Wobblies v pumas - is Salta at altitude edition

[fatprop]

The forwards stepped up in the second half and we got some front foot ball and could sustain some pressure

 

[barbarian]

I genuinely don't understand why you bother watching the sport when it clearly makes you so unhappy, even when we win.

A game like this really sums up my internal debate about the way I approach the game. To my mind, there are two broad ways of looking at it:

1. We won! Not only that, we overcame a 24-point HT deficit to record a rousing fightback win. It wasn't perfect, but it's good to see.

2. We somehow scraped a win after getting ourselves in a 24-point hole at HT. It was a win in name only, and should never have had to be that difficult - we really are a bad team.

Now as a Wallaby fan, you have a real choice as to which of these two positions to take. Because this is all a game and I want to enjoy it, I want to take option 1 every time.

You don't need to think everything is rosy, but if you can't crack a smile at an away comeback win, then what's the point of it all?
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[Lorenzo]

I genuinely don't understand why you bother watching the sport when it clearly makes you so unhappy, even when we win.

You are straw-manning, I believe the post was about patting ourselves on the back, yet you're now saying 'so unhappy' which is your terminology.

But the answer is - because we know it's not (the 2nd half, anyway) representative of what this group has provided over the medium term and almost certainly not what we'll see in the short term future.

Do you not think there is a difference between winning the WC / the Bled / hell, a series against Ireland at home and staging a comeback against the 9th ranked team in a test to figure out who comes last and second last?

Presumably you'll be thrilled if we do a good job on 14th ranked italy, too? Perhaps we should cease playing the top 10 sides and enter into a triangular with Georgia and the Ivory Coast?

 

[Lorenzo]

A game like this really sums up my internal debate about the way I approach the game. To my mind, there are two broad ways of looking at it:

1. We won! Not only that, we overcame a 24-point HT deficit to record a rousing fightback win. It wasn't perfect, but it's good to see.

2. We somehow scraped a win after getting ourselves in a 24-point hole at HT. It was a win in name only, and should never have had to be that difficult - we really are a bad team.

Now as a Wallaby fan, you have a real choice as to which of these two positions to take. Because this is all a game and I want to enjoy it, I want to take option 1 every time.

You don't need to think everything is rosy, but if you can't crack a smile at an away comeback win, then what's the point of it all?
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Why is it important for you to understand what people get out of it? You have invented this two-option framework for yourself, then bizarrely suggested that every other fan needs to fit into it.

Since you raised it, I think you come off as a blind homer, and to me that doesn't seem like much cop at all, but yknow, different strokes.

 

[Derpus]

You are straw-manning, I believe the post was about patting ourselves on the back, yet you're now saying 'so unhappy' which is your terminology.

But the answer is - because we know it's not (the 2nd half, anyway) representative of what this group has provided over the medium term and almost certainly not what we'll see in the short term future.

Do you not think there is a difference between winning the WC / the Bled / hell, a series against Ireland at home and staging a comeback against the 9th ranked team in a test to figure out who comes last and second last?

Presumably you'll be thrilled if we do a good job on 14th ranked italy, too? Perhaps we should cease playing the top 10 sides and enter into a triangular with Georgia and the Ivory Coast?

Yeah i'll be happy if we win, why shouldn't i be? I guess you are free to be as negative as you like. Seems like a grim existence though.

The forwards stepped up in the second half and we got some front foot ball and could sustain some pressure

Which has been lacking in every other test this year. I thought Latu really stepped up in his time on the pitch. Carried hard and was attacking the breakdown a lot.

 

[Lorenzo]

Yeah i'll be happy if we win, why shouldn't i be? I guess you are free to be as negative as you like. Seems like a grim existence though.

I guess we should play minnow teams a lot more and tier 1 sides a lot less, then. That way you'll be able to thoroughly enjoy every test, right?

 

[Quick Hands]

Yeah i'll be happy if we win, why shouldn't i be?

You can be as happy as you like (as you clearly are).

The issue for the Wallabies is that isolated wins like these are used as a cover for serious inadequacies.

Sort of like when Nick Kyrios has a good tournament and people finally think he's a serious Grand Slam contender. The inadequcies in his game and mental approach are still there.

 

[wamberal]

You can be as happy as you like (as you clearly are).

The issue for the Wallabies is that isolated wins like these are used as a cover for serious inadequacies.

Sort of like when Nick Kyrios has a good tournament and people finally think he's a serious Grand Slam contender. The inadequcies in his game and mental approach are still there.

On the other hand, so are his strengths, which are considerable.

 

[barbarian]

Why is it important for you to understand what people get out of it? You have invented this two-option framework for yourself, then bizarrely suggested that every other fan needs to fit into it.

Since you raised it, I think you come off as a blind homer, and to me that doesn't seem like much cop at all, but yknow, different strokes.

I'm fascinated by the way people approach the game here.

This site was created for fans of the game (and the Wallabies) to chat about all things rugby.

If I come across as a 'blind homer' that might be because I'm a fan of the team. I want them to win, and I try to be positive when I talk about them. I find I enjoy myself more when I view it through that lens.

Because at the end of the day this is all about enjoyment. It's a game. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you can't enjoy a win, then why are you doing it?
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[Lorenzo]

I'm fascinated by the way people approach the game here.

This site was created for fans of the game (and the Wallabies) to chat about all things rugby.

If I come across as a 'blind homer' that might be because I'm a fan of the team. I want them to win, and I try to be positive when I talk about them. I find I enjoy myself more when I view it through that lens.

Because at the end of the day this is all about enjoyment. It's a game. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you can't enjoy a win, then why are you doing it?
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I think if you had a genuine fascination with other peoples' attitudes, you would be capable of exploring and (ultimately) understanding why some people view these things a bit differently to you.

You can break down sports into all kinds of levels. Should every NFL fan be happy with a win against another shit team when their team is out of playoff contention, or can you understand that they might not get much joy from that because having supported that team all their lives, what they really want is a Superbowl victory or to be at least be in the discussion?

We are all 'fans' here, i guess some of us have higher thresholds for being pleased than you do.

Why do you think that everyone should have exactly the same threshold as you?

 

[Derpus]

You can also be positive about the team, support them, and still recognize their inadequacies.

 

[barbarian]

I think if you had a genuine fascination with other peoples' attitudes, you would be capable of exploring and (ultimately) understanding why some people view these things a bit differently to you.

Of course I understand why people think differently to me. I do find it interesting that people are faced with a choice between being happy and unhappy about a thing, and opt for the latter.

It's understandable why you would do that, but I don't think it's a great way to be.
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[Lorenzo]

Of course I understand why people think differently to me. I do find it interesting that people are faced with a choice between being happy and unhappy about a thing, and opt for the latter.

It's understandable why you would do that, but I don't think it's a great way to be.
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This merely shows that you don't really understand it at all.

 

[Derpus]

I guess we should play minnow teams a lot more and tier 1 sides a lot less, then. That way you'll be able to thoroughly enjoy every test, right?

I'd rather play the better teams despite the risk of losing, certainly.

Although, i'd happily play the All Blacks less. We won't ever compete with them on a level consistent enough to warrant three tests a year.

 

[KOB1987]

I have a foot in both camps. I enjoy watching us win and celebrate when we do, but I also want us to strive for improvement and excellence and I’m not content with where we are at right now. But I’ll watch every game and I’ll continue to support the team through these lows. I want to see us improve against the top tier teams.

I have a little ritual. I have a ‘99 Wallabies jersey that I wear whenever I watch them play, whether that’s at the ground, at the pub or at home with the kids. If we win I wear it the next day as well, so in yesterday’s instance I wore it all day.

 

[barbarian]

I have a foot in both camps. I enjoy watching us win and celebrate when we do, but I also want us to strive for improvement and excellence and I’m not content with where we are at right now.

I think it's fair to say nobody is content with the current situation, KOB. You can support the team without being totally delusional!!

 

[Lorenzo]

We all 'support' the team. Anyone taking the time to discuss things at length here is about as rusted on a supporter as there is, given that so many Australians have turned off entirely.

 

[dru]

@barbar - for the record I don't think you were building strawmen.

Look my concern is that I want to see the game grow and prosper. I just don't see a lot of progress with our performances in the RC, including that last game (particularly that game). I just don't see it as realistic to be trumpeting a cluster of a game even if they did claw it back.

In terms of enjoyment I definitely got much much more of that from watching Easts (Brisbane) and now the Q Country and B City. The "point" is that rugby is my chosen sport (I presume that doesn't need debating here?) and the Wallabies are meant to be the pinnacle of that sport as an Aussie. So I watch and hope, but I'll call rubbish when that is what they are.

Serious improvement is required to get to adequate. And when that apparent ingredient missing was "heart" then those overpaid reps can take a bit of legitimate criticsm. There is not likely to be any real going forward until they recognise a few things.

I think positive feed back from the fan base after that is an error. Just my 2c.

 

[Up the Guts]

There's been a lot of spotlight on the administration and coaching strategies and structures this RC (and rightfully so) but I think our struggles have been exacerbated by a simultaneous form slump in key positions. Guys like Beale, Coleman, and Taf have been way below their best while many others have not been able to replicate the form that got them the jersey in the first place (Koroibete, Hodge, Fainga'a etc.).

When these guys get their mojo back I'm confident we'll be amongst the top teams. We might not be able to dominate unless the underlying issues are solved but we've got the talent to be a World Cup finalist. I'm hopeful that the going so close to the brink in Argentina might spark a resurgence in the form of some our players.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Of course I understand why people think differently to me. I do find it interesting that people are faced with a choice between being happy and unhappy about a thing, and opt for the latter.

It's understandable why you would do that, but I don't think it's a great way to be.
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Hey, Barbarian, serious question. Are you getting enjoyment out of the Sydney and NSW Country teams' efforts in the NRC? I will be quite impressed if you say you are, given their altogether disappointing tournaments to date.