Where to for Super Rugby?

[James Pettifer]

Who didn't think that twenty20 cricket would be as huge a success here as it has been everywhere else? Name some names.

Cricket Australia who sold the rights for $20 million per year.

Channel 9 who didn't buy the rights for $20 million per year when they had the right to do so.

Now it is likely that it will sell the rights for $50-$60 million per year as no one expected that the ratings would be close to 1 million on average.

 

[dru]

I don't think anyone has posted that they enjoy games against SA teams or that they stay up to watch the SA games.

I prefer the Saffer games to the Kiwi games though I think the season's conference system destroys it a bit. It took a while to get to know the teams - I'm guessing that few put in the effort to understand them.

I love the rugby and it's history in South Africa.

Still, I dont mind them splitting off in the interests of common sense, just wish it was possible to watch the Currie Cup here.

 

[Brumby Runner]

A fdew years ago, I'd watch each Super Rugby game involving the SA teams, and could name just about every player in all teams. Have to admit my interest has waned lately and mostly don't bother with their games unless the Brumbies are involved. I do retain my interest however in all games involving only Aus and NZ teams. Also keen on the Jaguares, but not the Sunwolves.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

RN, you really do seem to be in the depths of a depression when it comes to rugby atm. Speaking for myself, I remain very much a fan of the Aussie derbies, even with their quality issues, and I won't miss a match between two NZ sides because of the high quality rugby on show. I do get disappointed with the difference in quality when a NZ side plays an Aussie side, but still tune in hoping to see some glimmer of potential for improvement in the Aussie sides while at the same time still getting to see how rugby should be played at the highest level. I would be very interested in a trans Tasman comp if ever it took off.

Yeah BR I think though that is just limited to Super Rugby though and just complete disappointment of how rugby has evolved at pro level in this country with Super Rugby.

As yes just over it (Super Rugby)....But looking to reignite interest in other areas...eg plan to go to NRC as usually do but also will go to my first shute shield final on 26 August. This season was the first in many a moon did not go to a Tahs game and at this point I think I have now decided to just limit Super Rugby to Foxtel and just focus on other stuff. Nothing new there - just one of the many of thousands lost to Super Rugby somewhat (hey at least will watch on Foxtel although much less games and will fast forward through lot of taped matches).

There is the oz rusted on who will enjoy a match like yourself between 2 NZ sides at Super Rugby level and great you do, which is all good but you are part of smaller minority and if only good rugby you get to watch is b/w 2 NZ Super Rugby sides not for me. As for me with time precious it does not quite as much excite me as if going to watch other sides play each outside of oz side involved prefer to watch at test level, and on latter do, particularly where northern hemisphere sides involved (giving lived in UK for a bit as well).

All the best

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

A fdew years ago, I'd watch each Super Rugby game involving the SA teams, and could name just about every player in all teams. Have to admit my interest has waned lately and mostly don't bother with their games unless the Brumbies are involved. I do retain my interest however in all games involving only Aus and NZ teams. Also keen on the Jaguares, but not the Sunwolves.

Agreed, I have even struggled to watch the highlights show if an Aussie team isnt involved. We differ on the Sunwolves though. They are an exciting team to watch. Kind of like the Cheetahs. They let in a million but score some of the best tries in the comp.

 

[TOCC]

To me the Super Rugby brand has been damage beyond repair, i can't see it making a recovery even with an improvement in the competitiveness of the Australian teams. Forget about culling to 4 teams, that won't save the game in Australia.

 

[daz]

To me the Super Rugby brand has been damage beyond repair, i can't see it making a recovery even with an improvement in the competitiveness of the Australian teams. Forget about culling to 4 teams, that won't save the game in Australia.

Nope, don't agree at all. Winning and success has a way of creating amnesia to history.

If, and it is a huge if, Oz rugby loses a team and then wins a Super Rugby trophy at some point thereafter, or we win a RWC in the next 2 tournaments, (hahaha, sorry, can't keep a straight face saying that), people will completely forget and ignore what is happening now.

 

[TOCC]

Nope, don't agree at all. Winning and success has a way of creating amnesia to history.

If, and it is a huge if, Oz rugby loses a team and then wins a Super Rugby trophy at some point thereafter, or we win a RWC in the next 2 tournaments, (hahaha, sorry, can't keep a straight face saying that), people will completely forget and ignore what is happening now.

Sorry but that ignores the downward trajectory that Super Rugby has been on for the past 10 years, even with Super Rugby Championship in the 2 largest states it's only caused a blip in the downward trend. Cutting a single team won't solve that.

 

[Forcefield]

We need a brave new world. South Africa are going. The writing is on the wall. Still think we need the 8 NRC teams, 14 NZ provincial teams plus x teams (from any combination of Argentina, USA, Canada, Japan, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa) to make two divisions similar to European rugby with pools leading to quarterfinals. It needs to be bold but have integrity. Regression is death and our death will ripple in New Zealand and the Pacific Islands.

 

[Quick Hands]

Sorry but that ignores the downward trajectory that Super Rugby has been on for the past 10 years, even with Super Rugby Championship in the 2 largest states it's only caused a blip in the downward trend. Cutting a single team won't solve that.

That's absolutely correct. Even after winning the thing in 2014, Waratah crowds in 2015 were way below what they were pre-Hickey/Foley.

Waratah home games 2015:
v Force 20,271
v Brumbies 27,243
v Blues 16,342
v Stormers 17,353
v Rebels 15,807
v Sharks 18,578
v Crusaders 26,971
v Reds 26,746

Waratah home games 2005
v Chiefs 30,815
v Stormers 31,184
v Bulls 25,143
v Crusaders 39,363
v Reds 38,220
v Blues 36.031

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_New_South_Wales_Waratahs_season

http://www.nswrugby.com.au/Portals/35/NSWRugby/documents/annual-reports/NSWRU-Annual-Report-2005.PDF

 

[James Pettifer]

So ....

When is the Pro 12 announcement actually happening. It seems to always be happening next week.

The next season is supposed to start in 4 weeks (with the first 6 or so rounds clashing with the Rugby Championship and then with the Europe tour)

Odds on it
- happening this year
- happening next year
- not happening at all

If the third option, then the ARU missed a great way of dropping a team. Promise them a great opportunity somewhere else which then doesn't happen.

 

[Quick Hands]

Nope, don't agree at all. Winning and success has a way of creating amnesia to history.

If, and it is a huge if, Oz rugby loses a team and then wins a Super Rugby trophy at some point thereafter, or we win a RWC in the next 2 tournaments, (hahaha, sorry, can't keep a straight face saying that), people will completely forget and ignore what is happening now.

See post #7830

 

[wamberal]

There are still people who claim that all the problems of the game happened this season, and all because of the ham-fisted way that the culling of a franchise has been handled. Or not handled.


We need to have a clear minded and rational and objective review of where the game is now, and ALL the factors that have contributed to our present somewhat dismal state. As said earlier, this trend probably started in 2007, the most dismal RWC on record.


As I have said, again and again and again, certain factors are within our sphere of influence, and some are not. The ones that are should be put right. As for the ones that are not, some of them are within the sphere of influence of the governing body of the game.

 

[TOCC]

There are still people who claim that all the problems of the game happened this season, and all because of the ham-fisted way that the culling of a franchise has been handled. Or not handled.


We need to have a clear minded and rational and objective review of where the game is now, and ALL the factors that have contributed to our present somewhat dismal state. As said earlier, this trend probably started in 2007, the most dismal RWC on record.


As I have said, again and again and again, certain factors are within our sphere of influence, and some are not. The ones that are should be put right. As for the ones that are not, some of them are within the sphere of influence of the governing body of the game.

and plenty of those factors are with the governing body of the game within Australia... aka the ARU

 

[wamberal]

and plenty of those factors are with the governing body of the game within Australia. aka the ARU

Mmmm. And plenty of those factors are with the world governing body. The most important ones, actually.

 

[Highlander35]

The most important ones, actually.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Leo86]

There are still people who claim that all the problems of the game happened this season, and all because of the ham-fisted way that the culling of a franchise has been handled. Or not handled.


We need to have a clear minded and rational and objective review of where the game is now, and ALL the factors that have contributed to our present somewhat dismal state. As said earlier, this trend probably started in 2007, the most dismal RWC on record.


As I have said, again and again and again, certain factors are within our sphere of influence, and some are not. The ones that are should be put right. As for the ones that are not, some of them are within the sphere of influence of the governing body of the game.

I dont think anyone is claiming the problems happened this season, this season just happened to be the end result of many shit decisions that at the end of the day are made by those governing.

Im not pissed at the way culling has been handled, Im pissed that culling is the solution. We all know the reasons for and against. Im in the camp of long term results, growth (players and fans), maintaining national footprint. Not because my team is in the firing line, but because Rugby is a great game that should be shared.

Theres only 2 reasons we are here.

Financial, which there are numerous ways the ARU could of resolved or at least attempted to resolve before going to Cull/Kill/remove growing markets. I think our leadership failed.

or

The ARU were bullied - Most likely scenario in which case if they are not there for the good of Aus rugby they shouldnt be there.

more people = more money(crowds, broadcast,sponsors). People are turning away, Why?

-Culture of the ARU
-Expansion to 2 other continents
-Ridiculous 4 conference system (conference systems can work if done correctly)
-Results (removing a team in the long term will not help in growing depth)
-Cost (attending, pay tv)
-Promotion/advertisement

 

[Slim 293]

Mmmm. And plenty of those factors are with the world governing body. The most important ones, actually.

And let's see......... what are the most important ones?

 

[Highlander35]

And let's see... what are the most important ones?

Wamb continuously says:

The Laws

&

The lack of formal process for international player transfers

Any further analysis beyond that simply reveals he thinks the ARU should have at bare minimum, the same control over Rugby as the ACA does over the Cricket, and preferably, the NRL and AFL do over their games, and as a consequence, without these controls, the ARU should effectively be immune to any substantial criticism.

Of course, he fails to acknowledge the fact that a formal transfer system is something to be crafted, pushed for, and embraced by the Union/Club that sells players, and that while I agree that the Laws could do with some condensing (and clearly World Rugby does too, seeking Drafts of such) they've not prevented growth elsewhere: it's a fundamentally Australian problem.

 

[Gnostic]

That's absolutely correct. Even after winning the thing in 2014, Waratah crowds in 2015 were way below what they were pre-Hickey/Foley.



Waratah home games 2015:

v Force 20,271

v Brumbies 27,243

v Blues 16,342

v Stormers 17,353

v Rebels 15,807

v Sharks 18,578

v Crusaders 26,971

v Reds 26,746



Waratah home games 2005

v Chiefs 30,815

v Stormers 31,184

v Bulls 25,143

v Crusaders 39,363

v Reds 38,220

v Blues 36.031



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_New_South_Wales_Waratahs_season



http://www.nswrugby.com.au/Portals/35/NSWRugby/documents/annual-reports/NSWRU-Annual-Report-2005.PDF

Spot on QH. You'll remember I posted a serious article/rant asking why the Tahs despite the playing ranks over the years and numerous coaches including the RWC winning Dwyer and other very well respected coaches have failed. The answers I opined at the time were poo pooed by most, though now seem to be gaining traction. That of Mismanagement, poor entitlement culture and poor designed KPI/expectation management (which I'd argue led directly to the Foley/Hickey idea of playing to statistics which showed they won so many games).

The perpetuation of the myth of running rugby in Australia when the closest we have come to a complete running game was the Macqueen plan of constant recycle. The "Great Randwick Running Game" was never that, it was based on a complete very well executed kicking game and counter attacking leading to memorable counter runs that stick in the memory. Nobody remembers Knox and Campo kicking the leather off the thing all day pinning their opposition back in their own half before unleashing with pace and handling when the defensive line was broken up.

So we get a "running" game but play for statistics and even the hard core is confused and demoralised by it. How about they try and play a complete and skilfull rugby game, you know execute things like passes and kicks. No lets go the route of selecting school kids (Beale) who have unbelievable natural talent, but never play against men and old heads in club land before running on for the Tahs and never really performing consistently, lets select and pay for League stars who do or don't perform but never produce a complete game for their position. What does this do? Entitlement, and the fans turn off and go and watch the amateur game. The Tahs now get far less people watching than are actually involved with the game at other levels, forget converting non rugby people, they can't even hold onto those who already support the game, and this is now also the case with the Wallabies.