Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

[zer0]

Do you think there is serious thought being given to Rugby's future in NZ or is it all too hard?

Of course there's serious thought about the future. It's why All Black tests are taken to Japan, why the Sunwolves were introduced and why they were shielded form the cut. Should it come to it, the NZRU likely sees Japan as South Africa's replacement. Maybe, even Australia's too. Though that would be an extreme situation, I think. Albeit one that some on here seem to want to eventuate, for whatever reason(s).

In saying that, I doubt that Sri Lanka and Korea feature in any NZRU plans. I think, then, that this Indo-Pacific competition will hold little appeal to the NZRU in its current/proposed format. A modified version where the chaff are removed could appeal, however.

 

[Dan54]

Dan and Zero, are you saying there's nothing in it for NZ full stop? Or in the remaining years of Super Rugby?


Do you think there is serious thought being given to Rugby's future in NZ or is it all too hard?

No Brumby, I just saying there nothing in it for NZ rugby now, if in a few years it could be tied up some way with Super rugby or something ,it could be of some interest. I in no way trying to down play the comp, but NZ have Mitre 10 cup , so it best to leave this one alone at this stage.

 

[Aurelius]

So, when I heard Forrest was going to launch a six-team Indo-Pacific comp against Super Rugby, I was thinking, "Yes. Sterling Archer-style rampage against the ARU, bring it on!" But it's been obvious for days now that it wasn't going to work out like that, and it's not hard to see why. In order for such a comp to work, he'd have to press on without either ARU or IRB approval, find five or so other countries who'd be willing to rebel with him, recruit enough players to risk their existing international/provincial careers to play in it, find broadcasters and naming-rights sponsors for an unproven concept, and do it all so that it was set to go by March or April next year.

Then he'd have to hope like hell that it at least broke even in its first season, going up against an established competition, or else it would lose whatever credibility it had in the first place.

So, running it after Super Rugby definitely makes sense. Don't get me wrong, it bugs me like hell that Force fans will have to wait until August to see our team in action, and despite what the ARU thinks, I'm simply not going to transfer my support to some other Super Rugby team. Still, RugbyWA can schedule the Premier Grade to fit around the IPRC so at least club supporters have something to follow, and hopefully talk of exhibition matches beforehand is more than just talk (and if the ARU's genuine about supporting this venture, they'd arrange for Fox Sports to broadcast them).

Basically, I'm not as excited about what I've read today as I was a couple of weeks ago, but I'm not nearly as despondent as I was a month ago either. What's being proposed isn't ideal, but it's a lot better than the infinite darkness that the ARU would have consigned us to quite happily without Forrest's intervention.

And since half has already posted one Mick Jagger song, why not make it two?

 

[BLR]

So I will ask you this? What more could you want for the Force from this situation? I hate any team being cut but if it deliverers a future for Aussie rugby as a whole ...

TBH, I (and I probably wouldn't be alone amongst Force supporters) would prefer a comp that would go head to head with Super Rugby. I don't want our players going to the Rebels or whoever. Bugger them and bugger Australian rugby.

I have travelled all over the world supporting the Wallabies but after this bs I found myself watching the Wallabies games this season and just being depressed. It isn't a team for us anymore and I don't think a mickey mouse comp will solve the resentment.

8 months with no rugby to support is dire in anyones language and 'better than 12 months' isn't really comfort.

 

[Killer]

TBH, I (and I probably wouldn't be alone amongst Force supporters) would prefer a comp that would go head to head with Super Rugby. I don't want our players going to the Rebels or whoever. Bugger them and bugger Australian rugby.

I have travelled all over the world supporting the Wallabies but after this bs I found myself watching the Wallabies games this season and just being depressed. It isn't a team for us anymore and I don't think a mickey mouse comp will solve the resentment.

8 months with no rugby to support is dire in anyones language and 'better than 12 months' isn't really comfort.

Same BLR, first time I have watched the Wallabies without any emotional engagement. I enjoyed the rugby and the event but didn't mind who won. Strangely too I had no idea of the time remaining as winning had no interest. I didn't anticipate this, I thought I would care. I will never see the Wallabies the same again and that won't change. I'm sure we are not alone. Crowds will be interesting in the future, why pay $160 x 2 to see 2 teams play that you don't support as such. Better to sit on the bank and watch the Spirit or Club teams.

 

[Sully]

Yes, I think the ARU may have won the battle but they definitely lost the war!

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Same BLR, first time I have watched the Wallabies without any emotional engagement. I enjoyed the rugby and the event but didn't mind who won. Strangely too I had no idea of the time remaining as winning had no interest. I didn't anticipate this, I thought I would care. I will never see the Wallabies the same again and that won't change. I'm sure we are not alone. Crowds will be interesting in the future, why pay $160 x 2 to see 2 teams play that you don't support as such. Better to sit on the bank and watch the Spirit or Club teams.

Bottom line I could see this Indo pacific comp succeeding if they throw a lot of money at it. Hence wonder if twiggy got alisports or jack Ma as one of the backers.


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[mst]

Of course there's serious thought about the future. It's why All Black tests are taken to Japan, why the Sunwolves were introduced and why they were shielded form the cut. Should it come to it, the NZRU likely sees Japan as South Africa's replacement. Maybe, even Australia's too. Though that would be an extreme situation, I think. Albeit one that some on here seem to want to eventuate, for whatever reason(s).

In saying that, I doubt that Sri Lanka and Korea feature in any NZRU plans. I think, then, that this Indo-Pacific competition will hold little appeal to the NZRU in its current/proposed format. A modified version where the chaff are removed could appeal, however.

I thunk the Japan horse has bolted somewhat. Between the Japaneses feeling nervous about crowds for the RWC and the not-so-good Super Rugby experience which they appeas to be hanging in with (due to necessity with the RWC) than keen on I think the NZRU are left with a broke basket-case ARU and the Argentine's.

The Japaneses market will close off effectively over the next 3 years as it positions for the usual combination of patriotic and general RWC marketing.

The NZRU may have a good product but now have the issue of finding decent opposition and a market to sell the product. Everybody else is in motion except the NZRU. The other key concern is will they have the same allies in Aussie rugby in the future as the ARU gets shaken up?

Mitre10 isn't much on a bargaining chip or fall back. Even with its current TV deal its just breaking even without competition and limiting.

 

[tragic]

A parallel comp to Super Rugby with the force playing the Australian teams in their bye weeks would have been a much more entertaining option for me. Especially if the force players remained wallabies eligible and they retained a lot of their current roster
Much more likely to watch a reds - force game in a bye week than an all NZ or all SAF derby (or a tahs game )
Hope it works but hard to get excited about it.

 

[chibimatty]

I actually thought this may have been a summer rugby comp with the Perth games being played at night while the other teams are in winter.

I still favour a Top-League base for the competition, almost like the other teams would be HK, Sri Lanka, the Pacific Islands, Korea and anyone else viable in the region. From there the finals could crossover with the Top-League sides. Seeing as the Japanese teams have restrictions on foreigners, the home-grown residents XVs from the international sides would be able to compete with them.

How this works financially though, I have no idea.

 

[dru]

SO far Twiggy has shown that he is serious, that he understands compromise, that he has interest.

But details remain sketchy on who, when, draw system, travel, integration into the general rugby season etc.

Those who were thinking he would be happy to simply divert the intent of the comp to suit the ARU have not proven correct. The two comps do not seem ideally positioned for a future B Plan involving a domestic comp.

About the best we have is that
a) there will be a rugby comp that features Perth from 2018, this has it's naysayers but progress looks good and determination is palpable.
b) presuming Super fails by 2020 (and that is actually an early call no matter how much I would agree with it), there should be another comp for consideration in the rebuilding of rugby.

 

[TOCC]

He is sponsoring the NRC for around $200k/annum starting immediately, that's what Buildcorp were last paying as well. There's some interesting compromise going on that's for sure

 

[Boof1050]

200k/annum I wonder if that's less than the 50 mill he was going to stump up?

 

[BLR]

200k/annum I wonder if that's less than the 50 mill he was going to stump up?

They also got $2m for ten years with $500k going to fund the Rebels from the Victorian Government. All going into their coffers, none of this grassroots bs Twiggy was on about.

 

[chibimatty]

Almost wonder if he didn't offer his 50 million to the VRU to buy the Rebels' license.

 

[barbarian]

Yes, I think the ARU may have won the battle but they definitely lost the war!

Really? I'd suggest the reverse.

They have won the war here. They have eliminated the Force, and now the debate has shifted past 'Bring back the Force' to 'How can we keep the Force alive in another way?'.

There is pain in WA, and while the Forrest move won't end that, it will certainly help to minimise it as much as possible.

Meanwhile the ARU have secured additional NRC funding and a new competition pathway for players. On top of the $6m they save each year from ending the Force.

If I were Cameron Clyne I'd be sleeping a lot easier now than I was two weeks ago.
.

 

[Brumby Runner]

No Brumby, I just saying there nothing in it for NZ rugby now, if in a few years it could be tied up some way with Super rugby or something ,it could be of some interest. I in no way trying to down play the comp, but NZ have Mitre 10 cup , so it best to leave this one alone at this stage.

Thanks Dan, am I right in saying then that you think Super Rugby will survive in some format after the current deal finishes in 2020?

 

[Strewthcobber]

Twiggy yesterday

"I do intend, with the players here and other experts, with those who are global authorities on how to entertain large crowds of people so that a game can be played for the audience, therefore plays for the great investors behind the game and the great investors behind the game get in behind the players," he said.

"It is if you like a happy circle of collaboration but where we may increase the number of points for a try, we may encourage faster, running game, a much more continuous running game, we'll certainly be adding in music, 7-a-side, women's rugby, all throughout the afternoon of IPRC.

"We will be certainly providing on-field entertainment, we will be taking the cues from American college rugby where you'll have a bigger audience turnout than we actually get in the Australian Football League grand final and there can be even more people in the carparks as there are in the stadium.

"It doesn't matter if your team wins or loses, you will have an afternoon which is one to remember, you'll look back on the afternoon and say 'That was a great afternoon' even if your team didn't win.

 

[TOCC]

Really? I'd suggest the reverse.

They have won the war here. They have eliminated the Force, and now the debate has shifted past 'Bring back the Force' to 'How can we keep the Force alive in another way?'.

There is pain in WA, and while the Forrest move won't end that, it will certainly help to minimise it as much as possible.

Meanwhile the ARU have secured additional NRC funding and a new competition pathway for players. On top of the $6m they save each year from ending the Force.

If I were Cameron Clyne I'd be sleeping a lot easier now than I was two weeks ago.
.

Nah mate.. the war is participation rates, corporate value, ratings and crowds.. all of which have fallen off the cliff... maybe the ARU haven't lost the war, but they've taken a massive beating

 

[BLR]

Nah mate.. the war is participation rates, corporate value, ratings and crowds.. all of which have fallen off the cliff. maybe the ARU haven't lost the war, but they've taken a massive beating

Is that the ARU or Australian Rugby? And judging on what has occurred lately, was for the good of Australian Rugby what the ARU were fighting for? Potentially losing the third largest player base (they aren't doing much to bring that back) and definitely losing swathes of Wallaby supporters may sound like something they wouldn't want but they turned down $50 million of grassroots funding for $20 million of funds going directly into their coffers. I would say they were fighting for a cash injection to keep the ship afloat without changing the way they do business, the way they have done every single misguided expansion. They won the war, which is to keep themselves alive until they can wrangle more funds to keep the heart beating. Anything outside of that I don't think they legitimately show any signs of giving a toss about.