Wobblies v pumas - is Salta at altitude edition

[A mutterer]

I'll be the first to line up for the self flagellation of my already battered expectations.

Two players quoted in the media not knowing salta is at altitude. Not sure if they're talking the post but odd responses.

For me beale needs some time acquainted with the pine. Same call last game with 10 and 12, Foley and To'omua.

Give cottrell a crack. Not sure how to get the forwards functioning again. Hopefully some fine argentinians bbq's can do the job.

 

[vidiot]

I don’t want to come across as chicken little - but the sky really is falling.

The disconnect from inside the bubble (coach, players) and outside (whatever jaundiced version of reality we are seeing) is massive. Until there is absolute honesty from the playing group and coaching staff - at least to themselves - I don’t see this nightmare ending.

As far as the Pumas at Salta is concerned it looks like the most obvious ambush ever. Once upon a time our inconsistency meant we would be likely to bounce back for a win but we have become more consistent in finding positives in mediocrity

 

[Derpus]

I'll be the first to line up for the self flagellation of my already battered expectations.

Two players quoted in the media not knowing salta is at altitude. Not sure if they're talking the post but odd responses.

For me beale needs some time acquainted with the pine. Same call last game with 10 and 12, Foley and To'omua.

Give cottrell a crack. Not sure how to get the forwards functioning again. Hopefully some fine argentinians bbq's can do the job.

Been to Salta and can vouch for this. Their beef is next level. Got some decent red to accompany it too.

 

[dru]

Actually the game at Southport was an ambush.

This is a simple case where surely the underdog title has changed.

 

[Bandar]

I'll be the first to line up for the self flagellation of my already battered expectations.

Two players quoted in the media not knowing salta is at altitude. Not sure if they're talking the post but odd responses.

For me beale needs some time acquainted with the pine. Same call last game with 10 and 12, Foley and To'omua.

Give cottrell a crack. Not sure how to get the forwards functioning again. Hopefully some fine argentinians bbq's can do the job.

Agree that a new 9-10-12 combination should be used. Longer term I don't mind the idea of KB (Kurtley Beale) on a wing if Foley/To'omua works.

The forwards should be doing a fair bit of line out work this week.

1. Sio
2. BPA/Latu/Fainga'a (Whoever does best at line out training)
3. Tupou
4. Arnold
5. Coleman
6. Hanigan
7. Hooper
8. Pocock
9. Genia
10. Foley
11. Folau
12. To'omua
13. Hodge
14. Koroibete
15. Haylett-Petty

16. BPA/Latu/Fainga'a (Whoever does next best at line out training)
17. Ala'alatoa
18. Kepu
19. Rodda
20. Cotteral
21. Gordon
22. Beale
23. Banks

 

[Ali's Choice]

Without wanting to be too dramatic, this is one of the most important games the Wallabies have played since the last RWC. Win this game, especially with a convincing performance, and they finish the Rugby Championship on a high. Players and fans will have something to be positive about, and the squad can head into the upcoming NH tour with a renewed sense of optimism and purpose.

But losing this test match would be a disaster. A loss in Salta could be the circuit breaker that leads to changes, and potentially even someone losing their job? I'm not saying it would be Cheika being dumped as coach, or Michael Hooper losing the captaincy, but I don't think Rugby Australia could simply accept a loss and carry on with business as usual. I don't think the fans would accept a loss and allow Rugby Australia to brush the outcomes under the carpet.

So with so much on the line, and so much pressure on key individuals within the Wallaby setup, I expect a good performance from the men in Gold, and a Wallaby win by 10 points.

 

[Slim 293]

2. BPA/Latu/Fainga'a (Whoever does best at line out training)

The lineout issues haven't really been with the hooker though............

There was nothing wrong with Fainga'a's throwing on the weekend - the lineout has just been a basket case in that team for a few years now.

He did have a very nervy start to the game, but appeared to settle in after a while.

I would give him another shot as he looks to be the better prospect of the 3.

 

[Derpus]

The lineout issues haven't really been with the hooker though....

There was nothing wrong with Fainga'a's throwing on the weekend - the lineout has just been a basket case in that team for a few years now.

He did have a very nervy start to the game, but appeared to settle in after a while.

I would give him another shot as he looks to be the better prospect of the 3.

Missed a regulation tackle for the second Bokke try though. Was rookie stuff. Which is not surprising since he's a rookie.

 

[Lorenzo]

Without wanting to be too dramatic, this is one of the most important games the Wallabies have played since the last RWC. Win this game, especially with a convincing performance, and they finish the Rugby Championship on a high. Players and fans will have something to be positive about, and the squad can head into the upcoming NH tour with a renewed sense of optimism and purpose.

But losing this test match would be a disaster. A loss in Salta could be the circuit breaker that leads to changes, and potentially even someone losing their job? I'm not saying it would be Cheika being dumped as coach, or Michael Hooper losing the captaincy, but I don't think Rugby Australia could simply accept a loss and carry on with business as usual. I don't think the fans would accept a loss and allow Rugby Australia to brush the outcomes under the carpet.

So with so much on the line, and so much pressure on key individuals within the Wallaby setup, I expect a good performance from the men in Gold, and a Wallaby win by 10 points.

And to what end is that? Kicking the can down the road with a clearly false sense of optimism after winning against the 9th ranked team? Yeah, no thanks.

If getting pumped here is the catalyst for change, then that is the best outcome.

Things are so bad now that the players are getting out in front of the losses by telling us beforehand that:

“I don't think it's make-or-break,” said Haylett-Petty of the upcoming fixture. “We're not so much focusing on the outcome … we've got to make sure we're learning our lessons and getting better.

I like DHP at 15,but sorry, no, just no. This is test football. It's not a trial match against Australia B or even Super Rugby. This coach has now had 37 post RWC tests(to put that in perspective, Dick Harry played 37 tests in his entire career) in which to refine the 'process' and we should well and truly be into just-win mode (if there's ever an excuse for leaving it).

This underlying premise that the entire 3.5 year gap between each RWC is merely a building phase for the next tournament really has to be torched. We all know that this side has buckley's chance of winning the RWC and therefore that we can't keep forgiving terrible performances now on the basis that we are 'building' towards something.

 

[wamberal]

Mate, what they are quoted as saying in the papers is not worth getting excited about.


As an old mate of mine used to say: "it's just paper talk". Means nothing. Could even be meant to mislead the opposition.

 

[Lorenzo]

Mate, what they are quoted as saying in the papers is not worth getting excited about.


As an old mate of mine used to say: "it's just paper talk". Means nothing. Could even be meant to mislead the opposition.

You have a point. Still, I think the idea that this is some form of 4D chess move to mislead the opposition is even more laughable.

 

[Lorenzo]

After starting at No.10 in the Wallabies’ last three matches, Beale is set to move back to No.12, where he has played the majority of his rugby at international level since the World Cup.

Beale shifting to No.12 almost certainly means either Foley or To'omua will be on a bench that may well feature a specialist back-row replacement this time around.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-choose-To'omua-or-foley-20181003-p507h0.html

If Beale plays at the expense of To'omua, I am done.

 

[Derpus]

After starting at No.10 in the Wallabies’ last three matches, Beale is set to move back to No.12, where he has played the majority of his rugby at international level since the World Cup.

Beale shifting to No.12 almost certainly means either Foley or To'omua will be on a bench that may well feature a specialist back-row replacement this time around.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-choose-To'omua-or-foley-20181003-p507h0.html

If Beale plays at the expense of To'omua, I am done.

Because To'omua has been so good? Beale has been terrible at 10, but he's usually ok at 12. To'omua has done the grand total of fuck all since he came back.

 

[Lorenzo]

Well, To'omua can actually defend, which while absent from most analysis undertaken on Beale, is on average half the job.

How many points (for us, I mean) has Beale been involved in setting up in this RC? Because as far as I can see he has also done fuck all and also manages to leak metres every time he is asked to tackle.

 

[Derpus]

Well, To'omua can actually defend, which while absent from most analysis undertaken on Beale, is on average half the job.

How many points (for us, I mean) has Beale been involved in setting up in this RC? Because as far as I can see he has also done fuck all and also manages to leak metres every time he is asked to tackle.

Nah hes been shit. But its a little extreme to say 'oh i am done' if one shit, out of form player gets picked over one other shit out of form player.

 

[Lorenzo]

That's true. I just wonder what Beale would have to do to get dropped.

 

[KOB1987]

My read on the article is that both Foley and To'omua are going to run at 10 at some stage, it's just a matter of who starts. Conservatively you'd start Foley as you know the combination works, and give To'omua a run later. If you're in experimental mode you'd start To'omua with the knowledge you can steady the ship with Foley if it's not working. You can make a case for both scenarios in this match without any reason for a dummy spit if it's not the selection you'd prefer.

 

[Lorenzo]

My read on the article is that both Foley and To'omua are going to run at 10 at some stage, it's just a matter of who starts. Conservatively you'd start Foley as you know the combination works, and give To'omua a run later. If you're in experimental mode you'd start To'omua with the knowledge you can steady the ship with Foley if it's not working. You can make a case for both scenarios in this match without any reason for a dummy spit if it's not the selection you'd prefer.

Lol. What evidence is there of this? Super Rugby prowess?

The wallabies are 33% with the Foley-Beale pairing. It can't be working that well.

As for dummy spitting, yes it pisses me off when glaring deficiencies are not rectified. I understand that you are more tolerant (especially re Beale), which is good for you, given the circumstances.

 

[Derpus]

Lol. What evidence is there of this? Super Rugby prowess?

The wallabies are 33% with the Foley-Beale pairing. It can't be working that well.

As for dummy spitting, yes it pisses me off when glaring deficiencies are not rectified. I understand that you are more tolerant (especially re Beale), which is good for you, given the circumstances.

Yeah, i actually randomly agree with you. Foley/Beale works great for the Tahs but hasn't even been exceptional for the Wallabies.

 

[KOB1987]

10 Foley 12 To'omua is really the only other combination to try with the current personnel. You could go 10 To'omua 12 Hodge at a stretch too but we're left without a viable 13 then.

I'll reiterate though, Beale at 10 has been disastrous, Beale at 12 is OK. The problem we are having at the moment is we don't have a world class 10, it's not the 10/12 combination that comes with that which is the problem. You can dig up a statistic to make a case for any argument, Foley/Beale at 33% if that's right is probably no worse, or marginally so, than the overall strike rate for the same period.

Personally I like Beale off the bench.