand in Beale and TPN though.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
did anyone see the Eagles v Drua match on the weekend? The Eagles lineout was terrible and the Drua preyed on it. Lot's of long throws which went way too long. Latu actually came off after about half an hour. I thought he may have actually been pulled but perhaps he was told he could only play 30 minutes because he was on the plane to Argentina soon after? Anyone have insight?
I reckon Latu is an attitude player, like Skelton.

If you can get his head in check he's great, but if you can't he's not.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
And that raises the question of why anyone would call for a throw at the spot where the competition is one of the best lineout operators in the world? I stand by my rating of Hooper being an embarrassment in the lineout.

I'm not going to disagree that Hooper should never be called. He's a 'break glass in case of emergency' option, as most fourth options are.

The blame for the ball going to him needs to be directed at the coaches and callers, not Hooper IMO. It's the same when Pocock gets used in the lineout. It should never have to come to that.


As far as his general play goes, Hooper had more touches on the right wing than in the tight exchanges in the forwards. He didn't make linebreaks even out there but mostly went to ground in the first tackle. As a forward he is missing in action, so yes, a lot of the trouble the Wallabies are in at the moment can be put down to the role Hooper is playing.


That is the game plan they play. When Hooper was out of the team, Samu played exactly the same role. Pocock has done it too.

Nick Bishop did a bit of analysis over on the Roar about it, and it's worth checking out.

I agree with you that it's a poor game plan, although Hooper is the only backrower we have who can actually play it.

I just think you tend to blame him for the failure of others. He should certainly take his share of blame as captain of a failing side, no doubt. But he's told to play the way he does - we've seen him excel in tighter game plans in the past. He's an outstanding player and I'd love to see him used a bit better than he is now.
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Lorenzo

Colin Windon (37)
What are people's views on the captaincy generally?

For a long time I thought the mark of a good captain was one that could motivate the team to perform relatively well on the road. But that was when we tended to win at home, save for matches against the ABs.

Now that we are a total dumpster fire, I have a hard time measuring it.

A new coach will probably appoint a new captain?
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
A new coach would certainly choose captain. Both Link and TGC chose Hooper.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
I think captaincy is a really hard thing to judge from the outside.

Ideally the captain is the bloke who steps up behind closed doors, and sets the standard on and off the field. It's in training, in the huddles, on the team bus etc.

We all can speculate that player X or Y would do a better job, but it's really all guesswork. We don't see how they carry themselves in those moments.

Really the only view of the captain we have is in interviews, or when they talk to the ref. And that's about 10% of the job, so it's not a reliable indicator of how they are performing IMO.
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Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I think captaincy is a really hard thing to judge from the outside.

Ideally the captain is the bloke who steps up behind closed doors, and sets the standard on and off the field. It's in training, in the huddles, on the team bus etc.

We all can speculate that player X or Y would do a better job, but it's really all guesswork. We don't see how they carry themselves in those moments.

Really the only view of the captain we have is in interviews, or when they talk to the ref. And that's about 10% of the job, so it's not a reliable indicator of how they are performing IMO.
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He probably should have taken some more points last week.

Don't envy the bloke though. Forwards cant win a lineout, goal kicker just missed a sitter.
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
I think who has the captaincy is more pertinent an issue when your team can get the basics right. If those on the front page were to be believed giving Pocock the captaincy should have magically righted the ship but, lo and behold, we lost at home to Argentina when he had the reins. That is not to say he is necessarily a bad captain, just that it makes no difference given the hole we're in now.

When we're losing games to the best teams in the world because of poor captaincy I'll be more open to changing it.
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
I'm not going to disagree that Hooper should never be called. He's a 'break glass in case of emergency' option, as most fourth options are.

The blame for the ball going to him needs to be directed at the coaches and callers, not Hooper IMO. It's the same when Pocock gets used in the lineout. It should never have to come to that.





That is the game plan they play. When Hooper was out of the team, Samu played exactly the same role. Pocock has done it too.

Nick Bishop did a bit of analysis over on the Roar about it, and it's worth checking out.

I agree with you that it's a poor game plan, although Hooper is the only backrower we have who can actually play it.

I just think you tend to blame him for the failure of others. He should certainly take his share of blame as captain of a failing side, no doubt. But he's told to play the way he does - we've seen him excel in tighter game plans in the past. He's an outstanding player and I'd love to see him used a bit better than he is now.
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Barb, out of respect I will post one last time on the subject, but in truth I am now so disillusioned that I'm not of a mind to take any more interest in the Wallabies until Michael Cheika has been given the flick.

I mentioned Hooper in all of my comments because he was the player central to those poor aspects of the game plan. I really don't have a gripe about Michael except that he is given a free run by Cheika in the team.

Hooper is our second best No 7, and a very good one by international standards. He should be competing head to head with Pocock for the No 7 spot. There are different oppositions around the world who play in ways that would suit Hooper better, as there are those who would suit Pocock better. On the matters relating to the lineout and where he plays in the backline setup, I realise and acknowledge he is subject to Cheika's game plan and instructions. That doesn't stop me from being bewildered by his positioning at No 2 in the lineout. Surely, a better spot for the No 4 jumper is at the back where his speed off the mark would allow him to compete if there is an overthrow, as there invariably is, usually more than one per game.

So, I will concede my naming of Hooper is off the mark, and the true fault of the areas going wrong lies with Michael Cheika. My intention, now, is to withdraw from any more discussion of the Wallabies under Cheika as I regard it to be a lost cause. I will continue to watch the games unless it goes even further into the shit where I lose interest altogether.
 
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