Wobblies kicking coach

[Blue]

Van Straaten is a great choice.

Why do you say that? Just curious. If he adds value, by all means.

As a player he was a very good kicker (even though that was all eh was able to do).

Maybe Paarl can tell us if Braam had had much coaching experience? I am not aware of any. Anyway, the Wobs won't employ the guy if they don't think he is good so clearly he has made a big impression.

The irony is that an ex Bok flyhalf helped Beale land that kick on Saturday

 

[Lindommer]

Yer probably right, fp, I have no objection to Dingo coaching Australia. There've been so many interchanges between Australian and New Zealand rugby it's difficult to be surly about taking another one. But on the issue of kicking I think Australian rugby in general could do a lot better using AFL assistance to improve our skills. We've used league extensively over the last few decades to improve our defence, why not AFL for our kicking skills?

 

[fatprop]

It is interesting to see the different approach between Henry and Deans to their support staff

Henry has Smith and Hansen, two guys with vast experience, Deans seems go for far less experienced guys.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

don't believe it. A decade ago Australian Rugby was acclaimed for being the 'smartest' team. Now those players are no longer playing, why can't we tap into them? In fairness I guess we have through Williams and Pato to a lessor degree. But the likes of Foley, Darwin, Larkham, Burke, Grey etc should all be considered before another foreigner I reckon.

Bloody foreigners. THEY TOOK OUR JOBS.

[video=youtube;KLni3wbndls]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLni3wbndls[/video]

They tooook aarrrr jaaaaaaarbs

If the Aussie candidates, like the ones you outline, are a, available and b, interested we'd be fools not to consider them. But if neither of those things are true then I don't see the problem with looking overseas. Do we only buy Australian made cars?

 

[fatprop]

Yer probably right, fp, I have no objection to Dingo coaching Australia. There've been so many interchanges between Australian and New Zealand rugby it's difficult to be surly about taking another one. But on the issue of kicking I think Australian rugby in general could do a lot better using AFL assistance to improve our skills. We've used league extensively over the last few decades to improve our defence, why not AFL for our kicking skills?

To me there is two parts, the first being technical (how to kick) and second tactical (where and when to kick).

An AFL guy can certainly help with the technical stuff, but when it comes to say the third or forth kick return in forces back the Boks have some great tactical acumen; and that isn't part of our game's structure usually - we are shit at it.

Whether BvS was chosen because of that I have no idea, but I can see that type of input adding real value to the Aus side

 

[Hugh Jarse]

As much as it may go against the grain and ethos of what we old fogies believe, International Sport nowdays is in the entertainment business.

To succeed you get what/who you think is the best to provide the entertainment value needed. This attracts $ from punters to enable you to continue to attract get the performers and coaches and equipment needed and so on.

People pay top dollar to be entertained by Cirque du Soleil, consequently they can scour the world for the best clowns, acrobats, jugglers etc.

The Americas Cup winning Swiss team uses Swiss money and little else. Most of the movers and shakers who win the cup for the Swiss are Kiwis, Yanks and Aussies. The cattle involved are happy that they can ply their trade at the top level. As a proud and historic nautical power, the Swiss probably do not give a fig about who won the America's Cup, or even if they are actually in the cup.

Coming back to rugby. If no one within Club Wallaby is able to produce the goods, then why not import the required providers. We adopt and australianise tactics, techniques and equipment from around the world. Our coaches ply their trade around the world to upgrade their skills to make them more attractive for better gigs (and better paychecks/responsibility).

We have used cross coders before (Muggleton from league teaching Wallaby defence), so I see no problem with AFL teaching kicking to ARU.

 

[RedsHappy]

It is interesting to see the different approach between Henry and Deans to their support staff. Henry has Smith and Hansen, two guys with vast experience, Deans seems go for far less experienced guys.

Spot on fp! And the latter support coaches have proved themselves way less than competent. Foley's departure was the first serious mistake, we now have (generally) mediocre forwards play (bar Pocock, but that's absolute talent and mental strength, not coaching, and bar Sharpe), and our backs, well, in 9 Tests this year, it's been a case of _sustained_ backs excellence via disciplined set plays etc in 2.5 Tests only, England 1 and 1H (and a bit of 2H) Blom and some good (but not for 80 mins) flashes in Boks Brisbane. Our defence (where Australia used to be outstanding) and tackling depth continues to rot (top defence coach desperately needed) away, our kicking has been (generally, over 9 Tests) haphazard and lost us 1 key Test in Sydney. RD has been good at talent promotion and youth risk-taking, but drill down into skills in depth and the above crucial parameters, the excellence and consistency have not been there. Yes, some of it is cattle (old and new), OK, but a lot is down to poor specialist coaching, or (defence and kicking) the complete absence of specialists. A final note: I think I'm correct in saying: Williams and Graham only ever coached in (stodgy and set-piece driven) NH conditions, and neither coached at Test level or ever in Australia. This has to be significant in terms of what we see in the Wallabies coaching capability today. And how any of it correlates to the original early 2008 JO'N-stated KPI of the Wallabies quickly moving to a w-l ratio of 70+%, I will never know.

 

[RedsHappy]

don't believe it. A decade ago Australian Rugby was acclaimed for being the 'smartest' team. Now those players are no longer playing, why can't we tap into them? In fairness I guess we have through Williams and Pato to a lessor degree. But the likes of Foley, Darwin, Larkham, Burke, Grey etc should all be considered before another foreigner I reckon.

Not sure I totally agree about the foreigners part (and sometimes great players do not equate to great coaches as you know), but otherwise, absolutely. We are completely under-using these types of guys in both S14 and Wallabies coaching and support infrastructure.

Just for example: I cannot believe that Campo and Ella say could not do a better job than the hapless Graham (whom I think only ever played 7s?) whom has achieved virtually nothing in 18 months in back line and 'skills' excellence. Yes, these guys might be a tad 'yesterday' but Austin's history of back line vids powerfully show how incredibly relevant their 'back line intelligence and design-of-smart-play' is today, just as much, perhaps more!

Burke: get him into intensive workshops with our boys for the high-ball handling and restart skills.

Foley: we can see the mark of the madness of his late 2008 departure today, the forwards are not improving at the desired rate. I would seduce him back on bended knee immediately, on higher pay.

Larkham: similar comments to Ella and Campo.

It doesn't have to be full-time coaching positions for these wonderful, historically proven, resources we have, it can be workshops, part-time skills mentoring, specialist assistance at training, etc., and elite advisory support group, etc.

It's an absolute travesty RR that we are not being more innovative in using the true historical depth of great Australian rugby talent. If the ARU had any real clue as to how to genuinely get the Wallabies to the desired 70+% w-l ratio (their target not mine), they would be doing something similar to our suggestions here. It's called the intelligent marshalling of the very best resources you have.

 

[PaarlBok]

Moses why cant I reply on this thread?
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/forum/threads/5976-Johan-Goosen-Monster-kick

That was in Osfontein, that maroon background you see is the Paul Rosers in all their glory.

Braam will be a excellent kicking coach, himself kick like a bloody donkey on his day and I like his kicking routine on his day.

 

[Gnostic]

Why do you say that? Just curious. If he adds value, by all means.

As a player he was a very good kicker (even though that was all eh was able to do).

Maybe Paarl can tell us if Braam had had much coaching experience? I am not aware of any. Anyway, the Wobs won't employ the guy if they don't think he is good so clearly he has made a big impression.

The irony is that an ex Bok flyhalf helped Beale land that kick on Saturday

I say this purely because IMO he has been employed to teach the technical aspects of kicking. The aspects of tactics etc will remain totally with Deans. If you take that view Van Straaten is the man for the job because his kicking from hand and from place was technically very good.

To coach these aspects doesn't require previous coaching experience IMO.

 

[Blue]

I say this purely because IMO he has been employed to teach the technical aspects of kicking. The aspects of tactics etc will remain totally with Deans. If you take that view Van Straaten is the man for the job because his kicking from hand and from place was technically very good.

To coach these aspects doesn't require previous coaching experience IMO.

OK just thought that maybe you knew something about what the players / staff etc thought of him because I know little about him other than he was the worst 10 ever to wear a bok jersey. Kick he could but that was it.

 

[Gnostic]

Agree with that totally Blue.

It was just the previous comments from the camp regarding how poor the Wallabies were technically with their kicking. Hence the number of kicks that were mis-struck, skewed or in some other way kicked dodgey. This has been a problem throughout Oz Rugby with the good kicker not getting a S14 gig as they generally relied to much on that aspect of their game eg, Dan Parks and Chris Malone. The players who did get the S14 contracts generally had better distribution and running games but were pretty poor with the boot. The only real exception to this rule was Elton Flatley but he spent more time coming back from injury than he did laying unfortunately. The problem with our kickers has a direct parallel with our scrum problems, lack of focus on this aspect of the game by successive National coaches which set the tone for all coaching below that level.

 

[Red Rooster]

Elton Flatley has been doing kicking coaching at the Gold Coast breakers I hear - another option that is not "offshore"

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Had a good boot too, Elton.

 

[PaarlBok]

OK just thought that maybe you knew something about what the players / staff etc thought of him because I know little about him other than he was the worst 10 ever to wear a bok jersey. Kick he could but that was it.

You can add his defense to the kicking. Surely can learn some tricks to the Wallabies.

 

[Blue]

I guess we can only assume that Robbie must have been impressed with him as a "coach" in addition to his knowledge. A good kicker doesn't make a good coach. Not everyone is good at imparting knowledge effectively.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

That is undoubtedly true, Blue. Many great players have made ordinary coaches. Deans must have seen something in van Straaten to bring him into the setup though.

 

[disco]

I think Deans will take care of the backs & skills coaching & leave all the kicking duties to BVS. We all know how tight the ARU have become so I can't see them spending money on BVS & another coach.

 

[Ruggo]

I think Robbie is learning that he can't do it all alone. He himself was a great kicker but it appears that he realises that he just does not have the time to deal with so many aspects of our play and give them the required level of attention.

I realy respect and admire the way he is a hands on coach but he needs to share the load.

 

[qwerty51]

I know little about him other than he was the worst 10 ever to wear a bok jersey. Kick he could but that was it.

Isn't that Morne Steyn?