Wobblies v pumas - is Salta at altitude edition

[Brumby Runner]

10 Foley 12 To'omua is really the only other combination to try with the current personnel. You could go 10 To'omua 12 Hodge at a stretch too but we're left without a viable 13 then.

I'll reiterate though, Beale at 10 has been disastrous, Beale at 12 is OK. The problem we are having at the moment is we don't have a world class 10, it's not the 10/12 combination that comes with that which is the problem. You can dig up a statistic to make a case for any argument, Foley/Beale at 33% if that's right is probably no worse, or marginally so, than the overall strike rate for the same period.

Personally I like Beale off the bench.

Beale at 12 has not been ok this year. Two wins from 8 tests is not a record anyone should be proud of, but in Beale's case, many posters have lamented both his lateral running at 12 and his inability to exert himself in defence. He has contributed very little to the Wallabies' cause at 12 or anywhere in 2018.

I also agree, KOB, that I'd like to see him off the bench, by around 10,000km. There are prospects who should be tried now that our established stars have shown almost complete lack of ability to win a test match against the other top ranking nations. Primarily, To'omua at 12 with Foley in the 10 spot must be tried, but otherwise I am convinced we would get better value from either Paia'aua (with his suspect tackling - no worse than Beale) or Meakes who has a more complete game than Beale.

 

[Jerry West]

1. Sio
2. Latu
3. Tupou
4. Arnold
5. Coleman
6. Cottrell
7. Hooper
8. Pocock
9. Genia
10. To'omua
11. Koroibete
12. Beale
13. Hodge
14. Folau
15. DHP

16. Fainga’a
17. Kepu
18. AAA
19. Rodda
20. Timu
21. Gordon
22. Foley
23. Banks

 

[dillyboy]

Looks like To'omua is about to get benched & we're going back to Foley-Beale FFS.....

But it's ok, Bernard has "found a new hunger for the game...."

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-choose-To'omua-or-foley-20181003-p507h0.html

Oh lord, To'omua has been one of the best on field, does Cheika want to get sacked or something???

 

[KOB1987]

Looks like To'omua is about to get benched & we're going back to Foley-Beale FFS...

But it's ok, Bernard has "found a new hunger for the game.."

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-choose-To'omua-or-foley-20181003-p507h0.html

Oh lord, To'omua has been one of the best on field, does Cheika want to get sacked or something???

That's the article which has led to the past 10 or so posts. It doesn't say that To'omua is about to get benched though, it says either he or Foley will be at 10.

As for To'omua being one on the best on field, no he hasn't. His most memorable moment has been a lucky try from the Boks overthrow, behind that was being unfairly benched at the expense of Beale who was having a Barry.

 

[KOB1987]

Beale at 12 has not been ok this year. Two wins from 8 tests is not a record anyone should be proud of, but in Beale's case, many posters have lamented both his lateral running at 12 and his inability to exert himself in defence. He has contributed very little to the Wallabies' cause at 12 or anywhere in 2018.

In fairness KB (Kurtley Beale) doesn't stand alone with an assessment like that of this year's performance. He does work best when he has stronger defenders around him though so To'omua/Beale/Hodge is worth a try, as is Foley/To'omua. A year out from the RWC we shouldn't really be debating who should be playing in what position, bar a couple of the usual line ball decisions.

 

[Joe Blow]

I would like to see Foley at 10 and a To'omua at 12 to start with KB (Kurtley Beale) coming in at 12 in the second half when the game loosens up a bit.
More important to our cause will be the pack selections. We need go forward and to contest and win the collisions.

 

[upthereds#!]

Ok....what.

"Wallabies ready to mix it up" - "Wallabies will consider picking an extra loose forward"

Since when has been picking a loose forward in the 20 jersey been 'mixing it up'? That's standard practice. They were mixing it up when they picked 2 locks on the bench in order to fix their lineout woes and it failed. So now going back to normal. Another failed kneejerk experiment trying to fix a structural flaw.

A picking a 2nd lock on the bench at 200cm instead of a backrow at 191cm was special. 9cm off the bench won't fix the lifters, or the calling, or the speed off the ground.

 

[Derpus]

Beale at 12 has not been ok this year. Two wins from 8 tests is not a record anyone should be proud of, but in Beale's case, many posters have lamented both his lateral running at 12 and his inability to exert himself in defence. He has contributed very little to the Wallabies' cause at 12 or anywhere in 2018.

I also agree, KOB, that I'd like to see him off the bench, by around 10,000km. There are prospects who should be tried now that our established stars have shown almost complete lack of ability to win a test match against the other top ranking nations. Primarily, To'omua at 12 with Foley in the 10 spot must be tried, but otherwise I am convinced we would get better value from either Paia'aua (with his suspect tackling - no worse than Beale) or Meakes who has a more complete game than Beale.

I'm starting to think you don't actually watch rugby mate.

I still don't get why we are banging on about 10/12.

Did anyone see the forwards last match? the players that actually lost the game for us? Why isn't anyone calling for Coleman's head? His lineout has been the Wallabies worst for years (and we've had some shockers).

The complete lack of front foot ball, the woeful support play, woeful ruck security, woeful lineout, and woeful fucking defence. None of this has anything to do with the god damn 10.

 

[KOB1987]

I'm starting to think you don't actually watch rugby mate.

I still don't get why we are banging on about 10/12.

Did anyone see the forwards last match? the players that actually lost the game for us? Why isn't anyone calling for Coleman's head? His lineout has been the Wallabies worst for years (and we've had some shockers).

The complete lack of front foot ball, the woeful support play, woeful ruck security, woeful lineout, and woeful fucking defence. None of this has anything to do with the god damn 10.

I agree with all of that. Suggesting Meakes is just an 'anyone but Beale' approach. For now we're stuck with forming a combination from Foley/To'omua/Beale, when we get the two K's back we will have more options.

Fix the set piece and the lack of go forward from the forwards and the backs will perform better, still probably not optimally, but better.

 

[Joe Blow]

In the forwards we need someone who will combine well with Hooper and Pocock to make our back row effective. Then we need two locks, our 6 and the hookers, actually our whole pack to be putting in serious time on the lineout.
We could probably also use Ledesma for a couple of days to get our pack back in sinc. How close are he and Cheika?

 

[RugbyReg]

In the forwards we need someone who will combine well with Hooper and Pocock to make our back row effective. Then we need two locks, our 6 and the hookers, actually our whole pack to be putting in serious time on the lineout.
We could probably also use Ledesma for a couple of days to get our pack back in sinc. How close are he and Cheika?

You do realise Ledesma coaches Argentina??

 

[Lorenzo]

Are we really going to blame the set piece and ruck and lineout and literally anything but Kurtley for Beale's woeful one-on-one defence? Does he need good front foot ball to be able to execute a standard one on one tackle?

You only need to see him attempt a tackle once to see the fundamental flaw in his defence that he has had zero incentive to correct during his pro career. He goes high literally every time and the outcome is usually one of:

- he gets bumped
- he holds on and tackles but not before he is dragged 3 or 4 metres upfield
- help arrives and the tackle is completed

All of these outcomes put us behind for the next phase, but he gets a pass from you lot on the basis that if we ever get that wonderful front foot ball we haven't had since the 90s, he will bring us untold riches in points.

 

[Derpus]

Are we really going to blame the set piece and ruck and lineout and literally anything but Kurtley for Beale's woeful one-on-one defence? Does he need good front foot ball to be able to execute a standard one on one tackle?

No one is doing that. No one has ever done that. Everyone agrees hes not great at defending.

You just can't let it go can you?

 

[KOB1987]

Are we really going to blame the set piece and ruck and lineout and literally anything but Kurtley for Beale's woeful one-on-one defence? Does he need good front foot ball to be able to execute a standard one on one tackle?

You only need to see him attempt a tackle once to see the fundamental flaw in his defence that he has had zero incentive to correct during his pro career. He goes high literally every time and the outcome is usually one of:

- he gets bumped
- he holds on and tackles but not before he is dragged 3 or 4 metres upfield
- help arrives and the tackle is completed

All of these outcomes put us behind for the next phase, but he gets a pass from you lot on the basis that if we ever get that wonderful front foot ball we haven't had since the 90s, he will bring us untold riches in points.

That's not really what's happening. What's being said is that the biggest problem in the Wallabies is in the forwards, both in the lineout and lack of go forward. Everyone's acknowledging that Beale has been poor both in defence and attack.

This post of yours implies that the Wallabies' entire problem is Beale's defence. Which is just outright ridiculous.

 

[Joe Blow]

You do realise Ledesma coaches Argentina??

Yes. It might test the relationship I know.

 

[Derpus]

You do realise Ledesma coaches Argentina??

Im starting to think Ledesma was, on the sly, responsible for a most of the good stuff we have done over the last few years.

Certainly hit the ground running with the Pumas and Jags.

 

[Lorenzo]

You two can say you're acknowledging that Beale has underperformed, but that conversion has occurred pretty close to the Damascus gate as far as I can see, and whenever talk of his replacement comes up, the discussion quickly turns to other problems we have.

We've been talking about how great things would be if we had front foot ball for close to 20 years now. I'm not sure we should build our team around needing it 100% of the time.

 

[Derpus]

You two can say you're acknowledging that Beale has underperformed, but that conversion has occurred pretty close to the Damascus gate as far as I can see, and whenever talk of his replacement comes up, the discussion quickly turns to other problems we have.

We've been talking about how great things would be if we had front foot ball for close to 20 years now. I'm not sure we should build our team around needing it 100% of the time.

Most of the last two pages have been you bitching about Beale. None of the last two pages have been you bitching about the variety of far more serious flaws our team has.

 

[barbarian]

How are we going to fix our lineout this week?

On viewing the game again, Fainga'a's throwing wasn't the problem - he was hitting his targets, we were just calling to the wrong places.

Do we need a change of caller? Clearly Coleman and Rodda aren't up to the task. I don't know if the best option is Simmons (who does have the track record, as much as some may disagree), Arnold or someone like Cottrell.

What we are doing now isn't working, and it's really hurting us.
.

 

[Derpus]

How are we going to fix our lineout this week?

On viewing the game again, Fainga'a's throwing wasn't the problem - he was hitting his targets, we were just calling to the wrong places.

Do we need a change of caller? Clearly Coleman and Rodda aren't up to the task. I don't know if the best option is Simmons (who does have the track record, as much as some may disagree), Arnold or someone like Cottrell.

What we are doing now isn't working, and it's really hurting us.
.

Paenga Amosa, Simmons, Arnold, Cotrell/Hanigan

It's not like Coleman or Rodda are getting us over the gain line, or putting big defensive hits in.