Which clubs are the Class of 2010 going to?

[Done that]

100% correct. Hills Sports in particular would belt the top colts sides. Especially the Woodies. In all fairness a majority of colts players are gumbies. Cant catch cant pass cant really tackle. People have got to realistic colts is not that hot. Sure you get a couple of class players in each side but the rest are are turning up for the numbers and the special mateship that Union brings to a young mans life.

Man on man across the paddock the Sports High Schools have the best elite young players in the game in both codes.

This is a bit off the subject but look at the recruitment of West Fields Sports High. They are actively going after class youngsters, They won the buchan Shield this year in excellent form destroying the HSHS. They are strengthing all their younger sides.

As for size across the paddock have a go the height weight and speed of these school boy players 100KG 178cm minimum and sub 14s over the 100m. Powerful lads and with the specialised coaching now available to these lads any thing is possible.

Don't be surprised if large clubs such as West Harbour don't start helping out at these schools. Think of the development advantages for a club with a playing roster of Hills Sports. And think of the positive pathway this would present for the players.

Wenty Leagues has a good association with the Hills Sports as does PARRA. THINK ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES

I disagree .
The top schools sides may beat the lower ranked colts teams e.g. Parramatta , but would not beat the top ranked colts teams such as Uni & West Harbour.
If you look through the weekly programmes you will see that the top colts teams have a number of ex 1 XV players from the schools teams & rep teams , who are now 2 years
out of school , & are 2 years further advanced in their development .
Also you will see a large number of players who were in their school 1 XV who do not make it to the top colts team , & are consigned to the colts 2 nd or 3 rd grade sides .
And then there are a significant number of players who do not come through the usual school system , but are amongst the best players in the colts 1 competition.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

100% correct. Hills Sports in particular would belt the top colts sides. Especially the Woodies. In all fairness a majority of colts players are gumbies. Cant catch cant pass cant really tackle. People have got to realistic colts is not that hot. Sure you get a couple of class players in each side but the rest are are turning up for the numbers and the special mateship that Union brings to a young mans life.

Man on man across the paddock the Sports High Schools have the best elite young players in the game in both codes.

This is a bit off the subject but look at the recruitment of West Fields Sports High. They are actively going after class youngsters, They won the buchan Shield this year in excellent form destroying the HSHS. They are strengthing all their younger sides.

As for size across the paddock have a go the height weight and speed of these school boy players 100KG 178cm minimum and sub 14s over the 100m. Powerful lads and with the specialised coaching now available to these lads any thing is possible.

Don't be surprised if large clubs such as West Harbour don't start helping out at these schools. Think of the development advantages for a club with a playing roster of Hills Sports. And think of the positive pathway this would present for the players.

Wenty Leagues has a good association with the Hills Sports as does PARRA. THINK ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES

I think you will find that West Harbour already has an arrangement with Trinity and works fairly well with Hills Sports. Both schools have a number of their players in the West harbour Academy and/or already playing Colts.

 

[Bruce Ross]

100% correct. Hills Sports in particular would belt the top colts sides. Especially the Woodies. In all fairness a majority of colts players are gumbies. Cant catch cant pass cant really tackle. People have got to realistic colts is not that hot. Sure you get a couple of class players in each side but the rest are are turning up for the numbers and the special mateship that Union brings to a young mans life.

Man on man across the paddock the Sports High Schools have the best elite young players in the game in both codes.

What rubbish. I watched Eastwood in the First Colts Grand Final and the idea that they would be "belted" by a team from just one school who would on average be two years their junior is absurd. I am not familiar with how Eastwood players are trained but I know that the players they faced in the Grand Final had typically added at least ten kilos of lean muscle mass since leaving school. And Eastwood were quite competitive in that game.

The "top colts sides" play fast, hard and very physical rugby.

On another matter, I am a great supporter of the public school system but from my frequent contacts with athletes in various sports coming out of the sports high schools, I know that in general those schools do a less than acceptable job of developing their students academically. And that should be the primary focus of the education system.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

What rubbish. I watched Eastwood in the First Colts Grand Final and the idea that they would be "belted" by a team from just one school who would on average be two years their junior is absurd. I am not familiar with how Eastwood players are trained but I know that the players they faced in the Grand Final had typically added at least ten kilos of lean muscle mass since leaving school. And Eastwood were quite competitive in that game.

The "top colts sides" play fast, hard and very physical rugby.

On another matter, I am a great supporter of the public school system but from my frequent contacts with athletes in various sports coming out of the sports high schools, I know that in general those schools do a less than acceptable job of developing their students academically. And that should be the primary focus of the education system.

Hear Hear.

Well said that man.

Some of the so called elite schools are not doing justice to their elite athletes.

 

[Rugbygirl]

Hear Hear.

Well said that man.

Some of the so called elite schools are not doing justice to their elite athletes.

That's why Apo went to Newington. Instead of being churned and burned by a sports high school he went to a school that actually gave a toss about him and his family.

 

[Lindommer]

My earlier mail on 2011 has now been confirmed, The students have formerly finalised scholarship arrangements for Guy Millar (Kings), Matt Hulme (Joeys), Stuart and Scott Goodman ( Barker), and are awaiting two others from non CAS or GPS to sign the dotted line. Another UNI colts premeirship in 2011.

In the 3rds

Well they haven't won the Colts IIIs for the last two years. Last year Gordon pipped them by two points and last week the mighty West Harbour Pirates pups pummelled them 35-12. The Pirates had the bonus point in the bag before half-time, they were up 26-0 before the students worked out how to score. The last 40 minutes were a titanic arm wrestle with Uni having heaps of possession and pounded the WH line, but to little avail. The WH defence was simply awesome. The fascinating thing to watch for a rugby fan was to see Uni completely unable to play outside well-structured rugby. After finding themselves down 26-0 they played well in the set pieces, rucked and mauled well, tackled very correctly but simply couldn't breach the Pirates' defence enough. The pressure told and Uni committed too many knock-ons while on attack, or pushed the final pass forward with a try for the asking.

It's heartening to note there were two boys from Hills Sports HS in the victorious Pirates team. West Harbour will have a very competitive Colts !s next year.

 

[I like to watch]

I think you will find New's loving & caring environment nurtures non descript individuals into schoolboy rugby stars.
apparently none of them got a leg up in consideration of any particular attributes.

 

[Stands]

100% correct. Hills Sports in particular would belt the top colts sides. Especially the Woodies. In all fairness a majority of colts players are gumbies. Cant catch cant pass cant really tackle. People have got to realistic colts is not that hot. Sure you get a couple of class players in each side but the rest are are turning up for the numbers and the special mateship that Union brings to a young mans life.

Man on man across the paddock the Sports High Schools have the best elite young players in the game in both codes.

This is a bit off the subject but look at the recruitment of West Fields Sports High. They are actively going after class youngsters, They won the buchan Shield this year in excellent form destroying the HSHS. They are strengthing all their younger sides.

As for size across the paddock have a go the height weight and speed of these school boy players 100KG 178cm minimum and sub 14s over the 100m. Powerful lads and with the specialised coaching now available to these lads any thing is possible.

Don't be surprised if large clubs such as West Harbour don't start helping out at these schools. Think of the development advantages for a club with a playing roster of Hills Sports. And think of the positive pathway this would present for the players.

Wenty Leagues has a good association with the Hills Sports as does PARRA. THINK ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES

You have no idea. No school team would contest a final 4 2nd's Colts team let alone the majority of 1st Colts teams. Go and watch a few competitive Colts games before you make such a ridiculous call.

 

[bdp]

thankyou stand well put.

 

[baldingwingforward]

Sorry Skullring - you've still not convinced me. I have been involved with coaching in both competitions and whilst some players would handle it quite easily, others would struggle. In a team context eg Newington this year, whilst their star players (2,8,12) would be fine, some of the others in the team would struggle and get really shown up at that next level up. They were a great team this year but they did have some weaknesses which they were able to cover up through the excellence of other players. As to their backrow being good enough for colts... You're dreaming! Luani no problem (although probably not as an 8), but the other 2 would be way off the pace. Gordon for instance had McCaffrey and Dempsey - they would eat Baldwin and Pryor Lees for breakfast!

To suggest Roods would carve up at 1st Colts level... Ludicrous! Seeing players do well against other schoolboys does not mean that they would do the same at Colts level. Even Apo would probably struggle once he was up against players who could not only tackle him but smash him in the process.

It will be interesting to see where all the players end up next year - but as always there will be plenty of highly rated schoolboy players who struggle to make 2nd Colts let alone get anywhere near standing out in 1st Colts!

 

[I like to watch]

Sorry Skullring - you've still not convinced me. I have been involved with coaching in both competitions and whilst some players would handle it quite easily, others would struggle.
It will be interesting to see where all the players end up next year - but as always there will be plenty of highly rated schoolboy players who struggle to make 2nd Colts let alone get anywhere near standing out in 1st Colts!

BWF, if you have coached both you should be able to explain to me why there is a difference in playing styles.
I am speaking in GENERAL terms, schoolboys play very structured in the forwards and free flowing in the backs. Colts tend to be more concerned about the physical contest.Colts backs tend to play much more one out, backline movements are more stilted. More passes go to ground.
If the backs had the ability to push the ball around & execute backline moves when they were at School, why is it not better when they are colts?
clearly the defence is much stronger and in a lot of cases key defenders are making the correct decisions on plays. Is it purely increased pressure from defenders?

 

[baldingwingforward]

Don't even hide you're an Iggies boy...

Ha ha - NO i just used those two players (Dempsey and McCaffrey) as an example as Gordon didn't make the finals and they had plenty of NSW rep players in their side including those 2. They also had Moss (Knox) who ended up playing 2nds Colts - again another example of the how tough 2nd Colts can be, when you have guys who have played high rep schoolboys and they can't even make the top Colts side. I could have used any school players from CAS/GPS/CHS to illustrate the quality that some Colts sides have.

A couple of years ago Sydney Uni Colts had the Aus Schoolboys Openside breakaway (ACT lad can't remember his name) playing in Colts 2s - he never cracked their Colts 1 side!

And people still want to argue that Schoolboy sides could make the finals in Colts... No chance!

 

[Eyes and Ears]

I've watched both for years now, and I rate the the utmost echelon of schoolboy sides (SAC, Hills, TKS, New) fairly evenly with the 2nd to 6th placed colts teams, lets not forget that the average age of colts is probably just under the 19 years mark, alot of clubs have under 17s in their colts teams, just like school teams, and the best players normally bypass colts in their 20th year to go to grade, as well as some players skipping it competely (Normally backs). Working in schools favour is the fact that they train so much together and are around each other so much, that they often work as more of a cohesive unit in the forwards, tighter and more well drilled than some of the colts teams I'd say. If we look at Kings backrow of 6. Killingworth (AUS) 7. Connor (AUS) 8. Kent (GPS ones) i think it's safe to say that that would probably be the most dominant backrow in this year's colts competition. The Kings all Australia frontrow would also probably surpass anything colts has to offer, and would be an interesting scrum battle seeing them pitted against the likes of Lamont at Uni. Aside from Newington's which was still a distant second, the TKS front row is probably in a league of its own though, and certainly the average front row of a first grade colts team far and away outmucles anything the 16-18 year olds in schoolboy footy can muster. On to the Newington backline, in particular the Apo Latinipulu (AUS) and Brogan Roods (NSW 2) combination, very big strapping lads and I am struggling to find a more impressive centre pairing than that in colts. Manly's pairing of 12. Gilmore 13. Hughes comes close, especially on the days that Mali Hingano came in at outside, and Gordon's 10. Henry Carmichael 12. Trent Lake, is probably better than anything in schoolboy footy, aside from maybe Hills sports 10. Gerard Maccullum 12, Junior Nuitio. West Harbour and Randwick would far and away eclipse any schoolboy team when it comes to outside backs. Second row is where colts surpasses schoolboy footy, and the fact that clubs have such a wide player area to pull from, in terms of finding boys with a bit of height, on top of the fact that their lineout jumpers have had an extra year or two to mature in height. Second rowers like Dennis Watson from Warringah , Alfred Pinomi from Wests, Evan Olstmead from Gordon and Tom Heslop from Uni would walk into the schoolboy rep teams of this year, but 2 years prior, would probably have not shone at all.

I find it hard to believe a side that could lose to a weak Joeys team could compete with S-F Colts teams. I really don't know how you can compare the ability of a schoolboy front-row to Colts given that the scrum is effectively de-powered with limited pushing and no wheeling. Schoolboy rugby is much slower than Colts rugby where speed really counts and that is at the breakdown.

 

[lily]

Ha ha - NO i just used those two players (Dempsey and McCaffrey) as an example as Gordon didn't make the finals and they had plenty of NSW rep players in their side including those 2. They also had Moss (Knox) who ended up playing 2nds Colts - again another example of the how tough 2nd Colts can be, when you have guys who have played high rep schoolboys and they can't even make the top Colts side. I could have used any school players from CAS/GPS/CHS to illustrate the quality that some Colts sides have.

A couple of years ago Sydney Uni Colts had the Aus Schoolboys Openside breakaway (ACT lad can't remember his name) playing in Colts 2s - he never cracked their Colts 1 side!

And people still want to argue that Schoolboy sides could make the finals in Colts... No chance!

Chris Harkins.

 

[baldingwingforward]

If the backs had the ability to push the ball around & execute backline moves when they were at School, why is it not better when they are colts? clearly the defence is much stronger and in a lot of cases key defenders are making the correct decisions on plays. Is it purely increased pressure from defenders?

I don't necessarily agree with your observation that there is more dropped ball in Colts, but you have hit the nail on the head with the increased pressure in defence at Colts level, and in particular key defenders making better defensive decisions.

IMO - at schoolboy level it is rare that you will have a very strong 7, 10,12,13, all in the same team. Invariably there will be a weakness somewhere along that axis, and if it is somewhere between 10,12,13, then that creates A LOT of holes in the defensive line. Flashy backline moves merely expose these weaknesses and positional frailties. How many flash moves do you see run at an elite level? Answer not that many - for the simple reason that a smart defender is rarely suckered in and will defend the move anyway.

It also depends on which defensive system the coach chooses to employ - i would argue that a lot teams employ the rush defence when their players are not that suited to it. One missed tackle and you have a clean line break... A lot of school coaches will often have to play players out of position because they are filling gaps in personnel and simply doing the best with the players at their disposal. You will often see a lot of coaches put convert backrowers to centres - this is fine with the ball in hand, but it is often these players who get sucked in in defence and leave gaping holes!

Whereas at 1st Colts level, as long as the recruitment has been good, you will normally have very good players in all of those key defensive positions, i.e. 7, 10, 12 and 13. (If you don't you are going to struggle anyway.) If they are well coached and make good defensive decisions, all of a sudden where there was a lot of space at Schoolboy level, there suddenly isn't any. Add to that the physicality of the tackle and the subsequent breakdown contest and players who looked like superstars at school level (against some pretty poorly structured/average defence) suddenly struggle to assert themselves. Obviously that is when you see the real cream rise to the top.

 

[Rugbygirl]

Sorry Skullring - you've still not convinced me. I have been involved with coaching in both competitions and whilst some players would handle it quite easily, others would struggle. In a team context eg Newington this year, whilst their star players (2,8,12) would be fine, some of the others in the team would struggle and get really shown up at that next level up. They were a great team this year but they did have some weaknesses which they were able to cover up through the excellence of other players. As to their backrow being good enough for colts... You're dreaming! Luani no problem (although probably not as an 8), but the other 2 would be way off the pace. Gordon for instance had McCaffrey and Dempsey - they would eat Baldwin and Pryor Lees for breakfast!

I agree with baldingwingforward on this. Baldwin is only Year 11 and Prior Lees is only Year 10. They can't possibly match it with guys who are 19 or 20.

 

[Spewn]

Can someone explain what the point is about a schoolboy team apparently being able to beat a colts team? Does it mean the boys should bypass colts and go straight into Super rugby? What an absurd discussion.

 

[baldingwingforward]

Finally something sensible on the discussion - well done Spewn.

TBH - it was only Berries and Skullring who were delusional about it! Most others were fairly balanced in their observations.

As always - some schoolboys will get a very nasty shock next year when they roll up to club training and proceed to get smashed when for the past couple of seasons they have been worshipped at their school. Always good fun to watch!

 

[Lindommer]

Schoolboy rugby>Colts? Let me give you a pointed example:

Michael Ala'alatoa played Is for Newington 2007-09, GPS IIIs in year 10 and later Is; he now plays THP for West Harbour Colts Is and has done quite a bit of work in the gym since leaving school last year. Allan Ala'alatoa (younger brother) is in year 11 at Newington and played in their champion team this year. He played GPS reps somewhere and was also in the NSW Schools under 16 team last week. Allan's got the potential to be a very, very good prop, I'd say LHP due to his height. But if Newington Is played West Harbour Colts Is this week the older Ala'alatoa would murder the younger. And this line could be extended through every matchup between a schoolboy player (or team) and a colts side in Sydney. I'd also like to point out here the Hills SH players in colts mostly aren't good enough to play Is, apart from Steve Cummins.

Anyone who says a good schoolboy side could match it with a colts side needs to get out more.

 

[bdp]

mate big michael was playing colts 2s and was moved to ones due to injury